Cat IQ question

[Juniper_Junebug]

Based on what I've read about other people's cats, I kinda feel like my cat Juno is not "classically" very intelligent but I'm curious about how common or uncommon the following response is:

We play Find the Treat where I hold treats in my fists and she has to touch which fist she wants me to open. Let's say I have two treats in my left hand and one in my right. She might select left with her paw because the smell is stronger and I let her eat one treat and then close my hand. Then she'll touch that hand again to get the second treat, and surely she can see that's the last treat remaining, right? But then when I close my hand again and present two fists, she'll still select the left hand. I guess, cause it's worked before. But are there cats who would understand there are no more treats in that hand right away and select the other hand?

Just trying to understand whether her response reflects a real limit on cat perception (like how toddlers of a certain age can't understand object permanence), or if some cats are able to get this right. (I promise, I'll love her the same regardless of the answer. Mostly I'm just curious).

 

[mani]

I think it's pretty amazing that she touches your hand to get the treat.
A cat that knows that a certain hand had a treat is going to go for that hand again, even though they've eaten the last treat. It's the hand that lays the golden treat!
I guess that would be my expectation with my cats.

 

[catloverfromwayback]

I don’t give my two treats, because of their dietary problems, but I can’t imagine Daisy figuring out touching the hand if I did, or Phoebe bothering! (Reaching up to grab the cake someone’s eating is more her style.)

 

[thefiresidecat]

eh imo that kind of test is putting human overlay on cat behavior. if she is playing that game with you at all she's clearly no dummy. we look at other behaviors individually in judging our cats intelligence. I think my sib is uncommonly smart. i've watched him calibrate awareness of where things are in time and space. and then execute behavior based on that. when he was a baby I watched him look out the window in the dining room and then run back outside and look in that window then run back inside and look out again. run out and go to a land mark and look back in the window. now we have kittens in a room. when we went out for garden time he ran around to one of the windows that looks in that room to try and get a look inside (not normal behavior for him). he clearly understands abstract words. we can say things in our non kitteh voices about things that are of interest to him and he responds appropriately. we know now we honestly have to watch what we say around him.

 

[Juniper_Junebug]

Post-script: Juno may not be a genuis but she's learning! More often than not these days, she'll stop touching the fist she's already depleted the treats from and move onto the other closed hand. I'm so impressed!

I offered Juno two fists full of treats in front of my mom recently and she was so impressed that Juno even knew to touch my hand to get a treat. And I must admit, it's super cute!

 

[iPappy]

Based on what I've read about other people's cats, I kinda feel like my cat Juno is not "classically" very intelligent but I'm curious about how common or uncommon the following response is:

We play Find the Treat where I hold treats in my fists and she has to touch which fist she wants me to open. Let's say I have two treats in my left hand and one in my right. She might select left with her paw because the smell is stronger and I let her eat one treat and then close my hand. Then she'll touch that hand again to get the second treat, and surely she can see that's the last treat remaining, right? But then when I close my hand again and present two fists, she'll still select the left hand. I guess, cause it's worked before. But are there cats who would understand there are no more treats in that hand right away and select the other hand?

Just trying to understand whether her response reflects a real limit on cat perception (like how toddlers of a certain age can't understand object permanence), or if some cats are able to get this right. (I promise, I'll love her the same regardless of the answer. Mostly I'm just curious).

I feel like the concept of intelligence is very fluid. There are a lot of different ways intelligence can shine through. I think it's really cool that you're offering her these games and encouraging her to think!
What does she do if you let her touch your left hand when it's empty? Does she continue to try for the left hand or does she look at you for more information? Do you find yourself using similar patterns, or similar reward systems, that might unintentionally create a learned behavior chain?

 

[Juniper_Junebug]

I feel like the concept of intelligence is very fluid. There are a lot of different ways intelligence can shine through. I think it's really cool that you're offering her these games and encouraging her to think!
What does she do if you let her touch your left hand when it's empty? Does she continue to try for the left hand or does she look at you for more information? Do you find yourself using similar patterns, or similar reward systems, that might unintentionally create a learned behavior chain?

Interesting questions! I recognize cat intelligence is different but I still find it fascinating!

I guess I first just trained her to touch a closed first to get treats, which wasn't that hard; I was using freeze dried shrimp so she could smell them, and one of her natural reactions was eventually to paw my hand. At first, I only put shrimp in one hand, to get her to figure out where they were. When I started doing both, that's when I noticed she would paw the "winning" hand even after it was empty. She would tap the "winning" once or twice (I would close it each time after showing it was empty), and then would move to the other hand. She didn't see to be confused or looking to me for info. She just seemed to think, at first: Tap left hand means I get a treat, so I'll tap left hand again (Yes, I know this is applying human thinking, but it's all got!)

But recently, she has seemed to notice when she's exhausted all treats in the left hand and moved straight to the right. Not always, but enough that I think she's really maybe learning.

Or not. I dunno. But I like these experiments and she seems to too, so we'll keep at it. It's like clicker training only I don't have to find where I last left the dang clicker!

 

[Alldara]

To me it sounds like she's trying to figure out how to play the game still. It's a pretty human game for a cat and your hand contained treats before and still smells like a treat!

I think cats also have different kinds of intelligence between themselves. For example, Calcifer will do a puzzle in the matter of a few minutes and also loves to learn tricks. Magnus is very intelligent. If my wife and discuss our friend, R between ourselves he knows when she is supposed to come over, or if we are just mentioning her. Apparently, he also knows it takes her around 20 minutes to get to our home because if she's "late' he will start pressing "friend, friend".
Cal isn't interested in pressing buttons further than requests and Magnus will walk away from the most simple treat puzzle (but can find a toy under 3 rotating cups).

So yes. Just like humans, cats have different types of intelligence and will pick up certain things faster.

 

[iPappy]

To me it sounds like she's trying to figure out how to play the game still. It's a pretty human game for a cat and your hand contained treats before and still smells like a treat!

I think cats also have different kinds of intelligence between themselves. For example, Calcifer will do a puzzle in the matter of a few minutes and also loves to learn tricks. Magnus is very intelligent. If my wife and discuss our friend, R between ourselves he knows when she is supposed to come over, or if we are just mentioning her. Apparently, he also knows it takes her around 20 minutes to get to our home because if she's "late' he will start pressing "friend, friend".
Cal isn't interested in pressing buttons further than requests and Magnus will walk away from the most simple treat puzzle (but can find a toy under 3 rotating cups).

So yes. Just like humans, cats have different types of intelligence and will pick up certain things faster.

The thought of Magnus hitting "friend, friend" buttons because your friend is late is just too cute for words.
I taught Lila to sit up using a clicker. The other two cats never really caught onto it. But Goof began to offer a sit up after he sat right next to Lila and watched her sit up over and over and get a treat every single time. Pretty smart, IMO. Sarah is not a trick-cat. But while the other two are hanging around to see if they can earn a snack, she's the one patiently poised somewhere and does a sudden dive and comes up with a mouse. So one could say Lila and Goof are "smart" because they're trainable, but others could say Sarah is smarter because she got the ultimate reward.
I taught my first dog ever a lot of tricks. I would ask for the same tricks, all in a row, every single time. Unintentionally, I created a very reliable behavior chain. "Sit" meant "Sit, then do 5 other things." That taught me a lot about varying what you ask for. I really was careful when I taught Livie how to weave, because I didn't want to have to "air cookie" lure her through or be right beside her to baby-sit. I wanted her to hit the first pole and do all 6 or 12 independently as one single behavior. It's really fascinating working with them.

 

[Alldara]

The thought of Magnus hitting "friend, friend" buttons because your friend is late is just too cute for words.
I taught Lila to sit up using a clicker. The other two cats never really caught onto it. But Goof began to offer a sit up after he sat right next to Lila and watched her sit up over and over and get a treat every single time. Pretty smart, IMO. Sarah is not a trick-cat. But while the other two are hanging around to see if they can earn a snack, she's the one patiently poised somewhere and does a sudden dive and comes up with a mouse. So one could say Lila and Goof are "smart" because they're trainable, but others could say Sarah is smarter because she got the ultimate reward.
I taught my first dog ever a lot of tricks. I would ask for the same tricks, all in a row, every single time. Unintentionally, I created a very reliable behavior chain. "Sit" meant "Sit, then do 5 other things." That taught me a lot about varying what you ask for. I really was careful when I taught Livie how to weave, because I didn't want to have to "air cookie" lure her through or be right beside her to baby-sit. I wanted her to hit the first pole and do all 6 or 12 independently as one single behavior. It's really fascinating working with them.

Wow! I never thought about the train of command before! What an interesting happenstance.

 

[iPappy]

Wow! I never thought about the train of command before! What an interesting happenstance.

It's amazing how they train to that, but if you think about it, it makes perfect sense from their POV.