Breaking News From Hare Today

[sophie1]

I wrote to Tracy asking about whether she would ever consider selling mixes with the correct 80/10/10 ratio. It turns out that she's been planning this for years, and is willing to step up her timeline if there's enough interest. Some excerpts from her email below.

Please email her if you are interested, or at least post here and provide comments. It's a great idea both for reasons of convenience and for people just getting started who want something they don't have to fiddle with. You'd buy the mixes plus Alnutrin and fish oil, then simply put a container in the fridge to defrost, then mix in the Alnutrin & fish oil at serving time.
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I am planning on doing a mix with a few poultry products and rabbit with Alnutrin added at 80/10/10 ratio in the future but I need to purchase a industrial mixer which costs $45,000. Nothing is cheap when it comes to processing equipment so I have to save up till we can afford this. I have been saving for 2 years already to get this piece of equipment. Maybe by July or August.
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I also was thinking of portioning these into deli type containers instead of bags. My reason is 2 fold. Number one when my employees are pulling and packing orders a different container would be easier to identify so less order mistakes. Also most people wanting this option would be feeding only a couple cats and it would be easier to scoop right out of container and would be OK in fridge for 3 days.

What are your thoughts on the container. I always appreciate feed back.

Probably products would be chicken, turkey, rabbit and duck. Maybe one red meat such as beef or pork
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So yes you can post it and if people are really interested then tell them to email me at info@hare-today. If I get enough emails that it warrants taking out a loan then I will.
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[orange&white]

I was in a meat-buying coop from 2008 - 2012 with over 100 other people. They used to place regular Hare Today orders, so I would expect more than a few would be interested in a balanced mix. Surprised Tracy didn't prioritize that at some point over the last decade.

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I think a 16oz or 20oz container "tub" would be great for single-cat households. With two cats, I freeze 20 oz of food (by weight) in the 24 oz (by volume) rectangular tub containers. Square or rectangular stackable tubs take less freezer space than round tubs.

 

[goingpostal]

It would be nice, I usually have to order from there to get protein sources I can't otherwise and cost wise the grinds are often the best way to go, they are also handy for vacations/busy time/sick ferrets although I prefer whole or chunks. I do like the deli container also as the tubes I have to throw in a bigger Tupperware when I use them.

 

[dorimon]

I would love to see 80/10/10 poultry grinds from HT! My wishlist would include chicken, turkey, duck, goose, and pheasant. Rabbit is already available in a whole-carcass grind that is 80/10/10, so I probably wouldn't purchase a new rabbit mix.

As for the containers, I don't mind the bags that are currently used since I mix and portion the food out into glass jars anyway. I imagine plastic deli containers would increase Tracy's costs and, as a result, our prices.

Also, I don't suggest using Alnutrin (or any other supplement pre-mix, for that matter) with the rabbit grinds. They already include the thyroid gland, and you'd be over-supplementing iodine.

 

[maureen brad]

I think business wise this is a great idea. If HT were my business I would get that loan. I am not sure I would order the mixes, it depends on the pricing.
I agree with Dorimon about the Rabbit, it should not be mixed with Alnutrin

 

[mizzely]

I have been debating doing raw with my cats and Hare Today has an awesome selection but it's daunting to try and start sometimes! I think this would be great for beginners and veterans alike! We have chicken allergies here but as long as other options exist, it wouldn't be an issue.

Packaging i could go either way

 

[dorimon]

I have been debating doing raw with my cats and Hare Today has an awesome selection but it's daunting to try and start sometimes! I think this would be great for beginners and veterans alike!

I agree that it would make it easier for beginners to start feeding raw with grinds that already have the appropriate meat/bone/organ ratio of 80/10/10, since you have to start with small batches at first and you can't just buy fractions of pounds of meat.

HT is awesome though, mizzely . I'm still pretty new to raw feeding, but the cats are loving everything from HT (we got rabbit, quail, cavy, mouse, chicken, turkey, and duck). And Tracy always responds to my e-mails in a very timely manner.

 

[Ardina]

I just ordered some of the whole rabbit carcass grind from HT (my first attempt at homemade raw!). If I don't add the Alnutrin because the rabbit grind already has iodine from thyroid gland, is there anything else I would need to add to make it a complete diet? Like vitamins or trace elements like magnesium?

 

[orange&white]

I just ordered some of the whole rabbit carcass grind from HT (my first attempt at homemade raw!). If I don't add the Alnutrin because the rabbit grind already has iodine from thyroid gland, is there anything else I would need to add to make it a complete diet? Like vitamins or trace elements like magnesium?

You'll definitely want to add some taurine to rabbit. If you are going to feed the rabbit in a rotation with other foods, I wouldn't necessarily worry about other supplements. If you're going to feed nothing but rabbit for several weeks, then I'd add a few more.

I add Taurine, B-complex, Vitamin E, Lite Salt, and egg yolks to all my mixes (as recommended at both catinfo.org and feline-nutrition.org). (Lite salt provides iodine, so you wouldn't need that with rabbit because of the thyroid gland included in the mix.)

 

[dorimon]

I just ordered some of the whole rabbit carcass grind from HT (my first attempt at homemade raw!). If I don't add the Alnutrin because the rabbit grind already has iodine from thyroid gland, is there anything else I would need to add to make it a complete diet? Like vitamins or trace elements like magnesium?

You need to follow a recipe! Here are some:
Making Cat Food
Recipe: Feline Nutrition's Easy Raw Cat Food - Feline Nutrition
Recipes
Balanced Raw Food Recipe with Nutritional Analysis
Original Raw Cat Food Recipe


If you only feed the rabbit occasionally (<10% of total diet, as a "treat" essentially), then I wouldn't worry about supplementing.

Rabbit is low in taurine, so you definitely need to supplement if fed as meals! Also, don't feed rabbit exclusively... you should have a rotation of at least 3 different proteins.

 

[Ardina]

Thank you both for the helpful information! I've ordered small amounts of a bunch of different proteins (ground bone + organ included) to figure out which 3-4 my cat will eat.

Since none of the other proteins I ordered will have thyroid included, I was planning to use the recommended amount of Alnutrin for meat and bone, add fish oil, and however much boneless meat/heart and organ to get to a 80/10/10 ratio. Does that sound okay? As far as I understand, the Alnutrin should have the taurine, egg yolk, vitamins, etc to make it balanced.

For the rabbit, I think I'll keep things simple for now and feed less than 10% with some extra heart to make up for the lower taurine. Eventually, once I'm sure that my cat will eat the homemade and I know which proteins, I'll move off the Alnutrin and add the individual supplements myself, so I'll be able to balance the rabbit without adding too much iodine.

 

[dorimon]

Thank you both for the helpful information! I've ordered small amounts of a bunch of different proteins (ground bone + organ included) to figure out which 3-4 my cat will eat.

Since none of the other proteins I ordered will have thyroid included, I was planning to use the recommended amount of Alnutrin for meat and bone, add fish oil, and however much boneless meat/heart and organ to get to a 80/10/10 ratio. Does that sound okay? As far as I understand, the Alnutrin should have the taurine, egg yolk, vitamins, etc to make it balanced.

For the rabbit, I think I'll keep things simple for now and feed less than 10% with some extra heart to make up for the lower taurine. Eventually, once I'm sure that my cat will eat the homemade and I know which proteins, I'll move off the Alnutrin and add the individual supplements myself, so I'll be able to balance the rabbit without adding too much iodine.

Just FYI, all of the whole-carcass grinds from HT include thyroid. Alnutrin does contain all of the necessary supplements if you just add fish oil.

I've ordered the whole-carcass grinds and self-supplement, and also some boneless meats to use with Alnutrin w/ Eggshell Calcium.

If you are feeding a rotation of several different proteins, then you don't need to worry about rabbit being low in taurine. Mouse, for example, is very high in protein. The idea is that each protein in your rotation has its own nutritional profile and over time, it will balance out.

 

[orange&white]

I was planning to use the recommended amount of Alnutrin for meat and bone, add fish oil, and however much boneless meat/heart and organ to get to a 80/10/10 ratio. Does that sound okay?

That's the way the "pro's" do it!

...and I forgot to mention the fish oil. Good for you! (I feed a small amount of tinned oily fish per week instead of the oil.)

 

[Ardina]

Just FYI, all of the whole-carcass grinds from HT include thyroid. Alnutrin does contain all of the necessary supplements if you just add fish oil.

So for example, the ground chicken/bones/organ and the ground turkey/bones/organ would include thyroid, but the analogous beef or mutton wouldn't? How bad would it be if I did add the Alnutrin to those including thyroid? I could keep the rabbit to 10%, but it would be hard to do for rabbit, chicken, and turkey.

Kind of makes the Alnutrin much more limited-use if I can't put it in whole carcass grinds...

 

[dorimon]

So for example, the ground chicken/bones/organ and the ground turkey/bones/organ would include thyroid, but the analogous beef or mutton wouldn't? How bad would it be if I did add the Alnutrin to those including thyroid? I could keep the rabbit to 10%, but it would be hard to do for rabbit, chicken, and turkey.

Kind of makes the Alnutrin much more limited-use if I can't put it in whole carcass grinds...

The chicken and turkey aren't whole-carcass grinds. HT only sells whole-carcass ground rabbit, cavy, mouse, and quail, where the ENTIRE animal is ground, fur/feathers and all.

 

[Ardina]

The chicken and turkey aren't whole-carcass grinds. HT only sells whole-carcass ground rabbit, cavy, mouse, and quail, where the ENTIRE animal is ground, fur/feathers and all.

Ohhh, that makes sense! Thank you!

 

[Willowy]

If we're taking votes on what kind of packaging, I kind of prefer the chubs, because they can be half-thawed and sliced to portion them out, instead of having to wait until it's totally thawed to scoop it out like a tub. But I have a lot of cats; a smaller tub would probably be better for people who only have one or two cats. Maybe she should offer it both ways.

 

[sophie1]

Well, the idea is to offer a product of convenience. If you prefer chubs, she already sells those. For example, I could buy the 1 lb chubs and Alnutrin, cut the chubs into half & quarter pieces, then mix up a batch in a pyrex container and then just feed my cats out of that container for a few days. (recipe would be 1/2 chub each of chicken/turkey grind and boneless meat, and 1/4 chub of chicken organ mix, result is 1.25 lb of food which would last about 2 days.) Or, mix up only the chicken/turkey grind with the organ mix, and feed boneless meat separately.

Since the most time consuming part of the foodmaking operation is packing food into jars, arranging the jars into a limited freezer space, and cleaning up, I've been tempted to do this. But I do like making my own supplement mix, which is hard to do for < 3 lb batches. I also want to feed boneless meat as chunks.

 

[dorimon]

Well, the idea is to offer a product of convenience. If you prefer chubs, she already sells those. For example, I could buy the 1 lb chubs and Alnutrin, cut the chubs into half & quarter pieces, then mix up a batch in a pyrex container and then just feed my cats out of that container for a few days. (recipe would be 1/2 chub each of chicken/turkey grind and boneless meat, and 1/4 chub of chicken organ mix, result is 1.25 lb of food which would last about 2 days.) Or, mix up only the chicken/turkey grind with the organ mix, and feed boneless meat separately.

Since the most time consuming part of the foodmaking operation is packing food into jars, arranging the jars into a limited freezer space, and cleaning up, I've been tempted to do this. But I do like making my own supplement mix, which is hard to do for < 3 lb batches. I also want to feed boneless meat as chunks.

I think that by making the ratio of meat/bone/organ the ideal 80/10/10, it would already be much more convenient. I personally prefer the chubs, but understand that I might not be the target consumer for these new products.