C/D "Urinary" food vs non-perscription

[jclark]

Can someone provide any insight as to what makes c/d food better than non-prescription which has similar phosphorus levels?

C/D Hills Urinary Stress vs say Young Again zero Mature.

One of our cats has been on/off developing bacterial UTI's and our vet has said we need to feed them some sort of urinary food. I'm not happy about it because of the price/protein ratio. I'm paying a lot of money for what appears to be mediocre cat food. Especially when I'm feeding 2 adult Main Coons.

 

[Alldara]

I did not notice a health difference in my cat when using the prescription vs non-prescription version.

When going through them previously, I noted that the prescription version had slightly different amounts of things than the non-prescription. It's been a long time since I checked, but that's the comparison. I believe that even the order of some ingredients was different, and the order is done by how much of something is inside the food.

 

[FeebysOwner]

What besides bacterial Issues does your cat have? Blood, protein, etc. in the urine? Does your cat have sediment in his urine, or crystals? If the bacteria is the only issue, I do not think urinary care food will do much. Do you know what type of bacteria is typically found in his urine?

Feeby was getting frequent bacterial 'UTIs' - no sediment, blood, protein, etc. in her urine. In most cases, the bacterium was identified as e-coli. I started her on pure D-Mannose, which is a form of sugar that bacteria adhere to so that they are flushed out with urination, reducing the amount of bacteria that resides in the bladder. It is effective for a number of different types of bacteria.
D-Mannose For UTI: Dosage, Benefits, Side Effects (liveutifree.com)
This is the one I buy, but there are other brands too.
Amazon.com: UTI Pets Pure D-Mannose Non GMO Organic Source Powder 65gram jar : Pet Supplies

Many folks on this site also consider D-Mannose to be a good product for overall bladder health as well.

The urinary care foods are generally lower in not only phosphorus, but also magnesium and calcium, which are the minerals that typically attribute to the creation of crystals. They are also purported to help balance urine PH which is also a contributor to crystals. Aside from that I am not sure what is in the urinary care foods that specifically help otherwise. It is particularly hard since they seem to want to claim the 'helpful' ingredients are 'proprietary'.

Added water intake and feeding a wet food diet, over a dry one, are probably the primary aids in bladder health - i.e. moisture!!

 

[Alldara]

For bacteria UTIs, did your vet check her mouth? They can gain bacteria UTIs from cleaning themselves and their mouth having a minor infection. This can be solved with a veterinarian dental cleaning and prevented in the future with regular tooth brushing.

Another way to help prevent is by sanitizing your litter boxes monthly. You can use any cleaner that doesn't contain bleach but is known to reduce bacterias. I recommend Lysol foaming bathroom cleaner. Rinse well afterwards

 

[jclark]

Not sure on type of bacteria.
No crystals of an amount which would cause concern. I'll double check tomorrow.
Dental health is a good suggestion. I'll look this afternoon.

His diet has always been mix wet/dry 2x day plus a dry only feeding in afternoon. He's a drinker as well.

They've always used crystal litter and only he uses his box.

Vet stated FLUTD due to stress. Ths condition presents as flare ups. He's not too heavy at 20lbs.

 

[Mac and Cats]

Hills is probably going to have the lowest phosphorus of the non-prescription variety. You can look at their website and scroll down to the nutrition and see the phosphorous levels. We had a cat with urinary crystals (actually had a blockage) and we fed him prescription for a bit and then switched to non-prescription urinary. This is purely anecdotal but he never had an issue again. We also tried to feed him more wet food than he was eating previously after his incident, which I think will help a lot too. After a while mostly fed him the Purina urinary (dry and wet food), but we also fed him the Hills urinary in the non-prescription form. At the time, phosphorus wasn't even on my mind. But the Hills Urinary wet food and also Purina Pro Plan Focus Chicken Entree (77% DMB, I got this directly from Purina last year or the year before. WARNING: The other wet food flavors of Purina Urinary are MUCH higher.) are going to have the lowest phosphorus amounts. It's frequently out of stock on Chewy, but if you sign up to be notified when it's back and then sign up for autoship, you'll be less likely to run into them being out of stock. I think they keep a small reserve of foods for the auto ship people. We lost our cat almost a year ago (unrelated issue) and I just canceled his autoship a couple weeks ago because we had another cat that liked it until he didn't anymore for whatever reason.

 

[Alldara]

Vet stated FLUTD due to stress. Ths condition presents as flare ups. He's not too heavy at 20lbs.

FLUTD is normally flare ups without infection. Though it can make them more prone to infection, that's normally if they have crystals.

Your original post mentioned he's getting bacterial UTIs. That's not flare ups due to stress. That's flare ups due to bacteria.

Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) | International Cat Care

i couldn't see litter crystals contributing to the situation as it's.made for cats with frequent infections. Unless he's not found of how they feel and then he may not go as frequently as he should, allowing the bacteria to build up in his bladder.
in any case, I recommend sanitizing the litter once a month for all cats. But since he's prone to bacterial infections of any kind, I doubley recommend it.

you may want to try a different litter in another box to see if he goes more in that box. Then you'll know if he likes the litter. Just grab a disposable box and put anything that is not clay or pine in it and see after a.month what he uses more frequently.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hills is probably going to have the lowest phosphorus of the non-prescription variety.

Weruva WX has a phos level that's extremely low as well, and it's also non-prescription

Flutd or otherwise, it would probably be beneficial if you can get both cats to drink more. There's this article that has some good tips, and just in case it's helpful, Purina formulated a product to help adjust the urine specific gravity in cats with Flutd. You might talk to your vet about it.

Tips To Increase Your Cat’s Water Intake - TheCatSite Articles

 

[zoes]

Are you 100% sure they are bacterial UTIs? Since you mentioned it, I will assume so.

I feel like your vet is just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks in getting you to switch to this food. Bacterial UTIs should be treated with the appropriate abx based on a urine culture, and of course generally good bladder health habits (wet food for frequent bladder flushings, an inviting litter and area so he's not holding urine for longer than necessary.)

If I were you, I'd rather spend my money on exploring why he's getting recurring infections (getting a urine culture done if they haven't already, monitoring litter habits), identifying the potential causes, and addressing those. I would not feed that food unless the vet was able to convince me how and why it would help more than any old wet food.

 

[jclark]

FLUTD is normally flare ups without infection. Though it can make them more prone to infection, that's normally if they have crystals.

Your original post mentioned he's getting bacterial UTIs. That's not flare ups due to stress. That's flare ups due to bacteria.

Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) | International Cat Care

i couldn't see litter crystals contributing to the situation as it's.made for cats with frequent infections. Unless he's not found of how they feel and then he may not go as frequently as he should, allowing the bacteria to build up in his bladder.
in any case, I recommend sanitizing the litter once a month for all cats. But since he's prone to bacterial infections of any kind, I doubley recommend it.

you may want to try a different litter in another box to see if he goes more in that box. Then you'll know if he likes the litter. Just grab a disposable box and put anything that is not clay or pine in it and see after a.month what he uses more frequently.

Ya he said large male cats are predisposed to suffering from bacterial UTI's. Stress induced inflammation of the bladder can make a UTI worse.

 

[jclark]

Weruva WX has a phos level that's extremely low as well, and it's also non-prescription

Flutd or otherwise, it would probably be beneficial if you can get both cats to drink more. There's this article that has some good tips, and just in case it's helpful, Purina formulated a product to help adjust the urine specific gravity in cats with Flutd. You might talk to your vet about it.

Tips To Increase Your Cat’s Water Intake - TheCatSite Articles

Individually the cats are fed 2/3 cup dry + 3 oz wet (mixed). Plus they have a 1.5 gallon water fountain running 24/7. They drink a lot of water judging by how much they urinate.

 

[Alldara]

Ya he said large male cats are predisposed to suffering from bacterial UTI's. Stress induced inflammation of the bladder can make a UTI worse.

Have any of the tips been working for you at all? How are you both doing?

 

[jclark]

Are you 100% sure they are bacterial UTIs? Since you mentioned it, I will assume so.

I feel like your vet is just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks in getting you to switch to this food. Bacterial UTIs should be treated with the appropriate abx based on a urine culture, and of course generally good bladder health habits (wet food for frequent bladder flushings, an inviting litter and area so he's not holding urine for longer than necessary.)

If I were you, I'd rather spend my money on exploring why he's getting recurring infections (getting a urine culture done if they haven't already, monitoring litter habits), identifying the potential causes, and addressing those. I would not feed that food unless the vet was able to convince me how and why it would help more than any old wet food.

Yes. 100 percent. UTI combined with or w/out inflammation of the bladder. PH is high but no crystal formation.

Large cats, male cats, and cats over 10 yrs of age are in general prone to developing reoccurring UTI's. That's just the way it is. This particular cat is all three attributes. The problem with figure out the cause is that once you've eliminated the low hanging fruit (litter type, food, hydration) you're left with psychological issues (Stress, Boredom) which are extremely difficult to remedy.

It could be:
Separation anxiety combined with having cat sitters come in and feed them twice a day could be the cause for a flare up.
Stress given off by the humans in the house.
The vacuum cleaner once a week.
That he's bored of the 20 different cat toys which are available to him.
A dog which came to house one week prior.
The other cat.

 

[jclark]

Have any of the tips been working for you at all? How are you both doing?

It's a wait an see sort of thing. Clear up the UTI, change something (in this case the food), and see how he does. Vet said it's a process of elimination really. With FLUTD the flare ups are completely random.

 

[Alldara]

Yes. 100 percent. UTI combined with or w/out inflammation of the bladder. PH is high but no crystal formation.

Large cats, male cats, and cats over 10 yrs of age are in general prone to developing reoccurring UTI's. That's just the way it is. This particular cat is all three attributes. The problem with figure out the cause is that once you've eliminated the low hanging fruit (litter type, food, hydration) you're left with psychological issues (Stress, Boredom) which are extremely difficult to remedy.

It could be:
Separation anxiety combined with having cat sitters come in and feed them twice a day could be the cause for a flare up.
Stress given off by the humans in the house.
The vacuum cleaner once a week.
That he's bored of the 20 different cat toys which are available to him.

I found "vacuum treats" very helpful to training our old man out of the stress around it.

Did they check his teeth for infection? Sorry I can't remember if I asked that here or another thread. A tooth infection can be passed to the bladder when cleaning.

I remember a new study was saying that they tested asymptomatic elderly cats and many had infections too..it's very common.

He is 10. Did they try any arthritis medication?

Feline Idiopathic Cystitis (FIC) | International Cat Care

Cats don't really play at much with static toys on their own. I recommend a variety of toys to rotate through. Scheduling playtime twice a day is vital to cats with FLUTD, especially those that need to lower their weight.

Nobel really loved a having a couple of electronic toys too. The spinner one was a great hit, plus this one where a mouse circles a track.

Cat-TV is available in the virtual sense (TV or tablet - I recommend Discovery Channel's Small creatures or whatever it's called) as well as by giving window perchs and encouraging things to happen outside these perches like growing flowers to attract bees or birds or having a bird feeder.

 

[Alldara]

It's a wait an see sort of thing. Clear up the UTI, change something (in this case the food), and see how he does. Vet said it's a process of elimination really. With FLUTD the flare ups are completely random.

Nobel had FLUTD his whole life. The flares aren't random they just seem that way to us until we isolate the causes.

Enrichment is key as enrichment is how a cat handles stress and burns off that stress energy. It also lowers the weight which contributes, and increases mobility (lower mobility means making their way over the the litter better and more frequently).

I'd encourage you to ensure there's a litter on every level of the home if there are multiple, and consider some area rugs here and there as your cat ages. Mobility reduces as they get older, so we have to account for that as they age to reduce returns of FLUTD flare ups. Carpet allows them to gain traction and you might notice him playing a bit more too if you have non-carpet floors currently.

Nobel had no flare ups for his last 7 years of life. It took some time, but I'm so grateful for the vet that taught me how key enrichment was. It was the game changer.

 

[jclark]

I found "vacuum treats" very helpful to training our old man out of the stress around it.

Did they check his teeth for infection? Sorry I can't remember if I asked that here or another thread. A tooth infection can be passed to the bladder when cleaning.

I remember a new study was saying that they tested asymptomatic elderly cats and many had infections too..it's very common.

He is 10. Did they try any arthritis medication?

Feline Idiopathic Cystitis (FIC) | International Cat Care

Cats don't really play at much with static toys on their own. I recommend a variety of toys to rotate through. Scheduling playtime twice a day is vital to cats with FLUTD, especially those that need to lower their weight.

Nobel really loved a having a couple of electronic toys too. The spinner one was a great hit, plus this one where a mouse circles a track.

Cat-TV is available in the virtual sense (TV or tablet - I recommend Discovery Channel's Small creatures or whatever it's called) as well as by giving window perchs and encouraging things to happen outside these perches like growing flowers to attract bees or birds or having a bird feeder.

Teeth are fine.
No arthritis medication. We did reduce is weight down to 20 lbs from 27 lbs. He has a huge frame being that went from 5 to a 4 on 1-10 scale (10 obese)
We've done cat TV, but TBH he spends most of his day around us.
Perhaps we'll try an electronic toy.
As far as windows are concerned they have 5 windows on opposite sides of the townhome (Front/Back, different floors). We have a bird feeder at one of the windows.

 

[jclark]

Nobel had FLUTD his whole life. The flares aren't random they just seem that way to us until we isolate the causes.

Enrichment is key as enrichment is how a cat handles stress and burns off that stress energy. It also lowers the weight which contributes, and increases mobility (lower mobility means making their way over the the litter better and more frequently).

I'd encourage you to ensure there's a litter on every level of the home if there are multiple, and consider some area rugs here and there as your cat ages. Mobility reduces as they get older, so we have to account for that as they age to reduce returns of FLUTD flare ups. Carpet allows them to gain traction and you might notice him playing a bit more too if you have non-carpet floors currently.

Nobel had no flare ups for his last 7 years of life. It took some time, but I'm so grateful for the vet that taught me how key enrichment was. It was the game changer.

We cannot put litter boxes on every floor. His littler box is in an extra room (carpeted). His brothers litter box is in an extra bathroom. They've always used their own litterbox and both are in the quietest and most private areas of the house.

They have three scratching posts (one on every floor).

They have a ton of windows to look out.

They have quiet places to nap.

They don't fight over food or water.

The problem child does routinely nag the other one however but we're trying to address that with Feliway. (sp)

 

[Alldara]

Congratulations on the weight loss journey. That's a big step!

Litter should be 1 per cat plus one. (With respect, he has FLUTD, so it's not without issue). Most cats prefer to poo and pee in separate spaces. Having the extra box lowers stress.

FLUTD cats need to be encouraged to never hold their pee for long times. That means lots of fluids and lots of litter options.

For carpet, I just mean throughout the home on the cat's pathways We had to add one to our hallway and an area rug to our living space to encourage him to move around more.

You've got some good enrichment going on already, so now you need to find some new Nobel enrichment ideas and rotate through them. You likely experienced quarentine or heard others talk about it. Especially considering how creative people got with their own enrichment during that time and then remember that cats spend their whole lives in quarentine.

Here's a good place to start, but really take a look around. Also aim for at least 20 minutes of human playtime over two sessions if not already.
Feline DIY Enrichment

This video has some good tips that related to FLUTD as well.

 

[Furballsmom]

Where's the harm in trying some of the tips in this article?

Tips To Increase Your Cat’s Water Intake - TheCatSite Articles