Blood In Kitten Poop?

[Azalea]

Hi! So I fave a few question about these two kittens I'm fostering. It's past midnight where I live and I have to go to work tomorrow, so I'm trying to figure out if I should make arrangements to leave my keys with someone so a friend can take the kittens to the vet if need be.

I'm fostering two orphan kittens, about 6 or 7 weeks old, seem pretty healthy and playful. They arrived on Sunday 3 days ago. Just weighted them, the big one's 750 grams (26.4 oz), smaller one 650 grams (22.9). They lost their mom at 4 weeks, their mom's owners tried to feed them cow's milk then gave them to the rescue I volunteer for. They've been in quarantine at the rescue for 2 weeks, went to the vet on Friday, tested negative for FeLV and FIV, were dewormed etc. First two days they are eating fine and have small solid poops. Today, they haven't gained any weight (big one lost 3 grams, small one stayed the same) and have huge soft poops. One of them has blood on her poop (fresh looking blood, not inside the poop, just at the surface).
I feed them every 5 hours-ish, a big spoonful of wet food (I keep opened tins in the refrigerator) mixed with hot water (to bring it up to room temp), and sprinkle the whole thing with kibble. It's all baby cat stuff. That's what they were eating before they arrived. The rescue's been telling me to increase the proportion of wet food to 'wean' them on to just kibble. Plants, fruits, veg, cleaning products, etc are all out of reach. They may have stuck their noses into some spilled plant soil but I didn't see them eat any. They're using cat's best brand kitty litter, don't seem to be eating any of it.

(Also I fostered a mom and her 5 kittens two years ago, and adopted the mom. She seems pretty upset by the arrival of the new kittens, has been keeping to herself and since the moment of their arrival has been eating about half of what she normally eats, and has vomited twice - which she's never done before. She hisses at the kittens when they get too near so I'm keeping the kittens in the bathroom at night and letting them out under supervision. She doesn't have access to the kitten food, I hope it's "just" the stress and the heatwave where I live - it's 104f out, though only about 77f indoors. It's less urgent, she's still playing etc, but any insight would be helpful!)

 

[abyeb]

Here’s a recent thread about a similar situation that has some helpful replies that you can check out: Help! Newborn Kitten Pooping Blood

Basically, blood in the stool is concerning, and you should take the kittens to the vet in the morning.

http://kittencoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/NKC-Fast-Facts_Poop-Chart_5-2017.pdf

I would recommend taking your adult cat, as well, just to be sure that there isn’t anything serious going on.

 

[Sarthur2]

Your adult cat’s feelings are hurt and she is likely just stressed over the newcomers in her home.

The kittens need a vet. They will probably need an antibiotic and/or anti-parasite med(s) for intestinal issues. It usually resolves quickly.

The kittens are very small still and need to eat 4-6 times a day as much as they want for maximum growth. At times it will seem they are on a plateau with their weight when they get a growth spurt until their weight catches up. However, it does sound like intestinal issues may be hindering them at the moment.

Let us know what the vet says.

 

[Azalea]

Yes, I saw the other thread. But the blood was on the surface and brighter red so I thought it might be something different.
It's frustrating because I called the rescue first thing today, and sent them pictures of the poop, and they tell me they're not worried because it's probably just the heat and maybe irritation from the antiparasitic they were given Friday. Also because they are all still playing, rough housing, and exploring as usual. Any vet visits (and any leaving of the home actually) must be approved by the rescue...

Yes I feed them 5 times a day, enough that there are leftovers after meals, and leave those leftovers out between meals. Big sis didn't eat all night but she just ate a few spoonfuls right now. But she's lost 10 grams (I've told this to the rescue they said it was normal). Their poop is still soft and light brown, I haven't seen any new blood. Because I don't have a car and have to work today and have exams tomorrow, it'll be harder to get them to the vet without the rescues support. I'm still very worried thought! Should I still go? I'm calling the vet as soon as they open!

 

[Azalea]

So the vet also said that as long as they are acting normal, they don't have to come in, just to keep an eye on them. I'm still worried though, as I won't be home till late today...
They keep saying it's because of the heatwave, but it's always about 25.5 celcius (78 fahrenheit) indoors, and maybe a little less in the bathroom I keep them in, is that enough to have that kind of an effect on them?
Also the rescue said I should give them Smecta (Diosmectite), but is that really recommended without knowing the root of the problem?

 

[Azalea]

I'm attaching photos of the change from day two to day three.

Spoiler: Poop photos

Also the kittens, to make up for the poop photos (Black and white big sis is Coriander, little sis is Mint, their other siblings are Basil, Rosemary, and Chives)

 

[Sarthur2]

What is smecta?

I did not realize they had already had an anti-parasite medication. Soft, light brown poop of toothpaste consistency is normal for kittens.

It sounds like they are doing well overall. Give it time and continue to be observant.

They are very cute!

 

[Azalea]

The poop isn't worrying me so much as the blood and the abrupt change. Smecta is a commonly prescribed antidiarrhoeal in France.
Googling brings up "Diosmectite, an activated natural aluminosilicate clay consisting of a double aluminium and magnesium silicate, is an adsorbent widely used for the treatment of acute infectious diarrhoea in children." And "Like other adsorbents, diosmectite is not absorbed in the intestine. It can adsorb eight times its own weight of water, thereby diminishing free stool water. It also adsorbs toxins, bacteria, and rotavirus, preventing their adherence to intestinal membranes. Diosmectite strengthens the mucosal barrier, and, in the absence of mucus, prevents its disruption [20–22]. By consequence, on the contrary to some antidiarrhoeal agents acting on motility, diosmectite could decrease the time infectious agents remaining in the intestine. However the absorbing characteristics of diosmectite can disturb the absorption rates of other substances."
But I'd be fine with the poops if it wasn't for the weight loss and blood!
(Also the rescue are really pushing for a transition to only kibble asap even though they eat wet food better than kibble atm)

 

[Sarthur2]

I suggest you continue to feed the wet food as they like it and eat it well, and overall it is better for cats. Leave kibble available, but they are young for it.

I would only give the Smecta if the diarrhea and blood continue.

They should gain about 4 ounces per week each (114 grams).

 

[Azalea]

Stools are still soft, more, um, mushy guacamole than toothpaste, but I haven't spotted anymore blood so that's good. I cut down on the kibble mixed with the wet food, and was just reprimanded by the rescue. They've been sending messages like "they're big kittens now, you have to wean them off wet food" and "you've used FIVE cans (200g) of wet food since Sunday (shocked emoji)", "a 200g can should last you three days at least" and "the goal is to make them independent, they have to transition to dry food now".

The rescue provides the food. I wish they would outright say that they want them to switch to kibble for financial reasons (which I would understand), instead of acting as if it were a developmental milestone for kittens. And my previous fosters were still mostly nursing at that age! In fact they suckled until they left, at 3, 4 and 5 months, and were very healthy, emotionally and physically. Plus I've been unsuccessfully trying to transition my adult cat to wet food for two years now. The kittens eat much better with wet food, they need the nutrition, and the heatwave has only been getting worse so hydration is important too...

Anyways, sorry for the rant, but it's just very frustrating!

 

[Sarthur2]

Yes, it is frustrating because it most likely is a financial concern. I hope it doesn’t affect whether they continue to give you kittens to foster.

I know you are fostering and the rescue is to provide supplies, but can you afford to buy wet food for the kittens yourself? You could consider it a “donation” in addition to your labor on behalf of the kittens.

And many kittens will eat kitten chow that is mixed in with their wet food if it is softened for a few minutes first.

How many kittens are you fostering right now and what are their ages?

 

[Azalea]

Two kittens, 6 weeks-ish. I'm not sure I'll be fostering more with them, just because kittens stay until 12 weeks minimum (that's one thing I like about them), and by then I'll be finishing my degree and maybe moving

I do mix in kibble, but they eat a lot less of it if I put more than 1/3 kibble, and I don't want to leave it out in the heat.

I know about their finances, I've a friend who's is their adoption councilor. I'd been planning on buying wet food to supplement what they gave me, just hadn't been expecting them to say that they weren't going to give more than 6 cans. They just advised me to leave dry kibble out (which I already do) and space out meals so that they'll be hungry and forced to eat the kibble. I just REALLY wish they'd just out and say "we're sorry but finances are tight and we can't afford it" instead of acting like I'm a bad foster mom and that "weaning" from wet food to dry food was a developmental stage equivalent to weaning off KMR...

 

[Sarthur2]

I do understand, but they are not going to state the obvious, so do what you know is best for the kittens.

In the meantime, take the six cans, buy more on your own, and just let the rescue know the kittens are simply eating both wet and dry and thriving!

 

[fionasmom]

Rescues can be more difficult than one might imagine and many have their own rules, which are often for financial reasons as you have all said. I agree that you should feed the kittens on your own if you can afford to and tell the rescue that they are eating as per the plan. As for the blood, I have had instances of bright red blood in stool, not the tarry black type that usually does mean that something is wrong. In all cases I did consult the vet but nothing was seriously wrong. One female had mild rectal bleeding until she was spayed and the vet said that she had seen this happen to others...she is fine and alive 11 years later. I hope that your kitties are just having a mild upset of some kind.

 

[Azalea]

I hope so too! They're gaining weight, but not as much as I'd hope, so I really hope this will pass. And I guess it's normal, but my previous fosters just felt more sturdy somehow. Though of course they had their mom.

I was wondering if occasionally giving them adult cat wet food would be ok? Maybe next week or the week after? They're currently eating RC Mother & Babycat mousse. With my previous fosters I got all the fancy grain free no additives kitten food, Cosma, Feringa, Schesir, Almo Nature... rotating flavors so they wouldn't grow up picky... but finances are tighter this time. Would an occasional tin of, say, Fancy Feast chicken mousse be a bad thing? Just to mix in with better stuff or to mix with the dry food?

 

[Sarthur2]

I use Fancy Feast exclusively. It is an excellent choice for your kittens. The “classic” lists meat as the first ingredient. No need to pay more than this for wet food.

 

[Azalea]

The title doesn't fit very well anymore! They've been gaining more weight since I stopped trying to feed the dry food - I'm pretty happy about it!

My question now is do I separate kittens who are play fighting a little too roughly? The smaller kitten, Mint, can be quite rough with her big sister - to the point where Coriander starts pinning her ears all the way flat, and sometimes meows/yelps like it hurts. Mint doesn't stop at that point. I haven't seen Mint flatten her ears at all yet, and she's usually on top. I know it's just play, they both do the same amount of starting play fights. At what age are they supposed to learn bite inhibition? Should I separate them when it gets too rough? Distract them with a feather toy to let out steam?
I'm concerned my adult cat might play a role. Their three siblings are in a home with an old doting adult male cat who plays at being mom, they sleep piled up together and he cleans them. They have a stay at home human. My cat has sniffed at them and licked them a couple times, but she swats at them if they are in her way, and I work. They sometimes act scared of her (walking sideways towards her, tail fluffed and up, ears back). I wish there was a third kitten so they wouldn't be forced together so much and could take breaks. Maybe it's silly, but I don't want them to get less love than their siblings do.

 

[danteshuman]

I just read this but I thought I would add my story in case it helps you with future fosters (& bless you for fostering them! ) I love their names and they are so cute!!!


So (wow I’m getting old) about 20 years ago we found 2 orphaned kittens in the attic vent (they were really wedged in there.) I thought a bird had been trapped in the vent for the kitchen overhead fan. My mom heard it & said “no those are kittens!” Since I was in college I wound up feeding them/caring for them. We were clueless and they were just 10 days old. Somehow they survived but they had the worst bloody diarrhea! We would just rinse off their backend & dry them.... then feed them. We thought maybe it was the deworming medication at first. The vet suggested baby rice cereal which we added to their bottles of KMR and the blood stopped but they still had the runs. Then the vet said to give them like 1mm of an over the counter anti-diarrhea every day (I think, again 20 years ago. Ask vet before trying!!!) It worked!!! They both made it! Knowing what I know now I think the canned condensed milk (mixed with water) as emergency kitten formula that first day upset their tummy, along with deworming plus their being so young and without their mom for a couple of days ..... all combined to give them the runs and upset the flora in their gut. With more experience I would give them forti flora, 1/2 unflavored pedialite 1/2 KMR (& the rice cereal), vitamin b plus maybe some (unpasteurized) goats milk (& the medicine.) The kittens made it but had mild runs until we halfway weaned them (poor dears) plus the littlest kitten started fading (until my gentle neutered male cat starting letting her nurse off of him/adopted the kittens.) Also I realize I wasn’t feeding them in the best position so when I fostered again recently I watched all the YouTube videos to figure it out. Ironically that litter of kittens was constipated but thanks to this forum (and some olive oil) the runt skipped an enema at the vet and all 3 thrived!
I wish the shelter you foster was more honest and said ‘we can’t afford to feed all the cats here wet food so please get them used to eating dry food to.’ ....... but inter office politics. Lucky for your kittens you are paying out of pocket to upgrade their food.