Boo is suddenly having issues with raw

[carolina]

Carolina, how weird that he was doing so well and then started having issues. I wonder what could possibly be causing this.

I have no idea. There is nothing on his diet I can possibly blame. His diet is very very pure. I tried to go back to NV, which is the diet he was for months to see what happened and he threw up that too :dk:
Seems that for some odd reason his body just didn't want raw meat all of the sudden.
For now I am just glad he isn't sick and I can feed him some good canned meat for a little while before I transition him back to raw again. Hopefully won't take too long :cross:

 

[auntie crazy]

CatNamedPanda, you're feeding a specific commercial product, so rather than think Boo doesn't want or can't "handle" raw meat, why not treat it as if there's a problem with that specific product? Fresh raw meat is very different than any commercial blend, and manufactured products even differ from each other (just the same as with canned foods).
 

Maybe try fresh raw with no supplements or processing, or try a different product. Or, perhaps even a different batch of the same product?

--------

Carolina, sometimes the company selling fresh meats changes the source of their meat or processes it differently. Mac's sudden onset of regurgitation is classic for a product that has been enhanced. That wouldn't really explain why he didn't keep the NV down afterward, but it might be part of the initial problem?

Hmmm, for that matter, NV could have changed something in their product, too. Maybe a quick call to them, or an ingredients list comparison between an old package and a new one? (If you don't have an old package, you can use what's listed here: Commercial Raw Products Compared).

AC

 

[carolina]

CatNamedPanda, you're feeding a specific commercial product, so rather than think Boo doesn't want or can't "handle" raw meat, why not treat it as if there's a problem with that specific product? Fresh raw meat is very different than any commercial blend, and manufactured products even differ from each other (just the same as with canned foods).

 
Maybe try fresh raw with no supplements or processing, or try a different product. Or, perhaps even a different batch of the same product?

--------

Carolina, sometimes the company selling fresh meats changes the source of their meat or processes it differently. Mac's sudden onset of regurgitation is classic for a product that has been enhanced. That wouldn't really explain why he didn't keep the NV down afterward, but it might be part of the initial problem?

Hmmm, for that matter, NV could have changed something in their product, too. Maybe a quick call to them, or an ingredients list comparison between an old package and a new one? (If you don't have an old package, you can use what's listed here: Commercial Raw Products Compared).

AC

AC, I buy my meat on a farmers' market, and it is not enhanced. It is from the same batch he was eating before.
I tested NV (One meal) to see what happened... And he did throw up again. This was an unopened package that I bought at the same time I bought the package he ate when he first came in and was eating it without an issue - so most likely from the same batch as well. It was just in my freezer- I wasn't going to use it anymore.

The other cats are fine..... it is only Mac.....

 

[ldg]

Yeah, a serious mystery!!!!!

Carolina, remember this happened with Lucky? I wonder now if it wasn't an issue with bone at all, but a similar thing to Mac with raw? Fine for a few weeks, then BAM! a problem? Because you feed her cooked chicken for a couple of weeks, didn't you? And then you reintroduced non-commercial with no bone, didn't you?

I wonder if all along the problem wasn't bone, but whatever this is, her system needed to "reset," and then the slow re-introduction worked. :dk: Did you use digestive enzymes then? And were you using them before, do you remember? Because if I recall correctly, none of us used them at first...

:dk:


CatNamedPanda... was he eating the Nature's Logic rabbit before without problem? Or did he start throwing up on that? Or am I remembering incorrectly? Was it NV rabbit? :dk:

But you may want to do what Carolina's doing... give him a couple of weeks to let his system settle, before trying very slowly again?

for Boo AND Mac!


FYI, someone with an IBD kitty was telling me just recently about her kitty reguritating raw immediately upon feeding. It was S&C dehydrated, which is pretty universally accepted by kitties. What's happening with Mac and Boo sounds so much like a classic IBD flare up.

 

[carolina]

Yeah, a serious mystery!!!!!

Carolina, remember this happened with Lucky? I wonder now if it wasn't an issue with bone at all, but a similar thing to Mac with raw? Fine for a few weeks, then BAM! a problem? Because you feed her cooked chicken for a couple of weeks, didn't you? And then you reintroduced non-commercial with no bone, didn't you?

I wonder if all along the problem wasn't bone, but whatever this is, her system needed to "reset," and then the slow re-introduction worked. :dk: Did you use digestive enzymes then? And were you using them before, do you remember? Because if I recall correctly, none of us used them at first...

:dk:


CatNamedPanda... was he eating the Nature's Logic rabbit before without problem? Or did he start throwing up on that? Or am I remembering incorrectly? Was it NV rabbit? :dk:

But you may want to do what Carolina's doing... give him a couple of weeks to let his system settle, before trying very slowly again?

for Boo AND Mac!


FYI, someone with an IBD kitty was telling me just recently about her kitty reguritating raw immediately upon feeding. It was S&C dehydrated, which is pretty universally accepted by kitties. What's happening with Mac and Boo sounds so much like a classic IBD flare up.

You bring some very good points Laurie, as always :nod:

I have been thinking about Lucky..... Maybe it wasn't bones afterall.... Maybe she was rejecting raw period.
The reasons why I blamed the bones were two:
1- because the issue coincided with adding food with bones into her diet - Hare Today Rabbit, from previously being on Rad Cat. Although..... Rad Cat has bone meal :dk:
2- In the x-ray her digestive system was FULL of undigested bones - I mean FULL! So, clearly, she wasn't digesting it.

Yes, she was for 2 weeks on cooked chicken breast without an issue - she had to go back to kibbles as she didn't eat any canned on the third week and she had to eat balanced meals and she wasn't ready for raw yet.
From there I trnsitioned her back to raw again - which she was fine - this time I think I transitioned her to homemade.... I don't remember. Her vet ordered me no bones, so that's what I did.

I don't remember if she was on enzymes or not.... I started the enzymes to help Bugsy's acid regurgitation, and it helped a lot. I am now giving it to Mac already.

Catnamedpanda, I agree - from my experience, I would go a couple of weeks on canned then introduce a single protein, as pure as you can, back into his diet. I would not do lamb... I would try a lighter one first.

 

[carolina]

I forgot - I am quite certain Lucky has some sort of digestive issue - remember all her vomiting on kibbles? Her hairball blockage and her transition issues? Maybe this is some sort of IBD like you say Laurie...... :nod:

 

[melrai]

At first it was just the beef that made Boo sick. He started not wanting any raw and would refuse to eat any flavor. So I started giving him canned to make sure he actually ate. I gave him strait canned for about a week and decided to try to get him back on raw again. I mixed a small amount of raw chicken with his canned and a little latter that night he threw up. I have given him a few more days on wet. Tried again just a little bit of raw chicken mixed with the canned, and again the same thing, he threw it all up. He is hungry after he vomits and has an appetite as long as it is wet I put down, not raw. I don't understand why he was eating it fine for so long, and now it makes him sick.

How is Boo doing now? I'm having a very similar case with my female ca as well. She has gone completely off her ground Chicken Organ mix. This morning I cut up some chicken neck and I'm giving her that. She seems to be eating it happily...now.

Although, she is not getting sick. I hope you have reached an answer with Boo, I know how frustrating this can be. 

 goodluck!

 

[catnamedpanda]

Laurie the vomitting started on the natures logic beef and continued on anything else. I had given him primal quail too after that and he puked with that too. He refused any raw after that and went on just wet. We did that a week before I tried the natures logic chicken that I had mixed with the wet to get him to eat it. He threw up that meal. I waited a few days and tried and tried again and he threw up again. Wait the 5 days and he ate the little bite of chicken and kept that down. He did have a few days of diarrhea in the beginning, but I figured it was from jumping back to wet, and it did clear back up.

So after I wait about a week more of just canned, should I just introduce plain chicken, or pick up some chicken or something from another brand and just take it very slowly.

 

[vball91]

I would try plain chicken. If Boo is having a problem with one or more of the ingredients, it's hard to know which one with the commercial brands that have so many ingredients. If he can keep plain chicken down, you know it isn't a problem with raw or chicken itself. You could then try plain other meats to see if it's a problem with any other protein sources.

 

[ldg]

I would try plain chicken. If Boo is having a problem with one or more of the ingredients, it's hard to know which one with the commercial brands that have so many ingredients. If he can keep plain chicken down, you know it isn't a problem with raw or chicken itself. You could then try plain other meats to see if it's a problem with any other protein sources.

That's what I think too. :nod: Give him another little while on the canned since his system has settled down - let it "take" and fully settle. :nod: And then I'd try the plain raw chicken. That way there's no guesswork on what the problem is. Do you still have any Call of the Wild supplement there? I definitely wouldn''t use it at first, but if he's able to keep a little raw chicken down, as you slowly increase it, you can try using the CoTW when it gets to be over 15% of his diet.

 

[catnamedpanda]

Unfortunately I don't have anymore call of the wild. I might order some more though.

 

[ldg]

Well, when you reintroduce raw, see if he'll keep down the plain chicken first. CoTW isn't cheap!

 

[ldg]

You know, I was thinking about this "sudden intolerance" to raw thing last night. Really - such a mystery! But what popped to my mind is my Sheldon.

He can't eat more than a bite of raw liver (which he used to like and try to eat) without throwing it up. And that has to be a small bite. (Though it's made him throw up so much that now he's loathe to eat it). Yet I can feed him RAW freeze dried liver, and he keeps that down just fine. I'm wondering if that's in some way related to this problem? :dk:

Though we're not sure Boo is actually intolerant to raw just now, it might be an ingredient in the commercial food... Carolina's Mac, and before that Lucky, both seem to have an issue with raw develop, that then goes away after a system "reset" and a slow re-introduction.... (though I haven't been able to do that with Sheldon and liver. :scratch: ).

 

[shadyferret]

I had a similar issue with a cat, named Blue. He was eating Rad Cat Chicken, commercial raw, and he was doing well until one day he started throwing up. A lot, and it kept up whenever he'd get into another cat's raw chicken. I switched him back to Addiction Venison because I knew he handled that fine. Recently I fed him BBQ chicken while I was waiting for the Hare-Today.com meat to defrost (yes, I know, not the best for a cat but I ran out of canned after the pet stores closed). He didn't throw up and neither did the third cat who had once had a really bad reaction to canned chicken.

I'm still determining what it is, but I'm down to root additives for him. Root additives are pretty common because it's thought that it helps bowel movements. The most likely answer is (a) specific root(s) since Addiction Venison is not root free. My third cat appears allergic to kelp. Allergies have a trigger-threshold. People and animals can be exposed to an allergy (or intolerant food) for some time at low levels each time without triggering a reaction, but one day those low levels build up enough and the reaction is finally triggered. Hence why Blue didn't start throwing up until the 2nd or 3rd week and every time subsequent.

So, like others have said, keep him on food you know he tolerates for a least a few weeks to give his system time to recover. I strongly recommend introducing non-commercial raw meat with the bare minimum requirements - taurine, omega 3/6, Vitamin E, and some say iodine if you don't add kelp. Eggs are always referenced too, although there is some articles out there cautioning people to be careful of eggs if you are determining if there's an allergy or food intolerance. If there isn't any bone meal or small palaple bones in the raw meat, then also add calcium supplements.

I understand the fear of the vomit. My carpet is so discolored from Blue, who seemed intolerant of virtually everything and vomited it. Good thing it's not my carpet and I already paid the non-refundable deposit   But there was no such problem with Blue being on a non-commercial raw version of the same meat. I haven't ordered raw chicken from Hare-Today yet because I'm finishing up food trials, but I don't see a reason why cooked chicken would vastly differ from additive-free raw chicken. Especially since the later has even less additives than the former.

 

[ldg]

Interesting, and thank you for sharing.

It's still a real mystery with Carolina's Mac though. He's on homemade prey model raw, with eggshell instead of bone, and minimum of supplements. :scratch:

 

[catnamedpanda]

When I do start re-introducing Boo to raw again, how long can I feed him plain chicken for?

 

[carolina]

Imho the best way to introduce it is to slowly mix it into the wet. A tiny piece per meal on the first day. Then two tiny pieces on the second, and so on provide he does well. You can balance the chicken and feed him that for a while, or unbalanced for a couple weeks.. Although I don't think you will need that long. After a weekyyou can slowly add your raw food back. Thats what I would do.

 

[catnamedpanda]

Ok that is what I will do. I was planning on slowly adding the plain chicken to his wet food.

When I start adding back in commercial raw into his food what protein would be best? I have access to NV- beef, rabbit, venison, duck, chicken, and lamb as well as Primal- beef and salmon, chicken and salmon, pheasant, quail, turkey, venison, and rabbit. I am going to avoid natures logic just in case it is something in that upsetting him.

 

[shadyferret]

I would wait until you know the chicken isn't causing his problems. Maybe 2 weeks? Then feed him chicken of either NV Instinct or Primal for several weeks and see if something happens. If something does happen, then its likely an additive and that's another issue. I don't know much about Primal so I couldn't give you an opinion.

 

[carolina]

I am starting to introduce Raw into Mac's diet again - so far so good.
Started a couple of days ago with a tiny amount - 1/2 tsp per meal. Yesterday I moved to 1tsp, and today 2 tsp. He is doing well, and no so far :cross:
I have been adding enzymes to all his meals since he went on canned food :nod: