maybe he is getting to much?
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Bottomless Pit
- Thread starter harleydiva
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- #42
If you mean taurine....it is water soluble....they just pee out what they don't use. Kind of like you taking too much vitamin C
You are feeding the Alnutrin with calcium and not the other kind, right?
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- #45
No....I feed meat/bone/organ ground mixes......so I use the Alnutrin for meat/bone.
Are you making your own mixes or buying pre-made? I saw above you feed Stella and Chewy's sometimes.
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- #47
I started the crew off with Nature's Variety for a couple of weeks, then switched to Bravo Balance. A little over 2 months ago, I began buying ground meat/bone/organ mixes from My Pet Carnivore. I'm using chicken, turkey, rabbit, beef/tripe, duck for the most part. When I switched to MPC, I began using Alnutrin for meat/bone. Since the mixes are stated to contain 10% bone and 10% organ, I add a chicken heart, gizzard, or a couple chicken thigh strips most days. I haven't seen any sign of constipation or chalky stools. Stella and Chewy's is primarily for if I forget to thaw something, but I do occasionally feed them a lunch meal of it, or throw a little on top of a meal they don't like as much. Initially they wouldn't eat S&C, but now they have decided they like it. They like green tripe, so I often mix a little in with their chicken or turkey, as they don't like it as much. Other than that, the only other thing I am doing is salmon oil once a day, and a weekly water packed, sodium free sardine on top of the regular meal in lieu of the salmon oil.
I feel your pain.
And I think you may relate to this video.
I was eating spaghetti tonight and Magnus kept trying to see what I was eating. THINKING he wouldn't possibly want to eat a noodle (silly me!) I showed him a noodle, which he promptly gobbled.
This is his second noodle (which I did videotape because I thought it was funny). Don't worry, I don't plan on feeding him noodles now!
And I think you may relate to this video.
I was eating spaghetti tonight and Magnus kept trying to see what I was eating. THINKING he wouldn't possibly want to eat a noodle (silly me!) I showed him a noodle, which he promptly gobbled.
This is his second noodle (which I did videotape because I thought it was funny). Don't worry, I don't plan on feeding him noodles now!
I think technically since the mixes are whole animals, you don't actually need any additional vitamins or anything. So it may be true that he is getting too much of something. Someone else like LDG or AC would have to confirm this though.
Dr. Pierson's rabbit recipe calls for B complex, vitamin E, taurine, fish oil, and water to be added. I'm not a vet nor a nutritionist so I don't know what you may need to tweak in your recipe. However, mine will go after different things. Gadget will eat anything not nailed down, I found him in my cornbread last night. Julie took off with fresh turnip greens the other day, and Mason is a devout carnivore. Crazy cats.
Rabbit is different from other meats though. For some reason, it doesn't quite have all the nutrients a cat needs all on its own.
(Ex, if you fed 80% chicken, 10% chicken bone, 5% chicken liver and 5% chicken kidney, your meal would be complete. However, if you did the same with rabbit, it would not be.)
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- #52
My guys all love rabbit....it's the one meat I can almost always count on them eating. I'm actually moving toward feeding it about every 3rd meal, just because they eat it so well. I found a new source that is much cheaper than where I have been getting it.
Thanks! She has the same ingredients listed for chicken except lite salt is added, but I guess the ingredients are needed to balance out the fact that even a whole chicken isn't a whole chicken to a cat? I mean that the bird I get from the store is dressed...?
The reason her recipe needs to have additional ingredients to balance it out are:
A. it's ground
B. it does not include liver
If you feed non-ground 80/10/5/5 meals, you do not need to add anything to make them complete.
Why do you say rabbit doesn't quite have all the nutrients a cat needs all on its own? Of course it does. :dk: Many feral cats eat diets that are primarily rabbit.
Her recipe includes other ingredients - as do every single ground raw food recipe I've ever seen - to account for lack of rotation of proteins/protein-sources of organs, oxidation from grinding and potential length of storage, and to account for not feeding whole prey. Even balanced prey model raw includes at least eggs and sardines (or equivalent).
If you feed non-ground 80/10/5/5 meals you most certainly need to include a source of vitamin D (eggs and sardines or equivalent). Meat and organs contain no vitamin D, and cats (and dogs) do not synthesize vitamin D from sunlight.
Prey model is just that - a model. It is not whole prey, and it's also essential to include at least three, and preferably at least five, proteins in rotation. Ideally, the protein-sources of organs are also rotated, but most don't.
Dr. Pierson's recipe most certainly does include liver.
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Lite iodized salt. It's included because the USDA doesn't track iodine in foods, and we have no idea how much iodine is in anything we feed our cats. Sodium is also an essential nutrient, and blood is rich with both: any meat we buy is bled out.
I see nothing wrong with this at all - it sounds like an excellent diet. :dk: Is the question why he wants bread?
I have a cat two cats that will eat bread if we leave it on the counter.
Their willingness to eat carbs has nothing to do with their lacking something in their diet. :lol3: I love cake and ice cream - but neither not good for me, and I get plenty of carbs and calcium in my diet without them.
Oh - and more on the iodized salt in Dr. Pierson's recipe. Here is her comments as re: rabbit vs. poultry:
I've purchased whole (dressed) rabbits. I'm not sure they include the thyroid gland or not. It seems the neck is intact... And while it would have iodine - the hormones produced by the thyroid gland are regulated as a drug. I know that in glandular supplements, such as those sold by Nutricology (Immoplex), if buying a thyroid supplement, the hormones have been removed. So no clue on whether whole rabbits usually include the thyroid gland or not. :dk: Best to ask the supplier, if you're counting on it to provide needed iodine.
Rabbit meat doesn't contain enough taurine, remember?
I've always had the impression that you could feed exactly just 80/10/5/5 and that was complete. Some people recommend other supplements, sure, but they were only suggestions. I remember when I started at this forum/another cat forum that plenty of times it was recommended 80/10/5/5 only. It was only in the past year or less that sardines or eggs were more strongly recommended.
I read through Dr Pierson's recipes and didn't see liver anywhere.
