Can my cat and my kitten still benefit from a slow introduction if I free feed?

[kissthisangel]

I've just got my 1YO shorthair Tabby Mojo a 'Brother', he's 10 weeks old, short hair also tabby. Since we brought him home yesterday we've had him isolated in our dining room. We've borrowed a medium size dog crate from my mother in law it currently houses a litter box and an old jacket of mine which is lined with a synthetic sheep skin like you get on pet blankets. (don't ask me why I ever thought I would wear that). Anyway.

Mojo was curios, obviously, and we shut him in the crate and let her in after several hours of her crying, she hissed and ran away. The only time we've ever seen her this frightened is when my mum comes, and that's because she thinks the cat is akin to a toddler and she should understand the words "no" etc she kinda just shouts at her about not liking her. He had absolutely no reaction whatsoever, he just carried on his playing and sniffing. we have bought them each scratching pads for scent swapping and I did the sock rub, which I will continue to do as well as making sure their food is close to the door (neither are fussed about this).

I understand we may have let her in a little too early, but I read several options for introductions, I've even given advice about it on here. One of them suggested "fighting it out" which is DEFINATELY not an option Mojo would probably crush him if she wanted to.

My Question is if I have free fed Mojo for all of her life and I now change to a schedule to accommodate the classic slow introduction process of set feeding closer to the door will she not associate the hunger with the new arrival - making her feel negative.

Shall I just carry on with the space sharing, allowing them to swap rooms for five to ten minutes at a time? 

It has only been a day since we brought him in and I understand it's going to take time, I just want to give them the best possible chance of getting along and stick to one plan going forward. Theory is fine until it's your own pet you just want it all to work out 

 

[betsygee]

Theory is fine until it's your own pet you just want it all to work out  

You're right about that!  

If it were me, I don't think I would change Mojo's feeding routine.  I'd think it would stress her out further.  Does Mojo like treats?  You could try giving treats closer to the door instead of regular food.

If you've been around the site for awhile you may have already seen this article.  If not, see if it gives you any ideas.  And as you already mentioned, it can take time--each cat is so different.  

 

 

[kissthisangel]

thank you for your reply,

we had what I felt was a good success today, Our kitchen door is wood with glass panels, when it's closed there is an inch gap. Charlie is such a brave little boy and we were playing with him after combing out some residual fleas. Mojo came up to the door and hissed a little but wasn't swishing her tail and her ears were up. it was more of an "I'm not sure about you furrball" so I grabbed some cat jerky and posted it through the hole, telling her what a good girl she was and she actually ate it with him only a few inches away. Still a little bit hissy when he tried to smell her through the gap so I took him away and gave her a really good play session as a reward. no point in rushing it.

unfortunately whilst I was at work my partner decided to take Charlie in the crate to Mojo and she jumped on the carrier and hissed. I've asked him not to do that again. I have a large dog pen that I will put a cardboard box in so we can let him in there, he can hide if he wants. I'll casually open the door  to his kitten room and feed her treats as she sniffs his stuff. 

 thanks for linking the article, I have read it previously, but a little brush up doesn't hurt

:3

 

[kissthisangel]

I'm hoping that it's ok to continue and double post in this thread. I'm probably going to use it as a tracker for daily behavioural updates. If this is not ok then please let me know. I'd like for people to be able to comment if they want.

Seeing as we'd started hard, I thought we'd better continue that way, rather than confuse Mojo. My partner is a law unto himself and works from home, so he let charlie in the main area today. Mojo sticks to him anyway so she was upstairs all day with him, whilst Charlie flew solo in the living room. he ran around and used her stuff and bounced about. That's fantastic, but I wasn't there to see or control so hnngggg I wanted to be.

When I got home I wanted to use some of the techniques in the thread that was linked above so I did the treats as they ate by the door. (again). Mojo not only hissed but also tried to swat through the door a little. Given how far it's come since her just being terrified and running away I'm actually happy with this. My partner was saying no take him away, but Charlie still wasn't fussed. His back stiffenned a little the first time, but when I was too slow with kitty Jerky the second time, he just waited and ignored her. Whilst she was occupied with treats, she really was just watching him with some interest but also stuffing her face.

 Also this may sound like the wierdest thing ever, but our bathroom window looks out onto our back garden and it's at least 30 ft down, Mojo would absolutely never even attempt that leap, so we let her look out, and we open the window slightly, but because of the way it opens, which is outward at the bottom, she wouldn't be able to fall out of it, or press on the top. For this reason it's wide enough for moths to get in. She spends any time after dark up there killing stuff. I've become wary of her since I realised how large she actually is now. She can be quite feisty.  But I know from watching MCFH and reading on here, if you have negative feelings it may impact on the cat so I played with her, rough as she likes and she ( can I say obviously ) didn't hurt me. much like she wouldn't have before. I was never frightened before, I wouldn't say I'm frightened now, I'm just more acutely aware of damage she can do to us. She isn't viscious at all just scared in some situations.

 I'm really enjoying the new relationship I'm building with her, as well as the new kitten who is completely different in so many ways It's absolutely great having them around!

 

[betsygee]

 I'm really enjoying the new relationship I'm building with her, as well as the new kitten who is completely different in so many ways It's absolutely great having them around!

Oh, that sounds really good.  Mojo is going to get some different kinds of attention, too.  

 

[kissthisangel]

Mojo has certainly had some different attention today. During the day she 'met' Charlie, My partner was combing him to get rid of any adult fleas, he is so placid, as soon as you cradle him he purrs and he is yours. she wandered in through the door and sniffed around his room whilst this was happening. Way to go Mojo!

When I got home, My partner was playing with Charlie with this reindeer toy that has a bell and a furry tail on a wand, so I ran upstairs and grabbed her bird (da bird knock off sorry but $18 is too much when I order them from ebay for £1.49.)  I played with her in the hall next to the kitchen whilst he was in there playing too. She had a couple of moments where I thought she was going to go for it but largely she just ignored him. One thing though, she was hissing at her toy, and then growling when she caught it and she has never done this ever. I think maybe now she has learned these sounds she wants to use them.  It seemed like practise,catch hiss growl kill. She's always been a very vocal cat. She speaks to us all the time, especially my partner they have full on conversations and  he translates what she "says" for fun.

We went up to our vet to buy some stronger flea treatment for Charlie, since his mum wrestles rabbits as a hobby he came to us pretty riddled, I know they were treating him, but he still had plenty. They said that their treatment was prescription only and had he been vaccinated etc. He's only 11 weeks and I was content to wait for 12weeks , since he will also be indoor only, but they said he should have been vaccinated at 9 weeks. They had a cancellation so we raced home and plopped him in the crate, raced back up there.

The vet examined him and said he had an umbilical hernia (I had noticed a lump but to be honest it's so small I thought maybe it was a nipple or a rough patch of fur) apparently this will heal, if not they will see to it when they neuter. Other wise fine, only flea dirt came out of the comb. £85 poorer we went home pretty happy and with a "flea bomb" type spray for the house and a bag of, frankly tat which is branded with the food they support. Nevertheless we have put the frontline we got "free" on him. I'm not home tomorrow but will keep a close eye over the weekend. I usually know if we still have fleas as I get more bites than the cats

I gave Mojo some duck cat pate, and moved it a couple of inches closer to the door than her kibble, she didn't seem to notice. Went round and fed him and he was scratching at the door (to her) but she looked and then carried on eating.  I'm really quite happy with the progress we're making and he is currently sleepily watching TV whilst she chases insects upstairs and takes breaks to lounge.

 

[kissthisangel]

Again just using this thread to keep track really.

 when I got home from work today I played with charlie, like I have been doing the last few days, Mojo was sat outside the kitchen door, observing. I decided to grab the treat bags and do a closer introduction, with the gap in the door. She was a little hissy to begin with, then I realised she was getting protective of her chicken Jerky. So I grabbed the toy again and played with him she continued to eat. Eventually he got curious and approached the gap, she hissed a little, but didn't move, her ears were up, tail smooth. By this point her treats were gone so I wasn't expecting anything so positive but my hands were full with him. As I mentioned my partner works from home, he wasn't able to help as he was working.

Overall she was alright with it. I hung it up on the glass and they were both at the toy making no interaction between them through the glass. I thought this was great. I cracked the door open another quarter of an inch or so, so she could observe with more than one eye. She sat and preened whilst he played. Victory on that one.  Little sideways face and a curious paw came through the gap, he immediately pounced and she kind of tried to hiss and then sat down just withdrawing her paw.

Later after I played her out I was petting him, left the door open to his room, he was up on his bed on the table and she sniffed around on the floor, then I picked him up and she investigated his table bed. she made no ill moves toward him and she's gone back to her normal routine.

I'm home all weekend I feel that it's going so well that we should have a face to face intro. Supervised of course.

 

[red top rescue]

Sounds like you're doing a great job of avoiding any negative interactions.  Enjoy the long weekend with them.  Mutual play with a toy is often very helpful.

 

[AbbysMom]

IT sounds like it is going well. :cross:

 

[kissthisangel]

It was all going so well!

we've had two setbacks today. charlie was in my arms and I'd let Mojo in, Mojo started eating his kitten food (which I should have picked up before D'oh) , so I gave him to my partner, I picked up his food, Mojo wondered up to our table and say underneath, basically just minding her own business and sniffing the air. He leapt out of my partners arms and charged her, she froze apart from her tail which ballooned. I scooped him up and carried him back into his room, but she followed and was doing her human meow. As If to say I didn't want him to hurt me, comfort me which we did after.

Later I came out to the kitchen to check on something not realising the other door was open she wondered in, he was playing in the living room but they met from either side of the sofa. And this meant SURPRISE. Mojo was hissing and arching, I picked her up and she turned around to try and bite, but stopped before she got to me, I probably scared the living daylights out of her. I feel just awful, It's definately not her fault and she is not the aggressor, Charlie is. I should have removed him not her, as it's 'her' space.

She's just sat outside looking at him through the glass all evening whilst we've had him with us (her normal routine as I mentioned is to go up and kill insects in the bathroom). I feel like she wants to be friends but he's too forward and bouncy for her not to mention needlessly aggressive. He is certainly not afraid of her.

do I go back to Square one, or try another space swapping intro tomorrow?

 Edit: I almost feel like if she gave him a slap or two he might see his place, but then I''m wondering if he will become the dominant one and she will just have to tow the line. I also don't want any injuries. It's a tentative vibe in the house at the moment.

 

[kissthisangel]

Ok we did not have to go back to Square one. Maybe it was pushing our luck a little but he who dares and all. We've had the doors propped open about 2 inches. Mojo has been wondering around next to thd openings between the kitchen and the lounge our floor plan is like this :

cats.png

• kissthisangel
• Sep 3, 2016

The one between the kitchen and the hall is a sliding glass door (open), the one between the hall and the lounge is glass as well. (propped) and we've also had the door between the dining room and the kitchen propped. Any time he has gone up to the doors, they have looked at each other, she's had a go at swatting him, and failed. he's backed off and so has she.

I think he may turn out to be dominant eventually. I feel comfortable that we have this new arrangement. It will allow them to interact without constant supervision, but we will limit the time to half an hour or less at the moment untill the swatting stops. Whilst continuing with mutual play and the close treat feeding.

 

[Anne]

Thank you for sharing it all here. I'm sure it will help others down the road as well. 

Please be very careful when picking her up after their encounters. Redirected aggression can be sudden and very upsetting for all involved. It's best to let her be for a while, especially if you see her respond to his presence in any way, including just tensing up and looking for him. 

Other than that, like you said, patience is key here. It's perfectly normal for this to sometimes be a "one step forward and two back" thing. Keep calm and carry on, as they say 

 with the emphasis being on "keep calm". Cats pick up on our own tension/anxiety and it adds more stress. I would never advise anyone to let cats "fight it out" in lieu of proper introductions but there is a phase where a skirmish here or there is fine, as long as neither one of the cats is cornered. If that happens, above all, stay calm and don't try to hold any one of them in order to break apart the fight. 

Good luck and let us know how they're doing!

 

[kissthisangel]

Hi Anne, thank you for the advice.

we have had some real progress, she was crying and trying to get in at  the door, so we let them have their first face to face in the kitchen yesterday. she has been hissing at him, and she has tried to bop him on the head a couple of times, but he isn't deterred. There is also plenty of nose rubbing and sniffing going on. They are currently sharing some cat grass and playing with the rota cat toy together.

 We are going to keep the meets short and sweet but it appears to be going well. She looks alot less tense around him as well now. she will yawn and preen whilst he is there. I'll try and get some photos of them both up later.

 

[kissthisangel]

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• kissthisangel
• Sep 5, 2016

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• kissthisangel
• Sep 5, 2016

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• kissthisangel
• Sep 5, 2016

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• kissthisangel
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• kissthisangel
• Sep 5, 2016

sorry for the poor quality, it's my phone camera and I had to zoom in as we were sat down trying to be 'normal'.

 

[nurseangel]

Aw, what adorable kitties!  (And what a huge stash of cat grass; Speck picked his up out of the little cheap container I bought him and carried it through the house, roots and all, dirt falling everywhere.)  I agree that you are doing a wonderful job with your introductions.  DH and I have personally gone through good ones and bad.  Our first cat as a married couple was used to being the Only Cat.  When we brought home a kitten, naturally she was not thrilled. We set up shop for the kitten in the bathroom, and they were gradually introduced.  Siamie (Only Cat) hated him (Gizmo) at first, but before long she was treating him as if he was her own kitten.  (She was spayed and had never had kittens.)  

I believe after Mojo gets over that initial bit of Only Cat:  who-does-this-strange-cute-fluffy-little-creature-think-he-is-invading-my-space-eating--my-food-cuddling-up-to my-Human-Beans-and-how-dare-he? All will be right with the world and they'll be the best of friends.  

Keep us updated!  And yes, it's fine if you double post.    

 

[kissthisangel]

 
Aw, what adorable kitties!  (And what a huge stash of cat grass; Speck picked his up out of the little cheap container I bought him and carried it through the house, roots and all, dirt falling everywhere.)  I agree that you are doing a wonderful job with your introductions.  DH and I have personally gone through good ones and bad.  Our first cat as a married couple was used to being the Only Cat.  When we brought home a kitten, naturally she was not thrilled. We set up shop for the kitten in the bathroom, and they were gradually introduced.  Siamie (Only Cat) hated him (Gizmo) at first, but before long she was treating him as if he was her own kitten.  (She was spayed and had never had kittens.)  

I believe after Mojo gets over that initial bit of Only Cat:  who-does-this-strange-cute-fluffy-little-creature-think-he-is-invading-my-space-eating--my-food-cuddling-up-to my-Human-Beans-and-how-dare-he? All will be right with the world and they'll be the best of friends.  

Keep us updated!  And yes, it's fine if you double post.    

thank you. The cat grass is from CDS the range, it was only £1.99 it's looking a bit sad now actually, I didn't realise you have to trim it but the cats don't seem to mind at all.

We... Well I had a little bit of a set back earlier, about 9 pm our time (UK) my other half went out to the shop and we put both cats in the living/dining room with the door open between the two. Chaos ensued. Charlie likes running behind the sofa, as did Mojo when she was little, but she was trying to chase him. and she got stuck at one end. and he (I'm guessing now) turned to look at her. All I heard was hissing and kicking, but he came out unscathed the other side.  It's a shame but I will have to block the sofa runs off tomorrow before we let them meet again in this room at any rate.

As per Anne's post, you don't want either cat to feel cornered.  I probably should have known that behind the furniture is a hotspot for this. I don't feel so bad though, you can only live and learn. I picked up the feeding mat from the floor and body blocked her away so he could return to the room. Within a couple of minutes he was crying to get back in. I don't think there is any lasting ill effects.

I'm not sure now, is it my own concern that is holding them back, He's tiny, but he can already leap 4 foot, easily, he is much more agile and swift. than she is, but she can hit hard.

how long had you had Siamie before you introduced another cat? Was she very well established?

 

[kissthisangel]

Well, time for a daily update. I suffer very badly with Migraine, I was off work today. In bed until about 2, I woke up with Charlie pouncing on the covers, Mojo had been shut in the lounge. Its needed, he needs to explore the house and she was asleep anyway.

Later I did a meet, I had blocked the sofas, but she was still trying to chase him, I think it unnerves her that he runs everywhere. I've noticed that he does this to throw himself onto things which he wouldn't normally reach. there was no hissing though ( I do not know if this is an improvement really as there seems to be more physical blocking), we seem to have progressed to a swatting and chasing, and they are both giving it some. I believe this is an improvement. She will more than tolerate him until he moves. They nose rub and inch their paws closer but then back off again quickly after. He blinks at her as well. I hope  I'm right in thinking this is a good sign.

he used her litter tray, and to my surprise she did actually use it shortly after, which is great. It's also great because I hate the wood pellets they used in his previous home, they don't clump, they turn into dust and you can't scrape properly, so now we will be able to transition him to a classic clay type litter which we have always used for Mojo.

I'm hoping that I can make better judgements tomorrow when my brain isn't so fuzzy.

 

[kissthisangel]

My feliway friends diffuser came today. Not sure if it's making any difference. The vet said she swears by it for her cats. I'm glad she likes cats as she has to give Mojo injections in a couple of weeks and to be honest I think the vet will come off worse.

mostly the cats have been getting on really well today *touch wood* there have been a couple of slapping incidents

, I've been home all day again (still getting over my migraine). We've had them together a fair bit, when Mojo has had  enough of him she's just gone upstairs. He's still kitteny enough that he's interested in us,  so he won't go up there without us. there have been a couple of hissing battles mostly born out of suprise., but it's then followed by some nose tapping and laying down from both camps. I even felt comfortable enough to leave them unsupervised for one minute whilst I collected our takeaway from the door.

that said they have literally just came in from his room and he is looking more like a boss swiping at her heel. She's gone up and scratched on her post as if she wasn't even there. 

the cycle is, she chills out and then he stalks, he pounces and chases. then she turns about and hisses and he gets a bit scared and runs to the nearest human.

The battle for top cat continues.

 

[nurseangel]

 
thank you. The cat grass is from CDS the range, it was only £1.99 it's looking a bit sad now actually, I didn't realise you have to trim it but the cats don't seem to mind at all.

We... Well I had a little bit of a set back earlier, about 9 pm our time (UK) my other half went out to the shop and we put both cats in the living/dining room with the door open between the two. Chaos ensued. Charlie likes running behind the sofa, as did Mojo when she was little, but she was trying to chase him. and she got stuck at one end. and he (I'm guessing now) turned to look at her. All I heard was hissing and kicking, but he came out unscathed the other side.  It's a shame but I will have to block the sofa runs off tomorrow before we let them meet again in this room at any rate.

As per Anne's post, you don't want either cat to feel cornered.  I probably should have known that behind the furniture is a hotspot for this. I don't feel so bad though, you can only live and learn. I picked up the feeding mat from the floor and body blocked her away so he could return to the room. Within a couple of minutes he was crying to get back in. I don't think there is any lasting ill effects.

I'm not sure now, is it my own concern that is holding them back, He's tiny, but he can already leap 4 foot, easily, he is much more agile and swift. than she is, but she can hit hard.

how long had you had Siamie before you introduced another cat? Was she very well established?

We had Siamie probably a year or less before we got our kitten.  She had been in the home long enough to consider it hers and hers alone; she was especially jealous over DH, her obvious favorite.  

I really liked the Feliway plug-in when we introduced Daisy and Speck.  I apologize to the members who have already heard this story, but I had adopted Speck from the shelter.  He was probably just under a year old when Daisy came on the scene.  She showed up at the business next door to my husband's and the owner called animal control.  The business owner started to feel guilty, though he was one of these people that think the shelter finds a home for every animal they take in.  DH felt bad, too, and I started begging for her.  She had only three days before the gas chamber.  DH talked the animal shelter into keeping her an extra day so we could prepare.  She was taken immediately to the vet to be spayed because that's the animal shelter's terms here, then she came straight to our home, hurt and scared.  We couldn't even give her the pain medicine we bought from the vet, because we couldn't touch her.  I thought for the first few days she was a short haired cat with a bushy raccoon tail.  Later, I realized she just kept it bushed out.  She walked around with one paw up for which to hit us if we came to close.

Daisy hated us.  Not just Speck, DH and I as well.  She would start growling when I walked in the living room.  She knew her name was Daisy almost immediately and she hated her name!  If I said it, her tail would start to switch.  I believe she had been abused by a man, because all cats love my husband and she took to me first.  It was still a rocky road.  We probably should have kept them separated longer, but Speck was so scared of her that he steered clear anyway.  Once, however, she got mad at me and Speck jumped in between us.  She and Speck got into a horrible fight.  They both looked like Halloween cats, huge with their fur standing on end.  The story does have a happy ending, though.  It is years later and she is the most loving creature ever.  She and Speck are the best of friends.  It took a lot of patience but it all worked out so well.  I hope this will give you a bit of encouragement, because sometimes it seems like one step forward, two steps back with the introductions. Our cats were polar opposites; one sweet boy who had been treated like a baby since he was kitten and one streetwise semi-feral, aggressive adult female.  It took maybe two or three months before they adjusted, but it was really extreme with her, she was almost like a wild animal.  They are both sleeping peacefully on the bed as I write this, not a care in the world.  

 

[kissthisangel]

 

I'm so glad that Daisy had a happy ending, what a tough time she must have had trying to trust again Thank you for sharing the story.

We've had massive improvements today, there has been very minimal hissing. They have been playing chase and racing about after one another.  He stalks after her trying to look clever and then as soon as she turns around to look at him he runs away chirruping, she chases him, and he kind of looks back and goads her on, but she is chasing with some vigor. I think my partner is worried she is going to hurt him, but she isn't even swiping him anymore. it's just the size difference that's unnerving.

I know she is feeling more comfortable as she has dropped her tail to a relaxed position and has been blinking at him. I think in this case it was just a matter of time to let them get used to having a new play mate. I'm still shutting him in at night but they've had free reign of downstairs supervised all day.