Cat attacking/injuring other cat

[crystalkitty]

I have two cats, a neutered male and spayed female, who are almost three years old. I adopted them both as feral rescued kittens when they were young, and they have been raised together.

The male was briefly aggressive with the female a little over a year ago. I found a puncture wound on her head and he was the only one who could have done it.

They do play, but not that much. They sometimes "stalk" each other but generally stop short of actually touching. They will wrestle a bit, but not often (a few times a week). I have never seen one act afraid of the other (except as mentioned below).

I'm not sure really of the hierarchy or a lot of cat behavioral signals. The female will often approach the male and start licking his face. If anyone DOES suddenly attack, it is usually her and usually during one of these grooming sessions. It's normally a short-lived wrestling spat with no hard feelings.

But the female IS very particular about how things should be, and she has a rather demanding personality. I also have a large German Shepherd, and she has him well trained to respect her.

The male is much more easygoing and laid back.

He's also much larger than her.

The past couple of days, something has happened. I don't really see any strange behavior between them, except there was a brief time when the female was circling the area the male had just walked through and was sniffing the floor and she was VERY afraid. She avoided him after that. She also showed up with several bloody scratches and bites on her face. She is being scratched above the eyes and bitten under the ear.

I've been trying to watch them constantly, and separate them, and not let anything happen, but it seems just a moment out of my sight and she shows up with fresh bites. I did catch him once standing next to her and just viciously chewing on her neck. It happened fast, and I don't know what caused it. Neither of them made a sound, so when the attacks happen I usually miss them.

He's getting very upset about being shut away from her, destroying the carpet, and I'm afraid I'm going to make him neurotic and cause MORE behavior problems by keeping them separated, but she MUST be protected from him. He's so much larger, and she is very delicate as far as her health (always has been) and i am very concerned for her.

The only other thing that could possibly have precipitated it is that she has (I believe) asthma. She was very sick a couple of months ago, and I took her to the vet, who said it was likely asthma. Her breathing was so bad, I kept her in the room with me at night (normally they have their own room at night) and maybe he was made jealous by that? But when she started doing better, she started acting up in the bedroom, and since she was breathing fine, I put her back in with him. The attacks didn't start until about a couple of weeks after they'd been back together at night. Now she is back in my bedroom at night because I don't want him to hurt her, and the only other option is to crate him at night and give her the cat room, and I don't want to confine him that way.

There is almost no chance they are seeing other cats outside. I live on a farm, and right now there are breeding flocks of geese outside the windows the cats look out of, as well as larger animals at night, and chickens, etc. Cats sometimes pass by the front of the property, but my cats shouldn't be able to see them ever, and they don't ever go outside.

I've had the dog (the only other animal they interact with) since he was a puppy, over a year ago, and there have been no problems there. He does chase the male cat and wrestle with him, but the dog is only allowed in part of the house and the cat has many places to get away and can easily avoid him ... in fact I'm pretty sure it's a game for the cat, and he is always going up to the dog and rubbing on him, so I know they are buddies. I don't think the dog would ever hurt the cats. He is very gentle with them.

Please, if anyone has any suggestions? My little female cat has an open wound more than 1/4 inch under her ear (the second one so far) and the bottom of her ear is bleeding, and her face is bleeding over the eye again. I treat her with topical antibiotics and she heals quickly, but this has to stop. I don't want to get rid of the male, because he was my daughter's cat, but I don't know what to do.

(Oh, I did read the stickies here, and I do have Bach's Rescue Remedy, and I plan to start giving it to BOTH of them immediately. But any other suggestion much appreciated!)

Thanks very much.

 

[cheylink]

Have you tried Feliway? It's not the visual of a cat outside as much as the scent that threatens them. You mentioned the female may have asthma, do you know for sure? Is she on medication for this? I'm sure he's not upset about being separated from her as much as he is upset to be alone. Crating him in the same room as her will more likely create more tension.

 

[crystalkitty]

Thank you.

The vet diagnosed asthma based on an exam and history. He does want to do a diagnostic series but I could not afford to pay for all the tests (still can't but I can when my tax refund comes in). He gave me a prescription for Albuterol, which I had to give her about three doses a couple of months ago. He also gave me prednisone to have on hand but due to side effects she probably won't be put on steroids unless I can't control the symptoms, which so far I've managed to do.

I had not heard of Feliway until I read about it here last night so I will give it a try. Does one diffuser cover a full house? (about 2000 sf, mostly open -- only the bedroom and the cat's room can be closed off)

I did crate him with her in the room once, but I decided that was probably going to upset him more, so since that time if I had to crate him, I put his crate next to the dog's crate and her in their room. He is accepting of a crate (though not happy) but she acts as though it's a matter of life and death not to be put in one, so I'd rather not crate her. (and I've left the open crate in their room with treats, clothing, toys for a year but being PUT in still upsets her).

Cats outside are probably nit the issue then. They don't get within about 100 yards of the house, and I would guess all the other animal smells (the farm animals) probably are more noticeable to them. No new animals have been added in about a year (except babies born/hatched).

Thanks again, very much.

 

[cheylink]

I couldn't tell you the specifics of Feliway, but know from many others here on TCS that it is highly recommended in similar stress related situations. I would visit the site..
http://www.feliway.com/us

You mentioned she was on Albuterol, for how long and was there any issues then? One of the side effects of this med is nervousness, excitement...... Prednisone is an anti inflammatory, but not recommended for long term use. If you don't mind me asking, what are her symptoms?
I wish I could help more, and hope you keep us updated on your progress.

 

[crystalkitty]

Thanks so much for your reply.

She was only on the Albuterol for three doses, when i first brought her back from the vet. That was almost two months ago, and nothing happened around that time.

The attacks just started last Saturday or so, less than a week ago.

I have not put her on the prednisone because the vet (and I agree) didn't want to put her on it lightly. Since the episodes she had when I took her to the vet, she's gotten better over the course of about a week and has not had any more breathing problems. So ... I have the prednisone but no intentions of giving it to her except as a last resort. If I *do* have to put her on steroids, I'd much rather put her on an inhaled steroid, as far as I can find out ... the side effects are greatly reduced compared to prednisone or the injected steroid.

Her symptoms (of the asthma) look much like a hairball attack, but she never produces any hairball. Usually there will be a period of a week or two when she seems more prone to the attacks. They are more frequent in the wintertime, or during times of heavy pollen. They can also be brought on by exercise. She will stretch her neck out and make a coughing sound, with her body stiff. They are improved by taking her in the bathroom with hot steam.

The attacks a couple of months ago were very severe. She tended to sit straight up and wasn't able to breathe well at all. She always tends to snore a little, but she snored a lot when this is going on.

I can't say for sure whether the Albuterol helped or not. I just gave her the doses when she had more than one attack within an hour, I think was what the vet said. The attacks stopped a day and a half after the first dose so I have not given her any more since then.

I've done my best to control her symptoms by keeping windows closed, keeping her warm, trying to keep her out of dust and scents (that's one thing that worries me about the Feliway ... she can be aggravated by chemicals or various things, which I normally don't use aerosols, bug spray, air fresheners, perfumes, chemical cleaners, etc. anyway), keeping out pollen and dust as much as possible, limiting her exercise, etc. So far so good, but warmer weather is normally her "good" time of year.

The vet listened to her with a stethoscope, palpated her all over, took her temp, took a detailed history, etc. He said the sounds in her lungs and the history were consistent with asthma, but he couldn't make a 100% diagnosis without all the tests. He was sure enough though that he did prescribe Albuterol.

As far as the behavior and attacks, I watched them again today and let them be together for a short while. They both do a lot of sniffing, ignoring each other for the most part (though she is just as likely to quickly greet him and lick his face). I can tell she is nervous around him too though, and with all the sniffing of every surface that goes on when they change places .... I think that's the thing.

He tried to attack her again, even in the few moments together. But ... he knows he is not supposed to (I think) because he seems to be looking for an opportunity while he is not being watched. I didn't give him that chance (when he thought he was getting out of sight, he moved into position to bite her, but I came after them quickly and he didn't have a chance to bite her). For part of the day, she was alone with the dog ... he hasn't aggravated the wounds in any way, and I didn't think it was him. I spent a good bit of time with the boy cat, letting him lie on the bed with me so he does not feel jealous (I think he tends to jealousy because the female demands a lot more attention, and tends to act like she is a princess, LOL, making sure she gets what SHE wants).

I'm still not sure who is the boss between them. Right now, it looks more like she is trying to placate him, and she is nervous around him.

I hope the Feliway will be helpful in that case. I can't leave them alone together for a moment, and really can't even have them together when I am there ... just walking around a corner gives him the opportunity to bite her.

Thanks, so much for the replies!

 

[Willowy]

It's weird that she's being injured without them actually FIGHTING. A cat fight is noisy--lots of howling and spitting and all that. I've never seen a serious fight that was silent like that. Does her skin seem thinner, more delicate? Maybe it's just "love bites"but with thinner skin it causes the injuries.

I don't have a lot of suggestions, but I hope you can get to the bottom of this! It's a very odd situation.

 

[cheylink]

One thing I can recommend during the winter months is a humidifier. It is very important to keep a steady air quality for her. An air purifier would also make a huge difference. Feliway is a natural product, but you never know what can trigger an asthma attack, so I would do a supervised test first with her separately to make sure.
From what you have described behaviorally, it sounds like he is dominant, and she is trying very hard to get him to accept her as a submissive. She is very aware of her discomfort and only wants to be excepted and loved.
Does she spend a lot of time with your doggy, do they often sleep together? Have you ever tried keeping her separate from your doggy for an extended period of time?
I hope someone else can chime in with some more personal experience with kitty asthma. But Maia and I are here

 

[darcifinn]

Hi - I am sorry you are going through that I am going through the same thing too. I think one diffuser is supposed to 650 ft. I just got a 3-pack on ebay for about 58.00 so it may be a cheaper way to go.

 

[crystalkitty]

Thanks again, all.

I will look into a humidifier before next winter. It's in the winter that it acts up (the past two years ... she's only just under 3 years old now). Air quality IS very important to her ... I guess I'll do a test on the Feliway first and see what happens. Hopefully I can use it.

It *is* very odd that they are silent in this. Their playing is normally pretty silent, when they used to wrestle and all. However, she is VERY vocal with the dog. And no, he does not hurt her. Just he started out as a rambunctious puppy and she had to "train" him, and now he is much MUCH larger so she keeps him in line by slapping him and yowling at him. But the cats .... are silent. He will go around the corner and walk up beside her and then just latch onto her neck or face and start chewing.

Her face is delicate .... everything about her is delicate, and he is a very large, muscular cat with very long teeth. But, even if he didn't mean it to hurt her, he has, and now she is nervous around him. And he seems to look for opportunity, so I can't leave them alone. I keep them separated all but a few minutes a day now.

But I surely can't understand the silent nature of it either.

She has in the past gotten upset with him. Usually it will be her that attacks him, and she will growl and yowl. She leaps at him and knocks him over, wraps her front legs around his neck, and bites at him, though she has never put a mark on him that I've ever seen. Usually it will be over her "spot" ... she likes to choose places and claim them, and she won't want him to get in her place. She doesn't always defend her spot, but sometimes she will. And she sometimes doesn't want him to get on the bed when she's on the bed with me. I think these are very minor spats though, with no hard feelings lasting beyond ten minutes or so.

Regarding the dog, no, neither of them sleep with him. They both go up and walk under his chin, rub their shoulders on him. The female wants to play with him, but she wants to swat him from a protected position and she will claw his face, so I don't allow it. The dog will chase the male and pin him down and take little tiny bites, as though he's chasing a flea. The male has always enjoyed rough play (I had a just-neutered tom who "adopted" him when I first brought him home who used to hold him down and chew on him and he loves it). The male will complain if the dog gets too rough, and I never allow it to continue more than a moment. The cat has plenty of places to escape to, and the dog is only allowed on the tile floors so he can't just chase them through the house.

The dog has his own crate to sleep in, and the cats almost never go in there. The male has investigated it a time or two. He also sleeps on a blanket in the dining room, but often the female cat will lie down on the dog's blanket, and in that case he will lie nearby ... she is not inclined to share and he doesn't push it.

So .... they are friendly with the dog and get along, but not greatly attached. They don't spend a lot of time together. They do drink from his bowl, and he knows not to guard food or water from them. He is ok with that.

 

[crystalkitty]

I hadn't thought for a while about the Tom that adopted my male kitty when I brought him home. And how that cat used to wrap his arms around the kitten, hold him down, lick him and suddenly bite him. It wasn't in a breeding position, they would usually be belly to belly with arms around each other, and the tom would seem to be grooming his head and neck area. My male cat adored that Tom, and seemed to love being treated that way. I couldn't get them to stop.

The tom unfortunately died soon after from an acute renal issue.

He was my buddy, and I miss him still.

Only then did the male cat really seek out attention from me. It seemed he was a cat's cat before that. He was still very young though. But he would ALWAYS get involved in the petting and then slowly open his mouth and start chewing on me.

I tried, and tried, and tried to stop him. I don't know if he understands that I don't want him to do that, but he still to this day has to bite me when he is enjoying being petted. I can pat him briskly like I would a dog, and that's ok, but if I rub him, he purrs and bites. (He used to drool too.)

I wonder if that can have something to do with it???

I've also thought maybe it's because of the way the dog plays with him, though he does seem to like it.

The only other thing ... I remember he was rolling on the floor and being EXTREMELY cute a day or two before this whole thing started. It's unusual for him to solicit attention in that way .... usually he just walks up to me and meows and rubs on me. I told him how cute he was and petted him, and I found he did that same thing several more times. It didn't put me in mind of a female rolling, or a cat on catnip ... he was more like posing and showing his belly and turning his head just a bit and making eyes at me.

I wonder too if it's a shifting of dominance between them. Honestly, the female is normally so demanding of HOW things should be and very vocal to let you know if she's not happy about it (for example, she must not be touched with anyone's feet, she gets the "different surface" in a room, whatever that difference may be, the dog must not sniff her or touch her when she's sitting in an open box -- she made that rule up and I keep boxes for her in every room so she can be wherever she wants but not bothered, etc.) .... and the male is pretty laid back and accepting of almost anything. So I'm not sure if she's boss or not.

Maybe she was and he wants to be now.

 

[darcifinn]

Crystal I am in a very similar boat it is so distressing and breaks my heart. My girl when in one week ago for a cleaning and since she been back the boy has been after her. My vet is puzzled as they used to best buds and he said his fear of her should have worn off. I put a calming collar on the girl so she would be less nervous, am using feliway, am am giving them a calming liquid.

Luckily my boy has not broken the skin. I got home tonight and he had gotten in the room where she was. I am hoping this has cured him a bit because when I came she was on the bed mad and scared and he was downstairs. I know he got in because the door was closed when I left and his fur was in her claws.

By the way my girl in 11 pounds DSH and my boys is a 15.5 pound Maine Coon - so our situations are similar. Drop me a note if you need to vent.

 

[crystalkitty]

Thanks.

It IS very frustrating, and distressing. She has a pretty large wound from being hit twice in the same place under the ear.

Tonight he got in the bedroom so I let him stay (he's been lonely today) and they both stayed on the bed with me while I watched a movie (and them). All seemed fairly well for almost two hours, then I saw he was beside her and just tried to dig his teeth in at her shoulder. There is no posturing, no ears laid back or tail motion, NOTHING before it happens, and she made a very quiet squeak when he tried to hit her. I threw clothing at him to distract him and he ran. She had her ears back and looked fearful after that. I caught it before he managed to bite her, thankfully, and he's now in their room for the night and she's snoring away in here.

She was 9 pounds at her vet visit (I'd have guessed closer to 7!) and I'm not sure what he weighs, but he's a big boy with lots of muscle and a bit of flab too. He looks twice her size.

I guess things ARE a bit better, in that they can be in the same room for a while. But I don't dare get distracted, or leave them alone. It doesn't help my feelings in this that she's the one who's always at my side, the "good one" who listens and behaves and is sweet. He's always been a bit of a rogue, tearing things up and refusing to listen, coming for attention when he wants it but otherwise I'm just the food lady.

I try not to let my feelings do anything to make one jealous of the other, etc.

They were both feral rescues, but she has flame point Siamese coloring and a lot of Siamese characteristics, except that her legs are short. She looks a bit like a Siamese football.

I ADORE Maine Coons. I rescued a wonderful stray that came to my house about eight years ago that the vet and several other people said was likely purebred or close to it Maine Coon. He was another of my favorite cats. He stayed with the ex and his live-in kicked him outside and he was run over. I loved that cat, but he really REALLY loved my daughter. It was sweet to watch them together.

 

[darcifinn]

I am hoping that your cats being in the same room together shows progress. I am hoping the same for mine. I think the fact that Darci fights back will stop Finn eventually I just wish he would recognize is his sister that he used to sleep next too. He seems very disturbed by her small no matter what I do. I am crossing my fingers for progress as I am going on vacation for 5 days May 20th and need this to be better by then!

 

[crystalkitty]

I hope your cats are all sorted out before you are due to go on vacation. That would ruin a vacation, having to worry if the kitties were doing ok the whole time. Glad to hear yours are sharing space in a room again, and the girl will defend herself.

I'm hoping mine will come around too. I'm still keeping them separate most of the time. Today I was switching them out, calling the boy out of the catroom and letting the girl go in, and while she was sitting there waiting for him to come out, the dog came up behind her (two steps onto the carpet and he knows he's not supposed to, but the back door is there so he will sometimes) and touched his nose to her back. She didn't realize he was there and almost jumped out of her skin, poor girl, so she is still nervous.

I'm hoping the Feliway will help, and she can tolerate it.

 

[darcifinn]

Things went pretty well up till ten minutes ago when he chased while she was in litter box. Now she is hiding. I swear I am going to go crazy if he makes her afraid of the litter box. I put the cover back on it but not sure that is a good idea as it means she has no escape.

 

[crystalkitty]

Ugh ... That is not a good problem to have. I hope she doesn't become afraid of the litterbox!!!

I am starting to think it's a hierarchy problem with my cats. She is finally healing. The last wound was larger. He hasn't had a chance to bite her in some days now, but they do see each other in passing and spend a little time together each day in the bedroom.

Today the female (Crystal) jumped on a little box (they are thrones to her LOL) and reached out to swat/scratch the male. He jumped back and went across the room where she stared at him for ten minutes as if she hated him.

I think -- maybe -- she has been the boss, and her poor health has upset that balance. Now that she seems to be feeling stronger and/or more confident, I actually worry it could get worse again.

It's hard babysitting cats 24/7 when they are both used to having the run of the place and company all day.

Today I left the male in a blanket-nest on the bed with a bird documentary playing on the TV. I'm glad he at least enjoys watching TV!

And I had to help a chick hatch today that looks as if it's going to need ongoing care if I'm going to save it, so that's one more creature to separate from both cats. I don't have that many rooms if this keeps up.

 

[crystalkitty]

Well ....

It's been a busy week. I had a goat kid that had some troubles, and the kid is now finally on track. So I haven't worked on anything with the cats, just kept them mostly separate except when I could watch them, and try to give both of them plenty of attention in case jealousy was feeding in.

Something weird has happened. The male (Russet) has gotten MUCH more affectionate. He has spent some time alone, so I guess I'm not surprised. He meow-purrs, asking for attention, looking cute, making eyes at me, and begging to be petted. he would solicit a little attention before, but not nearly so much. He acts almost like the female (Crystal).

When they meet, the male often looks like he will bite the female. There is a lot of crouching and looking like they are going to pounce, but they "miss" each other when they jump. But when he noses up to her neck and looks like he WILL bite her, I say his name loudly and he runs.

Yesterday ... she very boldly approached him, licked him (that's not so strange) and SHE grabbed HIS throat. I don't think she can so easily hurt him, and he didn't have a mark, but ... she really acts like she wants to get him. He was very nervous, and tried to stick close to me and stay away from her. She tolerated him being in the room, but I could almost feel the vibes, if you know what I mean. He quickly went to hide in a corner, then asked to be let out of the room.

Now it looks like she might hurt him.

Cats are weird.

I haven't had the chance to see if Feliway will upset her asthma. With the newborn kid teetering on the edge of life, needing almost round-the-clock care and supervision, I didn't want to potentially induce a crisis in my kitty as well. It's been a crazy week.