Cat just bit my neck! predatory, playful, or wants something?

[dagger311]

So, my cat, Indy, who is about 8 months old, was sitting by the door leading out of our room. He clearly wanted out, but it's too early, he romps, and everyone is in bed except me. I'm sitting in a chair near the door attempting to play Gran Turismo 6. He had food, I had just taken care of his littler, played with him a bit, and petted him.

All of a sudden, he hops up on my lap lightning quick, rears up, and sinks in to the upper part of my neck ( it may actually be under the chin, it's, like, throbbing so I can't tell right now). Not bad enough to draw blood, and I can't tell if it broke skin.

I have come to the following therioes on it:
Playful pouncing. He does this to my legs and feet at night, as well. I am gone for long stretches of the day, so I don't play with him much.

Predatory pouncing. No clue how to tell them apart, but he has never attacked my neck before, and that is a very vulnerable area, so this can't be ruled out.

He was letting me know he wanted out. He has been known to hop in my bed and nibble on my feet when his food bowl, water dish, wet food "Delicacy" bowl, or litter box needs filled or cleaned.

Opinions?

 

[sillywabbit]

Playing? Cats fake attack each other all the time. My cat used to throw his entire body weight on the back of my knees where they bend. He was good at it too, sneak attack and everything, used to buckle me legs.,amazing, really.

 

[mservant]

Indy is at a prime age for playing and practicing his predatory skills - they are one and the same thing.  He is doing what he would do to another cat.  What he needs to learn quickly is that he should not do that to a non-cat / human.  If he wanted out the door he would be far more likely to throw himself at said door and wail at you while at the same time pawing and looking in the direction of what he wanted you to do.

If you had just had a short play with him and went on to play your game it sounds most like a 'play with me' behaviour.  I will still get a fully grown Mouse wrapping his jaws round my arm if he wants me off the computer and all attempts at being cute have failed to drag me away.   He has learned that being cute it the best way to get what he wants and this last resort behaviour when it happens is my own fault.  He also jumps at my head and would go for my neck no doubt had he not got firm lessons that anything in the neck area is seriously out of bounds when playing. ( When I first brought him home I used to worry about my eyes when I was about to go to sleep)... 

Do you play in a hands on kind of rough and tumble way with your cat when you play, or use toys for him to chase and attack?  First thing he needs to learn is that you are not another cat or toy that he attacks/ bites/ bunnykicks.  It may seem hard but it is necessary as a fully grown cat that hasn't learned the boundaries can do a lot of harm.

If he does jump at you and bite or bunnykick you need to freeze, push in to him slightly so he feels a little pressure, and say / make a sound he can quickly identify as one he must not ignore, something you do not use at any other time.  Like 'OW' or 'AHH'.  One you don't have to think much about if he is really hurting you and might be jumping at your face.  If he is up close you can blow in his face too.  You should NOT pull away, pulling away will be interpreted as a play response and increase the behaviour you don't want.  Stay still if you can until he drops away.  If he doesn't you make the noise again. If he is drawing blood then lift him off, or if he still doesn't respond, and then you need to life him away from you, put him down and stay firm.  No more play.  Ignore him.  If he comes back for more you need to go through the process again until he stops, but if he is too over excited and won't stop you have to get a door between you for maybe 30 seconds or more and not let him back in yours space until he has calmed down.

If you follow this he should get the message and stop - at least most of the time.  And of course the best defense is endless active play to tire him out whenever you can.  He should quieten down by the time he's a couple of years old and as long as you have not encouraged the biting and bunnykicking physical play he should be a well behaved little cat to share your space with.

 

[dagger311]

Indy is at a prime age for playing and practicing his predatory skills - they are one and the same thing.  He is doing what he would do to another cat.  What he needs to learn quickly is that he should not do that to a non-cat / human.  If he wanted out the door he would be far more likely to throw himself at said door and wail at you while at the same time pawing and looking in the direction of what he wanted you to do.



If you had just had a short play with him and went on to play your game it sounds most like a 'play with me' behaviour.  I will still get a fully grown Mouse wrapping his jaws round my arm if he wants me off the computer and all attempts at being cute have failed to drag me away.   He has learned that being cute it the best way to get what he wants and this last resort behaviour when it happens is my own fault.  He also jumps at my head and would go for my neck no doubt had he not got firm lessons that anything in the neck area is seriously out of bounds when playing. ( When I first brought him home I used to worry about my eyes when I was about to go to sleep)... 



Do you play in a hands on kind of rough and tumble way with your cat when you play, or use toys for him to chase and attack?  First thing he needs to learn is that you are not another cat or toy that he attacks/ bites/ bunnykicks.  It may seem hard but it is necessary as a fully grown cat that hasn't learned the boundaries can do a lot of harm.



If he does jump at you and bite or bunnykick you need to freeze, push in to him slightly so he feels a little pressure, and say / make a sound he can quickly identify as one he must not ignore, something you do not use at any other time.  Like 'OW' or 'AHH'.  One you don't have to think much about if he is really hurting you and might be jumping at your face.  If he is up close you can blow in his face too.  You should NOT pull away, pulling away will be interpreted as a play response and increase the behaviour you don't want.  Stay still if you can until he drops away.  If he doesn't you make the noise again. If he is drawing blood then lift him off, or if he still doesn't respond, and then you need to life him away from you, put him down and stay firm.  No more play.  Ignore him.  If he comes back for more you need to go through the process again until he stops, but if he is too over excited and won't stop you have to get a door between you for maybe 30 seconds or more and not let him back in yours space until he has calmed down.



If you follow this he should get the message and stop - at least most of the time.  And of course the best defense is endless active play to tire him out whenever you can.  He should quieten down by the time he's a couple of years old and as long as you have not encouraged the biting and bunnykicking physical play he should be a well behaved little cat to share your space with.

Does this site have a reputation system? If so, you deserve one. I leaned in on him a little as he was attacking my feet, and he backed right off, although he stared at me like I was a freak or something. I used to just pull my foot away, or lift him up and away with it. I bought a noise maker that was supposed to scare him off before that, and it didn't work (If anything, it had the adverse affect).

When he hit my neck yesterday, I pulled him off, and separated him from me for a few minutes, so I guess I'm on the right track for that.

And to answer your question about play, I NEVER introduce any part of my body in the fight. Instead, I opt to use the little squeaky mouse and birds that you throw (Like playing fetch with a dog), and the wands that have the ridiculously long string. However my brother will hold the cat like a baby, and stick his fingers on the cats' chest and tickle him, which I assume he takes as a threat or fight. Could that be making him overly aggressive?

The only reason I thought it might have been predatory is because he's never gone right for the neck, instead he jumps out from behind corners and attacks my leg.

Again, thanks for the help. I also started playing with him before bed as well, now he's asleep before me.

 

[mservant]

Don't go too big on the puraise yet, you've only had one day of different reactions!  Tomorrow Indy could be the worlds worst monster cat! 

  I'm glad he got the message to back off when he went for your leg though. It's great to hear you've not been encouraging the rough and tumble play - some cats just don't need any encouragement and it sounds like you have one of them.  So have I.   I haven't removed Mouse's bounce, or his daft pursonality (thankfully) so he is still a very playful and confident cat, and does still jump me from time to time:   as he doesn't hurt me or do it to anyone else it's OK for me and I can laugh about it.  In a way I think it's a positive that my cat is so confident he thinks he can play and win with an opponent so much bigger than he is, it's him being a cat. It's just it can be a bit painful and result in some unintentional injuries.  Stopping the unwanted behaviour in a way that doesn't result in a cat like Indy being anxious or unhappy, or changing their playful fun pursonality is really important for me which is why I don't use rattles or water sprays.

Mouse doesn't use claws, and doesn't bite hard but even with those unusual qualities it can be pretty painful when he's in full play mode and leaps at my head from behind or gets bored and chomps on my arm.  It would definitely not be good if a cat did that to humans who are less familiar with them so he has had firm lessons on all counts, and so far my boy hasn't bounced anyone other than me - feel my relief.  I can not promise you Indy won't feel optimistic from time to time and still try to get the better of you because I know Mouse still does it with me, but I know he knows he shouldn't and he doesn't do it as often as he used to when he was a kitten. When I say 'OW' he stops immediately. He learned very quickly that 'OW' meant he was hurting me, I think it only took about a week for that one.

If your brother decides to tickle and go hands on play with your cat then yes, I do think he is lining himself up for an excited cat that might decide he's fair game: either fair game to attack or game he doesn't like and will do anything he has to to get away.  If your brother is doing that I suggest keeping a close eye on your cat's ears, eyes and tail as they will often give away your cat's feelings and intent.  The tail is the easiest one and in those circumstances if it's flicking he is almost certainly not happy.

If your cat likes physical body contact with you and you want to encourage it but not the rough and tumble aggression - you can encourage more calm contact around greetings when you come in, and treats perhaps at the same time. Don't know if you already do that, it might not be a 'guy' thing to do. 

   Cats tend to like re-scenting their humans when either party has been out so it is a natural time when they will want to be close and weave around your legs or body if you get down to floor level - if your cat gets playful then move off and go in to play, if they stay calm and gentle you can enjoy the down time.  It can work well leading in to a play session after you get home from work or whatever. Down time contact, treats, play, you get things done you need to do, repeat cycle however many times ending with play then bed. Great you've already seen some results with the tiring out before bed too. 

  Don't expect the toe chomping and other attention seeking behaviours to change when you are neglecting your servant duties - I don't think I've heard of anyone winning on that front yet, not even on this site!

Any photos of your little bundle of energy?  I'd love to see him.  8 months is a great age:-D

(If you really want to give someone purraise for their post you can click on the little green thumbs up at the bottom right of the post - you can even say what you liked about a post - funny, helpful, good photo etc).

 

[dagger311]

He was attacking me in bed this morning because I woke up late and was too slow on the draw with his wet food, but aside from that, he backs off if I attempt to stop him.

And here are some pictures from my nexus 7, not a very good camera, but good enough.

 

[mservant]

Well cute. 

  Love the crossed paws in that first pic'.  Those white socks and white nose will look great when he's flying about.

Sounds to me like you and the little guy are getting on really well here.  Keep up with the good work.

 

[dagger311]

Well cute. 

  Love the crossed paws in that first pic'.  Those white socks and white nose will look great when he's flying about.

Sounds to me like you and the little guy are getting on really well here.  Keep up with the good work.

Thanks. I came home from doing errands today, and he acted like he hadn't seen me in months! When we first got him, he went by the name "Cat" for a few days, because my brothers wouldn't agree on a name. Socks, Honda (After the car company), Stormy, and Drake were all suggested, but they weren't going to agree. Then dad popped in and said he looked like an "Indy" to him, so we called him that.

He's really nice for the most part, even when he fights, he never draws blood, and doesn't really bite too hard, it's just way too rough to play with a human that way. In fact, when he hit my neck that day was the only time he's broken skin with a bite. He loves to lay the upper half of his body on my chest and let me pet and scratch his head.

I think I've chalked some of the times I've been bitten to my error: Petting too much/too hard, or when he doesn't want to be messed with, and he doesn't get punished for those times, but the random attacks will have to stop. As far as that goes, I was taking the entirely wrong approach by backing off in the start. Now any time he starts the attack, I get up and interrupt him, and it's worked wonders so far.

 

[mservant]

 It is so hard when they are being funny at the same time as causing pain or damage but sounds like you're winning: cat punishment is being ignored!  Wanting play and not getting it is a hard place for a kitten.  Any response to unwanted behaviour is taken as encouragement even if it is being shouted or worse.  You are doing well and it sounds like you're really beginning to figure him out.  I'm looking forward to more posts of your guy as he grows and gets in to new kinds of mischief.  

 

[sophie1]

My 8 month old cat does exactly the same thing - see "at wits end" thread about half a page back.  It's thoroughly exasperating because I've tried everything under the sun to get him to stop, but I REALLY like that tip about pushing into him, definitely worth a try.  Anyway it sounds like exactly the same type of playful attack, and at about the same time of day too.

With my cat, it's gotten almost like a nightly ritual. Last night he was curled up on his window perch by my bed sleeping soundly to some nice harp music, and I thought, Victory is Mine.  Nope.  The second I switched off the light, he woke up and went into his pouncing and face biting routine - which he only does at 11pm.  I tried to ignore him at first, then I did the low-pitched, firm "NO" and finger point routine, and finally had to scruff him and carry him out of the bedroom.  It is really creepy how he stares straight at me and will not be distracted by anything - toys, pillow shield, or even food.  He's thoroughly affectionate and gentle the rest of the day, with the occasional burst of energy where he runs around the apartment like a banshee, chases little toys that I throw for him, attacks rugs, etc.  Why he doesn't just do his runaround thing at 11pm I can't figure out.

Still debating whether to try to break the habit by shutting him out of my bedroom until we're safely past the witching hour, or keep trying to stop the attacks.  Dagger how did you do it, by pushing into your cat each time?

 

[dagger311]

Yeah, you almost don't want to leave, because they're really cute when they're stalking things, but I would guess if you didn't, it would mess with the training or something.

@Sophie1 I pushed into hi for the first two or three times each attack, and if that didn't work, I'd separate myself for anywhere between 15-30 minutes. It works almost every time. Sometimes he's still a little mean when I come back though. If he is, just rinse and repeat.

If it happens too late for you to leave for that amount of time, keep pushing, and ignore him except for the pushing. Indy is starting to learn that is not how humans play, and it will not be tolerated. I actually started going to bed at roughly 10 instead of my usual 11 because he's normally docile around that time. Well, that, and, "Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy and wise."

Some things I've tried that don't work:
Rattles\noise makers.
Squirt bottle (I was desperate, and didn't know about this site).
Fighting back (When I still thought he just hated me, I fought back, but that was the entirely wrong thing to do, since it is playful).
Blowing on him.
Tapping his nose.
Holding him by the scruff for 10-15 seconds (He came back with a vengeance).
And finally, pulling back (My foot and leg moving under a blanket probably looks a bit like the strings I drag on the ground to him).

Good luck! You won't regret the time spent on training, it's well worth the reward.

 

[mservant]

Sophie 1, I posted on your thread earlier on when I was on a break at work.  @Dagger311 mentions a very useful reminder here of why kitties think bed time is play time.  I have little doubt that our human bodies look like great big undercover toys with nice moving bits at different spots all over the bed - just right for practicing hunting and pouncing on.  And any rustling that happens will make the human an even more enticing prey. Pointing fingers, pulled back feat, and pillows and covers being drawn quickly over heads will all add to the fun.  How could we ever think a young cat would understand we were not setting up the perfect practice zone for honing their night time hunting skills?  It is really hard but we have to find ways to show our young cats that the bed is not the place to practice such things, it is a place to chill out and snooze.  It has to be boring for them until they learn: the only attention / reward should be when they are calm and cuddly.  

When I got my first 2 kittens I didn't have a bed and slept on a folded up duvet on the floor - this made it even harder for my girls to figure out they shouldn't play and pounce on me in bed.  I was simply part of their floor and as they tore up the apartment running about like a mini herd of furry elephants I was part of the ground that got trampled every time.... If I moved I was fair game.  I even woke up one night dreaming about being stalked by a tiger to the sensation of something running at high speed up my body, under the covers.  I sat bolt upright at the exact moment one of my girls popped her head out from under the covers and launched at my chin.  Boy was my heart racing. I got a futon after that and quickly decided that low level beds were NOT a good idea when you have young cats, along with seeing the logic in having tucked in covers to keep marauding paws out from under the covers. Thankfully they didn't bite and chew like my current boy or your two young kitties.

Sophie1, I hope you manage to have similar success to Dagger311, though it may take a little longer as your boy is more established in his habits and somewhat larger to manage and stay safe with while he is learning.  It is possible, please stick with is as he is still growing and it is best to work out the relationship and acceptable behaviours now. Fingers crossed for some fairly rapid improvements for you too.