Cat show photography

[dkperez]

I'm probably in the wrong place, but I don't seen anywhere in theCatSite that'd be any closer, so please feel free to move this......

I'm interested in cat show photography. Not the technical or nuts-and-bolts as much as the business aspects. Can anyone here point me at a forum where there would be useful discussions of the various aspects of being a show photographer? BTW: I've looked at the information on Helmi Flick, and Chanan,
and Tetsu Yamazaki, but I'm looking for a place where I can get questions answered about the business...

Thanks.

 

[goldenkitty45]

I'm not sure where to direct you. I guess that the best place would be contact some local clubs and ask for vender space at the show - tell them you are a pet photographer and would like to have a spot.

If your pictures are good, people will come to you. I would offer a nice "show package" with reasonable rates - not too high/low - give a "show discount" price with a few bucks off the pictures.

And display your VERY best shots - if you don't you won't get much business. I was at a show with a nice photographer, but what she was displying was not any better then the candid shots I can take at home with my own camera. Not very "profession" IMO and I don't think she got much business.

 

[dkperez]

Actually, in this case it's not the mechanics of things... I've got the equipment, and I'm a pretty fair photographer with a good knowledge of lighting. And, I've spent hours working with my cats to get a good understanding of light, shadow, and what makes a flattering image...

My questions are around the "business" parts of things - the area where most of us "non-professionals" get things wrong... Like:

If you're going to be the show photographers for a national show, are you a benefit offered by the show or are you just a vendor? If the former, I presume the show covers travel expenses, booth, and so on. If you're just a vendor I presume you're paying all your own expenses, and the pricing reflects this.

And what does the show do in advance to help the exhibitors get scheduled for sittings. Given the hectic nature of cat shows, I'm guessing that exhibitors would value being able to do portrait sitting before the show starts in the morning, and after things end for the day. So, how do you get exhibitors registered and scheduled for the sittings?

And, of course, products and pricing. What do you offer to exhibitors? What do exhibitors want for photographic products? I presume there's a sitting fee, and probably some kind of take-away media (CD or equivalent) that an exhibitor can purchase to evaluate images and make decisions about purchasing prints? And, of course, prints. What other products are of interest to exhibitors?

And so on....... I'm looking for a place to get information from the folks that would be purchasing the services, so I avoid as many of the really stupid mistakes as possible.

 

[goldenkitty45]

Well I can give you the photographer that took my two Ocicat boys pictures - he's really good. Not sure if he can answer any of your questions. He's usually up here at several of the shows I attend.

Click on my name for a private message to send me and I'll give you his website. I could not really answer all your questions you've asked.

As far as I know, if the shows ask the photographer, they don't pay the expenses. That's still the photographer's responsibility to cover that. Not sure how they factor into the prices. And most times, if you want the photographer to take your cat's pictures, you just sign up on a sheet in order and sometime at the show you check to see if you can get your cat in. Once in awhile, the photographer may come in on Friday night and offer exhibitors to get the cats done before the show.

I've always just gotten them done either Saturday or Sunday as I'm available. Most have a package of picking out 5-10 pictures you like best and then if you want any other size other then the normal 5x7, you can pay extra for larger or more pictures.

 

[dkperez]

Hmmmm... Interesting. I've currently got things going in a couple forums, asking this set of questions. And I'm getting really interesting answers.
Everything from "the photographer is just a vendor and has to hope there's enough business to cover expenses" to "photographer X is willing to come and photograph the show IF we cover all his expenses including air fare from z"...

Last time I visited a cat show to wander around, I talked to the company doing the show photography. Found that the system of "just showing up whenever" hadn't worked. They wound up spending the day sitting and drinking coffee instead of doing portraits... That'd be one of the things I want to make SURE I don't wind up doing.

 

[missymotus]

I imagine some of the more well known photographers could be treated differently with regards to whether they pay their own way.
A popular photographer could boost entries so worth it for the club to pay expenses.

I'm not in the US and we don't have show photographers here, but I would choose to get pro shots done by one of the well knowns over an unknown.

I would do as GK suggested and contact clubs who'll be putting on shows, be aware that shows are planned months in advance too.

 

[goldenkitty45]

One of the coolest things is using the digital cameras now - the photographer doesn't waste printing shots if they are bad and can take a lot of pictures. Since its computer based you can go thru them and pick out what you want, then he can delete the rest after you choose.

When I first started showing and got prof pics done, you had to order what he took (say he only took 30 pics) and then you would pick out from that. Many of them were bad shots and only a few of them worth keeping so it kinda was expensive.

I think that the photographer took over 90 pics of Jack and it was hard to narrow it done to 8-10 pictures in the end. Hubby and I kept going back and forth between pics to choose.

 

[ferriscat]

I'll put in my two cents. . .

There are some photographers out there who I would indeed go out of my way attend a show in order to have the priviledge of getting photos of my cats from them. There are also other photographers that could offer me a free shoot, and I wouldn't be interested. Reputation is everything in the cat fancy, photography included.

Here's my logic. . . and maybe not everybody else buys into it, but I stand by it. All photos of a breeder's cats represent their program, both the good and the bad. I do not want a bad photo of my show-cat out there for the public to dissect--when I select something for my website or for publication, I want to look at that photo and think "my goodness, that is exactly why I am so proud of this lovely creature." Not "oh lord, look at that terrible profile, that horrible boning, ect. . ." A bad photographer can make the most excellent example of a breed look like mud. Unless I know I am going to get a photo shoot that captures my cat as I see them, I won't go to the trouble of using a unknown name.

Cat photography is not just about lighting. It's about being able to represent the living standard of a breed on film, and that is in itself an art. A Persian breeder is not going to want their cat photographed in the same way as an Oriental breeder, and you will need to learn the nuances. Some breeders will ask you to play up a cat's good qualities or play down a cat's faults. You need to know standards well enough in order to do this without explicit direction from the breeders. . . many photographers are breeders themselves. A good feline photographer also has to be a cat whisperer of sorts--you will need to learn to work with a variety of cat temperaments in order to manipulate them into giving you the best shot possible. Finally, you will absolutely have to have your photography area secured lest a cat gets loose from your both. If you lose cats into the showhall on your first gig, word will get out and people will not be interested in paying for your services.

Best of luck!

 

[dkperez]

FerrisCat, thanks much for your thoughts.... They, of course, bring up yet more questions.....

Part of my problem is I've been to several cat shows, and talked to many of the exhibitors (they're almost universally fun people that are eager to talk about their examples of the breed they work in), and shot candids. But, I haven't been at a show that had a portrait photographer for me to see how they worked with their clients.

>All photos of a breeder's cats represent their program, both the good and >the bad. I do not want a bad photo of my show-cat out there for the public >to dissect--when I select something for my website or for publication, I >want to look at that photo and think "my goodness, that is exactly why I >am so proud of this lovely creature." Not "oh lord, look at that terrible >profile, that horrible boning, ect. . ."

I absolutely understand your logic. When I do portraits (whether cats, dogs, people, or a combination), I ALWAYS go through them with my client. We, in combination, rate the images - me usually photographically, them esthetically. I typically reject more images than the client because I see some photographic flaw will make it a less-than-perfect image (if the client disagrees, however, I'll keep the image because there's some emotional connection or something the image shows that the client likes). On the other hand, I had one client point out a very minute ear position flaw, on an otherwise excellent shot, that she didn't like. That image was marked to be trashed. I can't imagine any photographer that's trying to portray their subject as flatteringly as possible that would EVER put an unflattering image out in public. Images my clients don't like never get seen by anyone but me and the client.

Is this a problem with photographers putting images the client doesn't like out for people to see? Why? If an image doesn't portray your subject as beautifully as possible why would any photographer use it?

>Cat photography is not just about lighting. It's about being able to >represent the living standard of a breed on film, and that is in itself an art.

I have SOME understanding of different breeds but not nearly the expertise of a person that is a breeder. So, I always have my clients provide feedback and have them help me portray their cat (or dog or person) as perfectly as possible. Do other photographers NOT let the client be involved? If not, why? I'd never presume to know your cats better than you - best angle, best side, most perfect pose, etc... Is it a photographer ego thing?

>A good feline photographer also has to be a cat whisperer of sorts--you will >need to learn to work with a variety of cat temperaments in order to >manipulate them into giving you the best shot possible.

SO FAR, that hasn't been a problem. I've had a MUCH better rapport with the animals I've photographed than most people I've done! Whether for the local shelter, CCI, or whatever I find it much easier and more enjoyable to photograph cats and other animals, than people...

>Finally, you will absolutely have to have your photography area secured lest >a cat gets loose from your both. If you lose cats into the showhall on your >first gig, word will get out and people will not be interested in paying for >your services.

Again, because I haven't actually seen a show photographer doing portraits, I don't know how they normally do this. Does the photographer work in a separate room? Or in a regular booth with the owner? I can't imagine any owner leaving their cat with the photographer, so is having cats escape normally a problem?

Anyhow, thanks again for your thoughts, and please keep them coming. It's all part of the learning process to me. I knew the mechanical aspects would be pretty easy to learn and easily quantified, but I'd need advice to learn other aspects. Thanks all.

 

[ferriscat]

I understand you've been in contact with Chanan--that advice is your best resource as you explore this venture. But I'll answer a few of your questions and give you things from my perspective as a customer

Originally Posted by dkperez

Part of my problem is I've been to several cat shows, and talked to many of the exhibitors (they're almost universally fun people that are eager to talk about their examples of the breed they work in), and shot candids. But, I haven't been at a show that had a portrait photographer for me to see how they worked with their clients.

Not everybody is going to want to give their competition the tricks of the trade

Photographers use a variety of toys to capture the cats' interest and position them for photos. Judges use the same basic techniques so that they can evaluate cats according to their breeds' standard.

Is this a problem with photographers putting images the client doesn't like out for people to see? Why? If an image doesn't portray your subject as beautifully as possible why would any photographer use it?

Many publication companies will turn to professional feline photographers for stock photography. Where do you think the images in Cat Fancy come from? Some breeders will not use certain photographers because they sell images they do not want out in the world representing their program.

 

[goldenkitty45]

The one we've used for our show cats, Preston Smith, has had some of his pics in Cat Fancy magazine.

 

[ferriscat]

I think Cat Fancy has pulled from just about every photographer out there, so don't use their published pictures as a 'whose who of terrible photographers.' Preston is well regarded by many breeders in your area . . . we don't see him out East, though.

I think you'll get a clear idea as to what images your clientele like best based on what prints they select for personal use and order for publication.

What I am saying is that trust between the exhibitor base and photographer is essential. A lot goes into showing cats at the top level, and PR is one of many things that make or break a good campaign. I know some people who will have their cat photographed 6-7 times before finally getting the 'right' image. In any world where awards are won based on appearance, the public release of a bad representation can be incredibly damaging.

 

[goldenkitty45]

And keep in mind that not all poses will work with all cats. I've seen some lovely "backards" poses where you see the back of the cat with its head turned over the shoulder looking at you. However, with my two Ocicats - I was not pleased at all with them sitting that way. For some reason they just looked awkward. My Oci poses are better as side views to show off the spotting.

You just have to "work" the cats to get those shots. They are not like dogs where you can tell them "sit" and "stay"

 

[dkperez]

Thanks again for the feedback......

I asked about images getting "out" because I was surprised that a photographer would not take their client's wishes into account when selling an image for publication. I don't think I'd even display an image on my website that the client didn't like - for them to evaluate, yes, but for general display, I don't think so.

One of the things I've enjoyed about working with cats is they're so variable. Although, I have to say I've very rarely had one that didn't seem to enjoy the attention. In general, I've had the opposite problem... Sometimes some of the more "laid back" breeds, Maine Coon's for example, are so relaxed they just don't want to get all silly and chase toys. I've had a couple that just plopped down on the posing stand and closed their eyes.....

But, I"ve usually found cats to be a lot more fun to work with than most of the humans I"ve photographed. And I've usually gotten images that made the client happy. ALTHOUGH, I have to admit, I don't think I'll ever be as knowledgeable about on breed standards as the exhibitors and clients. Which is why I always try to find out what they're after - if it's breed standard I have the client do more of the posing and working with the cat. Sometimes we don't get what they want. If it's more a flattering image of a beautiful cat, it's easier.

I've seen some of Preston Smith's work, and it was really nice. Actually, all the well-known folks I've looked at do really great work.

Now I need to find some somewhat-local shows in the north central area that are looking for a photographer.