Bringing Hope out of her shell?

carolina

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I hope you can help us, my problem is a bit complicated to fix, I think, due to my lifestyle....
About Hope:
Hope is 5 years old, has been with me for three years. She was a feral kitty, was trapped pregnant, taken to the shelter and had a spay abortion. She was then pulled by a rescue where she lived for a little while. I was called in to foster her as she wasn't doing well - in fact, she was so shy with the other cats, she wasn't even getting to the food bowl.... She was 24x7 hiding under the couch.
She flourished in my house, and became a total lap cat - as long as she approaches me. As the typical shy/semi-feral, I still can't approach her standing up, do sudden movements towards her, and she startles very easily with any noise.
She does come to me if I am sitting down, or lying on bed.
She is also best buddies with Lucky, my other cat. Not so much with Bugsy (I have 3 cats).
The problem I am having now is that my lifestyle has changed quite a bit, and she is having a hard time adjusting to it.
My work requires me to travel 3 weeks out of the month – Monday-Thursday, weekends and the fourth weekend at home.
I do have a live-in pet sitter that is absolutely loving to them stay here while I am gone, so their routine is not broken as much as possible. Their feeding schedule (they eat raw 3 times a day) remains the same, and they have someone to play and to give them attention.
Hope has started to hide more and more since my work schedule changed. She also started to be bullied by Bugsy, an otherwise absolutely sweet and lovely to the “T” Ragdoll.
She has had a clean bill of health – senior panel done, urinalysis, the works – twice. Nothing wrong with her.
Bugsy usually bullies her during meal times (he is VERY food driven, and obese). They eat next to each other.
Hope comes out for all meals, and sometimes to play with Lucky, she does come to me at bed time, but more often than not she is hiding under the bed.
While I live in a small one bedroom apartment, I have tons of vertical space with cat trees, window sills, an entire wall of wall shelves, etc.
Things that are not an option for me are rehoming any of them, or changing my job – aside from that, what can I do to make her a bit more comfortable with this situation?
Oh, yes – I also have Feliway on the walls.
Thank you so much!!

EDIT: I should probably mention that Bugsy's bulling usually happens while I am preparing their meals, and not while they are actually eating - during meal times they are fine.... If he approaches, she hisses and he stands back. She holds her own.
 
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burretje

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Play is good for building a cat's confidence. So try and see if it is possible to play more with her. Make sure you play a game in which she can catch a "prey". 

Also I'd start locking the cats outside of the kitchen (or in your bedroom if that is not possible) when you are preparing meals. See if this helps with the bullying. You might also try to feed her in a different location than the other cats. 
 
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carolina

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I am leaving on an international trip on Saturday, and I was wondering if there is anything I should do now..... as they will be with a brand new sitter for 8 days.... I am nervous about that....
Thanks again :wavey:
 
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johnson-bennett

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Your job change is certainly having a major impact on Hope. I understand it's not something you can change but we've got to create some elevated level of security for her.

It sounds as though you're doing so many things right and that you're very tuned into Hope's needs. What I would add is creating some tunnels or hideaways for her through the apartment so she doesn't feel that her only option is under a bed or in a closet. On a cat tree or on bookshelf or cat perch I would try placing an "A" frame bed or donut-shaped bed so she will feel somewhat protected but still feel she can venture out from under the bed.

Keep the cats separated during mealtime preparation to reduce the intimidation factor.

If possible, can your pet sitter come over while you're there so she can conduct some games with Hope? It might be a way of creating a "co-parenting" (for lack of a better word) situation so Hope develops a little more security.

You may also want to talk to your veterinarian about the possibility of using some anti-anxiety medication. If Hope will let you pet her, you could use a transdermal delivery system to reduce her stress so you wouldn't have to pill her.

I am also a big fan of clicker training because it helps a cat focus on behaviors that get results. I've seen how cats really start thinking differently and put their fears aside as a result of operant conditioning. It's worth a try. Your pet sitter could also continue it which would be very helpful.

Pam Johnson-Bennett, CCBC

www.catbehaviorassociates.com
 
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carolina

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Since my original post I have done one change that seems to be helping some - Hope has been out quite a bit more, and the bullying has been reduced significantly:
I moved Bugsy's feeding spot to a locked room. Now Hope eats next to her buddy Lucky, and Bugsy, who used to bully her, eats in a separate room. I only let him out when Hope and Lucky are done, and the plates have been removed from the floor, so he can not associate them with extra food that he is not getting.
It seems to be helping, although they are still confused as they were very set on their routines.

Below are my responses - further questions:

Your job change is certainly having a major impact on Hope. I understand it's not something you can change but we've got to create some elevated level of security for her. I agree completely :nod:

It sounds as though you're doing so many things right and that you're very tuned into Hope's needs. What I would add is creating some tunnels or hideaways for her through the apartment so she doesn't feel that her only option is under a bed or in a closet. On a cat tree or on bookshelf or cat perch I would try placing an "A" frame bed or donut-shaped bed so she will feel somewhat protected but still feel she can venture out from under the bed. My cat tree has a hide-out spot, and I also have some hide-away places around the house as well. I will invest in some tunnels that she can use to get through the house - thanks for the idea :bigthumb:

Keep the cats separated during mealtime preparation to reduce the intimidation factor. ok, I will do so

If possible, can your pet sitter come over while you're there so she can conduct some games with Hope? It might be a way of creating a "co-parenting" (for lack of a better word) situation so Hope develops a little more security. Yes, I can arrange that

You may also want to talk to your veterinarian about the possibility of using some anti-anxiety medication. If Hope will let you pet her, you could use a transdermal delivery system to reduce her stress so you wouldn't have to pill her. Hope is a total sweetheart, and love pets. She will come to me, put her both paws up so I can take her on my lap - so the answer is yes! I just need to do it on her terms and approach her very slowly.... then let her come to me. I will discuss with my vet some natural alternative, as that is something I would prefer instead of drugs.... At least as a first step.

I am also a big fan of clicker training because it helps a cat focus on behaviors that get results. I've seen how cats really start thinking differently and put their fears aside as a result of operant conditioning. It's worth a try. Your pet sitter could also continue it which would be very helpful. This is where my biggest question is. My cats are on raw - the only possible treat they would eat, would be Freeze dry chicken. That would be ok...... BUT - I have been trying to get Bugsy to lose weight - and let me tell ya. NOT an easy task. He is one of those that will put on 5lbs by eating wind. He is 17.5lbs and eating only 4.8oz of raw - yet, he is losing weight very slowly (partially because, I know the sitter doesn't watch him as well as I do, and he flat out steals the other kids foods while I am traveling :rolleyes:) But, my point is, I really shouldn't be adding calories to his diet.... Can clicker training be done with ANYTHING but food? Freeze Dry Chicken is Calorie packed.... And he does need to lose another 1.5lb.... He has IBD, so other treats are out of the question. How many seesions does it need to be done a day, for how often? Is any clicker training better than none?

Thanks Pam!!

Pam Johnson-Bennett, CCBC
www.catbehaviorassociates.com
 
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carolina

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Tonight I closed the kitchen door as I was preparing dinner - Bugsy was indeed calmer.... and didn't attempt to attack Hope in the way to the feeding room.

As I said, the bulling has decreased considerably since I started locking Bugsy up for meals. I think this is a major change..... Hope has been out all day today - up in the cat tree, around the house, or sitting on my lap as I worked in my home office :clap: (Luckily, when I am not traveling, I work at home, which is a bonus :bigthumb:)
I think With the tunnels, safe meal prep times, and safe feeding stations, things might get better.

I will start scheduling play times with the sitters while I am home, that is a good idea.

Do you think clicker training is still a necessity? What about the questions I have about obesity?

Thank you so much!!

EDIT: Spoke too soon :( Hope was out in the cat tree, and when she came down, Bugsy ran and pinned her to the floor. A fight broke in. There were hisses, screams, and bites. No blood. I "broke it by standing up and firmly saying "Uh-Uh" as I approached. That's my warning sign for them. Bugsy backed up and went away.
My worry is that He is a good 5lb bigger than her, and she is already naturally timid.

How do I react during fights? Do I break them? Then what? I know I should not punish him. I also know I should not go to pet her as it can make him jealous and hate her even more..... I should not be petting him either, as I will be rewarding him for a very bad behavior....
What am I supposed to do to reassure Hope after a fight that she is OK and safe, without increasing Bugsy's jealousy? :dk:
 
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I have a few of the same problems you are having with your Hope. Perla..... :princess: She still after two years runs from me if I walk towards her, or stand up and move in her direction. That is just something we have to accept with these feral babies. Try not to worry about that at all. I am glad that Hope comes to you when you are sitting or lying down. The fact that she has reverted back to hiding - like when you first got her - is due to the lifestyle change in the home. You are traveling much more now. Although, you have always traveled, right? Just not as much as now. Also, the fact that the sitter situation has changed has not helped her feel very comfortable. Cats are so very intelligent - they love routine, schedule, same thing every day same time. Unfortunately, life is not like that for us humans and we do have to live our lives and make dinero to support these babies. Hope will be alright - don't worry about that one bit. She will adjust to this new routine and once you get a regular sitter - the same one each time, she will calm. I have a feeling that the "you know what" sitter really messed things up for your cats and for you. Not only for Hope, but for Bugsy too. I really think they are a bit worried about NOW WHAT - when momma leaves... :nervous: They have not had good experiences lately with the "sitter" (:wife: :stomp:) That is about to change for the better so at least that problem is solved. :nod:

As far as Bugsy picking on Hope, I think that Bugsy is sensing Hope's change just as you have noticed. Makes Bugsy feel uneasy so when Hope moves from the cat tree or from under the bed - he is ready for action. This is what I am dealing with Wendall and Perla. BUt what I have recently realized is that I was WRONG in my thinking. Perla is not freaked out by Wendall!!!! She has no time or desire for his attempts at contact with her. She is above him in ranking in the house and it bothers him to no end that she ignores him!!!!!!!!!! :idea: I can't believe I finally realized this. Her screams and hisses always prompted me to rush in and rescue her - chase Wendall off. Now that I figured this out and allow Perla to manage Wendall the way she sees fit - things are going much better. I am not saying that is what is going on with Bugsy and Hope - but I think we get more concerned about these interactions than they do. I think with the new change in travel - Hope has become a bit confused - in turn this has also confused Bugsy. Bugsy wants to bring Hope our of her "shell" and this is his way of "trying" to do that. To you it may look like bullying - but to them it is "cat therapy" Just as kids have it out time to time - so do our cats in times of upheaval and confusion due to our lives changing. If you are home and this happens - I would try to make a sudden, sharp noise to distract and redirect the upcoming exchange. I use a bean bag for this :lol2: But you could use anything that will change the mood. Toss it into a wall. That's it. Just something to startle and redirect Bugsy's frame of thinking - GET HOPE!!!! I honestly do not think that this will become an big issue between them, though. But at least you can stop the interaction with noise. Soon Bugsy will also relate that noise with going after Hope and will second guess his decision to do so. I found this to be true with Wendall. It really works.

For Hope's hiding. Let her be!!! It is alright that she is feeling the need to do so. If she feels she needs to hide right now, that is ok. :alright: Perla does this too. Hides under the bed. I just look under the bed and tell her I love her :heart3: I just accept that fact that this is what she needs right now - that is where she feels safe. Nothing wrong with that. Hope is a happy kitty - believe me. She is doing what makes her feel good and safe. You don't want to force the issue by trying too hard to get her to come out of hiding. Just make MORE hiding spots for her!!!! I have lots of tunnels, cubby cubes, tents, etc. But Perla still prefers under the bed. I would not take that away from her. There are days she is more outgoing than others and I just love those days. To you, it may seem that Hope is hiding... :D but to Hope - it is just where she feels safe and happy. :bigwink: Hey - she is a good eater and comes out for her meals, right???!!! Well - then all is GREAT in Hopes world. ..... SO go and have a wonderful trip. I am sorry I have rambled on and on here tonight. Larry is asking me "what the heck are you typing out" :lol2:
 
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carolina

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Wow Lauren, thank you SOOOOO much for spending the time writing this post :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
I need to put some major thought into this :nod:
Don't have the time now, but I will do it tomorrow in the plane.....
I am quite concerned, for this trip in particular, as this is not Kelly..... it is a new sitter..... Goodness, one I trust 100%, no doubt about it - but still, a somewhat new person in the house.
She has been here many many times over the years, but not in this capacity, we will see :cross: it will be ok :cross:

Bugsy IS bullying her. He did it again tonight - they didn't fight, but he tapped her on the head, she laid down and started growling. He was sitting up, typical bullying position - looking at her eyes, while she was hissing back at him. Both with ears back. I did my warning sound, and slowly moved myself to stand as a wall right in between them until that Bugsy went away.
It happened twice tonight.
Now they are relaxed, but I am worried.....
Luckily, I have plenty of hiding spaces for her, and the shelves on the wall that Bugsy doesn't really get on it.
She has been out and about all day though, she doesn't really seem to be scared of him, only when she has to go passed him, she goes carefully, as he throws threatening look at her; otherwise she is fine.
What is funny is, Lucky will lift a paw, and Bugsy is on the floor, four paws up, like he has no power at all - she doesn't need to hiss, doesn't need to scream, nothing - a mere lift of a paw - and he is completely submissive.
In fact, she is doing that right now :clap::clap::clap: Oh, the World turns! :lol3::lol3::lol3: She just slapped him silly - She is 6lbs lighter, Standing on the edge of the couch, looking down on him, who is laying on the couch looking completely powerless and pathetic :rolleyes:
I don't get why he has SUCH power with Hope. I wish she was more like Lucky :bigthumb:

I will take care of the rest of my packing now, while they take care of their packing order :lol3:
Thank you SO much :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
 
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carolina

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Refreshed all the feliways, and put a calming collar on both Hope and Bugsy. From today on, they are on the hands of the new sitter. She has Kelly's contact in case she needs anything, and since we both use the same vet, she knows where to take them in case of emergencies.
Hopefully Hope will be ok.... She is the one I get the most concerned on these circumstances, because of her personality :(
 
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feralvr

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Of course you worry most about Hope due to her personality. That is exactly how I feel about Perla :lol3: I worry most about her too because she is just so peaceful and sweet and get so stressed too. I really think that Bugsy has also noticed this change in Hope, as you have, and that is what has prompted these pursuits on his behalf :(. The problem is the more he gets away with it, the more he will be interested in doing so. :sigh: I will send vibes to Lucky so that she can have a "girl power" meeting with Hope :lovegrin: :nod: :lovegrin2: Hope needs to get some tips from Lucky on how to handle that "little goat" :lol3: I wish I had more to suggest for you little angel, Hope. Perla and Hope sound so much alike. :vibes::vibes: :whitecat: :whitecat: :rub:

:vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes: that all will be well with Bugsy and Hope during your vacation. :nod: Not to worry - they are in good hands this time around too. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: ;)
 
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carolina

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oh, another thought.... I wouldn't have a problem with the bullying, if it stopped at hissing, screaming, and tapping.... But Bugsy gets violent; he pins her down, and he goes for bites on her neck :-(
my fear is that he is SO much bigger than her, he can hurt her one of these days....
don't take me wrong, bugsy is the farthest from violent.... I think it is more being clumsy than anything...but still.... The fact is, he is huge, and he has fangs.
when Lucky slaps/fights with him, she punches him, almost like fighting a boxing match. But I am 100% sure she will not hurt him, are vice versa. There is no biting, no screaming, no hissing...... Just a long exchange of punches :lol3:
I made a bag of beans, and I am ready to shrift when I get home :nod: hopefully things will be a bit better......
it is pretty noticeable, now that you pointed out, that her hiding subsides the longer I stay home. These 3 back to back trips took a toll on her. Some I got back Friday night, and left Monday early am, which left me with no time with her......
you also made me think about Kelly`s situation. She wanted to do every their trip, which meant every trip a new sitter, what happened in this last month..... I think it was not a good thing for hope. Since Kelly can only do 2 trips for month, I will tell her to do 2 back to back trips, so we establish some sort of routine. Then the other sitter has the last one, and I have the fourth week.
I will take care of the tunnels as soon as I get home too.
well,wish me good luck, kinda freaking out here. :vibes::vibes::vibes:
 

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with four cats,different ages,we have used squirt bottles.Trouble (17+lbs 36"long black cat) would lay on Hailey(10lbs lap fur ball) pinning her down.a squirt would send him running with a job licking his wet fur.not a shot in the face,if you can help it,better a body shot to the trouble maker.no pun to my cats name.in a matter of few squirts,they learn quickly to stop the bad behavior.use only water and change to keep water going stale or growing bacteria.
 
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carolina

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with four cats,different ages,we have used squirt bottles.Trouble (17+lbs 36"long black cat) would lay on Hailey(10lbs lap fur ball) pinning her down.a squirt would send him running with a job licking his wet fur.not a shot in the face,if you can help it,better a body shot to the trouble maker.no pun to my cats name.in a matter of few squirts,they learn quickly to stop the bad behavior.use only water and change to keep water going stale or growing bacteria.
thank you for the advice.... But I don't believe in anything that can be viewed as punishment, and I view a squirt bottle as so.... I don't want Bugsy to relate it to me squirting him.... :( I like the idea of the bean bag, as it is noise, he doesn't need to see me throwing, and certainly not against him :nod:
 
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feralvr

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I don't use squirt bottles either. They are bulky and obvious when you reach for it, and most times the cat's figure out real quick that you are initiating the squirt, which is not good. They learn to fear you a bit. I prefer a loud noise distraction as opposed to a distraction that "touches" their body like a squirt of water. To break up a serious cat fight, and I mean aggressive fight, a bucket of water poured on the cat's will do it, not a squirt. That might infuriate them further. Anyway, for household scuffs, the bean bag when tossed into a wall near where the cat's are having the confrontation, will make the cat direct his attention to where the noise came from, which is not near you. It works very very well and the cat does not think you were involved. I also can tell ahead of time is Wendall is on a pursuit towards Perla and that is when I will toss, just before he chases her. Even though this startled the other cat's and Perla at the same time, it still is very effective in retraining Wendall to back off of trying to pursue teasing her. Perla seems to appreciate the fact that this breaks his attention off of her. :D

Great idea on having Kelly come two weeks in a row, then Ilene, then momma is home!! The cat's will get used to this routine, then things will fall into place, you will see :nod: Happy Kitties :clap::clap::clap::clap: No freaking out :lol3: Enjoy your vacation :hugs: :lovegrin: Your babies are just fine :rub: :vibes::vibes:
 
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carolina

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I am in Brazil right now, but I have great news about Hope and the new sitter.... I receive pictures of each feeding, 3 times a day.... She is doing great, not hiding, laying around the house, and being very friendly. I am a very proud momma! :clap:
 
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carolina

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Quick update on this thread......
Before I went to Brazil I put Calming Collars on both Bugsy and Hope, refreshed the Feliway on the walls, and prayed for the best :lol3:
I also taught the sitter the trick with the bean bag -

All three combined seem to be working very well :clap::clap::clap::clap:
Bugsy still launches at Hope from time to time, but not as much, and she definitely holds her own. She is no longer hiding :bigthumb:

Of course she still loves to be under the bed - what cat doesn't and is still very easily startled..... BUT - I got pictures ALL the time (every day, 3 times a day :D) from the sitter of her out and about, and this is the case when I am home too....
I am already out of town again, and the reports from Kelly are similar - she is even sleeping on the bed with her :rub:

I made another change - I was having a sitter come each week, so I had a new persone every week at the house..... So now I don't do that anymore. I have a sitter do two trips, then another sitter do the next two. This way it is not as much changes for the kitties.

Anyways..... Hopefully things will continue to improve - I will keep the collars on, since my work schedule is not going to change anytime soon :sweat:
 

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So some real progress has been made! :clap::clap::clap: The bean bags are a good idea. The behaviorist I took Jamie to years ago when he was giving ZsaZsa such a hard time recommended dropping a keychain, but a bean bag would certainly do a lot less damage (we have parquet in the living room and upstairs hall). Stuffed toys didn't make a loud enough noise when I tried them.

I haven't seen calming collars here, but it might just be that I'm using the wrong term for a search.
 

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Wow, Carolina, I'm just checking in on this thread - and GREAT work! Lauren, I LOVE the detailed insights! :hugs:

SO GLAD things are going so well, Carolina! :woohoo: :hyper: :D :rub: :clap: :bigthumb:
 
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