Can food or Kibble?

[roxie]

I keep reading posts that say kibble is bad for cats. Why is that? Is there something toxic in it? My cats eat can food and kibble. I want to do what's best for them.

 

[vball91]

Cats, being obligate carnivores, must source their nutrition from animal sources. In addition, they are geared to get most of their moisture from their food and have a low thirst drive. Dry kibble is just not species-appropriate food. This site written by a vet explains in more detail www.catinfo.org.

 

[lilin]

I keep reading posts that say kibble is bad for cats. Why is that? Is there something toxic in it? My cats eat can food and kibble. I want to do what's best for them.

There's a couple reasons dry food isn't very good. For especially low quality foods, there may be even more problems, but these two apply to just about every dry food.

1. Practically no moisture. Cats are dry-weather critters, and they have a very low thirst drive. They won't drink any substantial amount of water until they are very dehydrated. A cat on dry food, therefore, is usually chronically dehydrated, which can lead to urinary and kidney problems.

2. Cats aren't very good at processing carbs that are in dry foods. Cats who eat dry tend to put on more weight more easily than they would on a lower carb food. Cat obesity is a serious problem, and partly that's just due to over-feeding, but it's also due to what people are feeding.

Wet food has a high moisture content, and if you get a decent quality wet food, it has very few carbs.

There are crappy wet foods that are stuffed with carbs, so you do want to make sure that in the first few ingredients, you see nothing but meat, meat, meat (organs are good too)! The website vball posted is very good.

 

[roxie]

Thank you both. I'll check out the website now. They eat can food twice a day. It's usually Friskies or 9-Lives. I'm pretty sure those wouldn't be considered decent quality. I'll have to read the labels and find one that's healthy. Can they eat any dry food, or would that be bad? I have seven cats, most were strays that showed up here. All are spayed or neutered except the most recent one that showed up a couple of months ago. He was just a kitten, but should be old enough to be neutered now. I can't afford to do the raw diet with that many cats.

 

[lilin]

Thank you both. I'll check out the website now. They eat can food twice a day. It's usually Friskies or 9-Lives. I'm pretty sure those wouldn't be considered decent quality. I'll have to read the labels and find one that's healthy. Can they eat any dry food, or would that be bad? I have seven cats, most were strays that showed up here. All are spayed or neutered except the most recent one that showed up a couple of months ago. He was just a kitten, but should be old enough to be neutered now. I can't afford to do the raw diet with that many cats.

As far as big-box wet foods, I know Friskies grilled is pretty good. So is Fancy Feast pate. Not sure about 9 Lives. Yeah, there are much more expensive wet foods that are probably better, but there are a couple good options that are more affordable/readily available.

I think getting dry food consumption as low as possible is ideal. The more of their food contains moisture, the more they will get. Some wet food is always much better than none though.

If you have some freezer space a couple hours every couple months, homemaking raw is pretty cheap -- cheaper than wet, from what I've heard. The initial investment is bigger, but the costs come down a lot once you've gotten that out of the way.

If that's not possible, then maximizing meaty wet food is a good option.

 

[peaches08]

I have 3 cats and my initial investment in a grinder and upright deep freezer paid for themselves in about 8 months. I feed Dr. Pierson's chicken thighs recipe at less than $1/day for all 3 cats combined. I buy meats on sale and freeze until I need to make their food.

Before raw, I bought the same canned foods you feed but I also bought store brands as well (read labels!). I watched for sales and used coupons when I could.

 

[Willowy]

I have a lot of cats (a lot!) and I feed them mainly canned Friskies. It isn't the very best canned food, no, but it is mostly meat/meat by-products and is lower-carb than almost any dry food.

Of course dry food is cheaper and more convenient. So sometimes people might need to feed some kibble. I wouldn't recommend less than 50% canned.

Many raw feeders say they can feed their pets raw for less than canned food. I think it would take a fair amount of practice and quick access to the stores so you can check frequently for short-dated sale meat to do it really cheaply. But I do feed my cats some raw, and one of the cats gets a homecooked diet exclusively (she won't eat raw or canned, and can't eat dry due to urinary problems). And it's really not very expensive. Slightly more than Friskies, I think, but less than a higher-quality canned food. The reason I don't feed more raw/homecooked is more of a sourcing problem than a price problem :/.

 

[Willowy]

As far as big-box wet foods, I know Friskies grilled is pretty good.

Not grilled---pate . Any cheap "chunks in gravy"-type food will be higher in carbs than a pate style. But I don't think Friskies even comes in a "grilled" option anyway. . .

 

[lilin]

Not grilled---pate

. Any cheap "chunks in gravy"-type food will be higher in carbs than a pate style. But I don't think Friskies even comes in a "grilled" option anyway. . .

Thanks! I think there are a couple, but I must have gotten them mixed up.

 

[roxie]

Guess what kind of wet food my cats like the best. They love shredded, filets, nibbles, cuts, chunks and slices. About the only pâté they will eat is 9-Lives tuna with egg and cheese. How do you even begin to wean them off dry food? That's something that's always out if they want to snack until time for the wet food. None of them are obese, but I am having problems with my 14 year old male. He throws up at least once a day. I noticed he does it more if he eats the dry meow mix or dry friskies. I've been buying him either Iams or Science Diet in the dry, but half the time he won't eat it. When he does, he doesn't seem to throw up as often.

 

[roxie]

I have 3 cats and my initial investment in a grinder and upright deep freezer paid for themselves in about 8 months. I feed Dr. Pierson's chicken thighs recipe at less than $1/day for all 3 cats combined. I buy meats on sale and freeze until I need to make their food.

Before raw, I bought the same canned foods you feed but I also bought store brands as well (read labels!). I watched for sales and used coupons when I could.

 

[roxie]

Peaches, do you use the grinder for meat? I know that's a stupid question, but I know nothing about feeding raw or home cooked.

 

[peaches08]

Peaches, do you use the grinder for meat? I know that's a stupid question, but I know nothing about feeding raw or home cooked.

It's not a stupid question at all. Some raw feeders feed bone in meats, or buy ground meats from raw feeding sources like Hare Today, and etc.

I use the grinder to grind raw meat and bone. I also chunk the meat and/or add gizzards for dental benefits. Before I got my grinder (back ordered at the time) I just
chunked meat by hand and added premix to it. I didn't know that I could use Dr. P's supplement recipe and just add finely crushed eggshells for calcium. Now I do!

 

[Willowy]

Guess what kind of wet food my cats like the best. They love shredded, filets, nibbles, cuts, chunks and slices. About the only pâté they will eat is 9-Lives tuna with egg and cheese. How do you even begin to wean them off dry food? That's something that's always out if they want to snack until time for the wet food. None of them are obese, but I am having problems with my 14 year old male. He throws up at least once a day. I noticed he does it more if he eats the dry meow mix or dry friskies. I've been buying him either Iams or Science Diet in the dry, but half the time he won't eat it. When he does, he doesn't seem to throw up as often.

Well, ya know, the ingredients aren't so bad and they're not THAT much higher in carbs. If that's what they like, use it for helping them transition off dry. One way to wean them off dry food is to start limiting their dry. Don't fill the bowl; just put out enough for one meal. Let them be a teensy bit hungry between meals. Then start feeding on a meal schedule. It's not so bad really. I kind of went cold turkey with my cats, and they whined about it a bit but it wasn't terrible.

You also might want to go with a higher-quality dry food, too. A lot of cats don't handle food colorings or a lot of grains. I don't know what stores are near you so it's difficult to make specific recommendations but look for meat as the first ingredient and no food coloring.

 

[peaches08]

I agree with Willowy about those canned varieties. I'd much rather a cat have shreds and such over dry kibble.

Your 14 year old that's vomiting, does he vomit on canned? Is it hairballs or something else like IBS?

 

[roxie]

Every now and then it's a hair ball. He won't eat any can food except the 9- lives tuna, egg and cheese. I give them that about once a week. Sometimes when he vomits it stains the carpet. No matter what I put on it or how hard I scrub, it won't come up. I don't know if it's IBS or what. My vet will be in tomorrow, so I'm going to get him up there if I can catch him. The minute that carrier comes out they all disappear! I'm really worried about him though. He used to weigh around 17 pounds. I bet he doesn't weigh but 10 or 11 now. It's been a gradual weight loss. He's long haired, so it's not as noticeable unless I pet him or pick him up. Every time I start to take him in he seems to get a little better, so I end up waiting. He gets so stressed riding, but I need to know what's causing the problem.

 

[peaches08]

That much weight loss...I'd definitely take him to the vet. Is he drinking more water than before?

 

[roxie]

Yes, he drinks more than he used to. I hope it's nothing serious, but I'm afraid it is. He likes his temptation treats and his greenies. If he doesn't want those I know he really feels bad. That's something else I've saw on some posts, that greenies could cause either IBD or pancreatitis. I can't remember which one it was. Have you heard anything about greenies?

 

[maewkaew]

 The most common causes for a cat to lose weight and drink / pee more than used to are kidney disease , diabetes and hyperthyroidism.   These are all treatable,  and in fact diabetic cats often go into a sort of remission if the cat is put on a very low carb diet  and a long-acting insulin for a while to keep their blood glucose under control so their pancreas can start to heal.   then they can just be kept on the low carb diet and stop the insulin.

 Yeah I agree, it is a good idea to take him for a vet exam with a senior cat lab panel  just to check and find if something is going on,  because  if he does have some health problem it is best to catch it before it gets worse.

I learned a lot from Dr. Pierson's site catinfo.org that has already been linked.

Re the cat carrier fear,   I just leave a cat carrier out all the time with a blanket in it,  so they see it more as a comfy little den   and don't only associate it with the vet.   ( actually the crazy cats  i have now love going to the vet!  More people to give them attention!  But this  also helped when i had a shyer rescue cat who did NOT like going to the vet.) 

 

[irinasak]

Let us know what the vet said. I hope there is nothing too serious.

Regarding the diet, here are the ingredients for Friskies dry indoor:

Ground yellow corn, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, meat and bone meal, soybean meal, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), turkey by-product meal, powdered cellulose, animal liver flavor, soybean hulls, malt extract, phosphoric acid, calcium carbonate, salt, choline chloride, potassium chloride, dried cheese powder, parsley flakes, added color, taurine, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, Yellow 6, manganese sulfate, niacin, Yellow 5, Red 40, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, Blue 2, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. E-6002

And the Iams dry:

Dried chicken & turkey (40%), corn, wheat, animal fat, dried beet pulp (1.8%), chicken, fructooligosaccharides (0.69%), potassium chloride, dried whole egg, brewer's yeast, fish oil (0.38%), calcium carbonate.

And a wet food, not the greatest but on the higher end (I have chosen Catz as I am from Europe and do not have access to most US foods):

Chicken & Pheasant: 50% chicken (approx. 70% heart & lean meat, 2/3 meat and 1/3 heart; approx. 30% offal, of which 1/2 liver and 1/2 lung), 24.15% water , 20% pheasant (approx. 70% heart & lean meat, of which approx. 1/2 meat and 1/2 heart, 30% offal, approx. 1/2 liver and 1/2 lung), 3% rice, 2% watercress, 0.5% dandelion, 0.2% evening primrose oil, 0.15% taurine

The wet has rice and dandelion, but you know exactly the percentage and all the ingredients (offall and such).

I am sure you know that corn and soybean and wheat should not be part of a cat's diet. In Friskies corn is in the first listed ingredients!

Guess what kind of wet food my cats like the best. They love shredded, filets, nibbles, cuts, chunks and slices. About the only pâté they will eat is 9-Lives tuna with egg and cheese. How do you even begin to wean them off dry food? That's something that's always out if they want to snack until time for the wet food.

I would strongly advice to transition them to scheduled feeding, especially since you have more then one cat. I can not emphasize enough the benefits: you always know how much each is eating. If one skips two meals, than it is obvious there is something wrong. They will lose some weight during the process and it will be hard if you go this way, but after they understand the schedule, feeding time will be such a pleasure for everyone. If you will have to put any of them on a special diet (for example, the senior cat seems to have some grains allergies), it will be so much easier if everyone is on scheduled feeding. There is really no other way to control the food intake. catinfo.org holds a lot of information, as it was already said. On schedule, their stomachs will have time to empty and not work all the time. And when hunger strikes in, they will be much more willing to taste new foods.