Being patient with cat introductions v biting the bullet

[JimmyL]

Hi all

I have written here frequently and have been offered some great advice.

I have one indoor cat, been with us for 5 years after being found on the street as a kitten (Fleaso) . She is blind and friendly to those she knows but is nervous, and veers between timid and aggressive at times. We have slowly been introducing an outdoor cat - about a year old - and, although feral is very good-natured, friendly, and cuddly although full of energy (Bob).

We live in a medium-sized flat on the sixth floor of an apartment block. I carry up Bob, twice a day - for his breakfast and his dinner! He spends an hour each time with us, eating, playing, and occasionally snoozing. Fleaso stays on the terrace and in the kitchen; Bob in the main room and the bedroom.

They are occasionally close at the window that divides the lounge and the terrace. Sometimes Fleaso is inquisitive; sometimes she just snarls and hisses. Bob is more reactive - he only snarls back!

I have also brought them close with Bob being fed in a transporter and Fleaso outside. Same mixed results as at the window.

We feel it is important for Fleaso to be able to control her space, being blind and the original cat in the house.

I have been doing the above for 7 weeks now. Fleaso initially was very uncomfortable coming back into the shared space once Bob had visited. But she does seem to be getting better - We have one of those Feliway plug-in cat relaxers, which we have used for the last week and certainly makes an improvement in her mood.

But I'm thinking because little has changed, we need to try and bring the cats together in a controlled situation. My wife and I will both be in the room. We can try and distract them with games, but I know they will be more interested in each other.

We could try putting Fleaso at the top of a high cat tree we have; we could try just bringing them together for 5 mins at a time, and gradually increase the minutes together. I could try putting bob on a leash; I could try putting a collar and bell on him for the time he's inside (although he did react to that badly when I tried it before.

In summary, although there is no rush, I feel now is the time to try something...but I don't want to damage the patient work we've tried so far.

Any thoughts, cat lovers?! Thanks

 

[Elphaba09]

Is there a reason Bob cannot just stay inside? I think him leaving and coming back is slowing things down. Can you put him in one room and block it off with some gates for a while? Then you could do area switches so that Fleaso would be exposed to Bob's scent in that area and vise versa. Have a litter box in each area, and when you scoop, add some of their dirty litter to each other's boxes. Do they wear collars? I know you mentioned Bob having one with a bell, but was unsure if it was the bell or the collar in general that bothered him. You can switch their collars every couple of days.

When they are able to interact, try to stop any aggression with redirection and positive reinforcement. I like to click my fingers, say their name, and then offer some sort of treat (food, attention, or a toy). Our cat Tara used to stalk and assault one of our more timid cats, Astrid, and this worked on her exceptionally well.


I have introduced 16 cats to each other--three moved with my son when he bought a house--in my home and have had countless fosters up until a year and a half ago. All of my cats have been street cats, ferals (as in true ferals who attacked when we first caught them as kittens), and abused kittens from a bad breeder/hoarding situation. We got them at a variety of ages, ranging from 4-weeks to 10 years old. In fact, when we found three 2-month old kittens last summer, our oldest was 18, and the kittens were adopted by a 7-year-old 23 lbs male. While our one cat, Juniper, has aggression issues with three of the others occasionally, I would say we have had a 100% success rate considering the significant drop in her aggressions. Also, she has a hormone imbalance that adds to her aggression and is medicated for it.

 

[ArtNJ]

Time together seems the be the main driver of progress. So sometimes folks with an indoor/outdoor cat will have trouble making progress, because the indoor/outdoor will just spend more time outside to avoid unwanted encounters. Not exactly your situation, but you do have short intervals. So I totally agree with Elphaba09 that the short intervals aren't ideal for progress.

A blind cat is unlikely to try and start a fight, but certainly might swat if the other comes close. The danger is that even if Bob is merely curious, once in a while, a cat that is growled at, especially a cat that is swatted, a switch will flip, and they will decide they need to fight. So I see two possible paths -- (1) put up a baby gate (sometimes double stacked is needed) or homemade variant and let them be close but safe, getting some real time in with nothing bad possible; or (2) jump straight to closely monitored interactions of as much length as you can closely watch for -- i.e., a few hours if its going ok and you can watch for that long. Growling is fine, but you don't want them fighting.

 

[JimmyL]

Is there a reason Bob cannot just stay inside? I think him leaving and coming back is slowing things down. Can you put him in one room and block it off with some gates for a while? Then you could do area switches so that Fleaso would be exposed to Bob's scent in that area and vise versa. Have a litter box in each area, and when you scoop, add some of their dirty litter to each other's boxes. Do they wear collars? I know you mentioned Bob having one with a bell, but was unsure if it was the bell or the collar in general that bothered him. You can switch their collars every couple of days.

When they are able to interact, try to stop any aggression with redirection and positive reinforcement. I like to click my fingers, say their name, and then offer some sort of treat (food, attention, or a toy). Our cat Tara used to stalk and assault one of our more timid cats, Astrid, and this worked on her exceptionally well.


I have introduced 16 cats to each other--three moved with my son when he bought a house--in my home and have had countless fosters up until a year and a half ago. All of my cats have been street cats, ferals (as in true ferals who attacked when we first caught them as kittens), and abused kittens from a bad breeder/hoarding situation. We got them at a variety of ages, ranging from 4-weeks to 10 years old. In fact, when we found three 2-month old kittens last summer, our oldest was 18, and the kittens were adopted by a 7-year-old 23 lbs male. While our one cat, Juniper, has aggression issues with three of the others occasionally, I would say we have had a 100% success rate considering the significant drop in her aggressions. Also, she has a hormone imbalance that adds to her aggression and is medicated for it.

This is excellent advice, and coming from somebody with your degree of experience in bringing cats together, is really helpful.

Let me flesh out some more details.

My wife and I are from the UK and currently live in an apartment in Belgrade, Serbia. We plan to return to the UK in November - 12 weeks' time. Both cats will be traveling with me overland - 7 counties, and a 3-day / 2-night trip. In the UK we have will have a house with a garden.

So we are working backwards from this planned trip. In the UK, it is envisaged that Fleaso will continue to be totally housebound and Bob will be in the outdoors when we arrive back in the UK.

Bob currently spends most of his time in an enclosed courtyard surrounded by 3 apartment blocks. It is actually a nice place for a cat, with plenty of greenery trees to climb, away from the roads, dogs, and other difficult cats. I collect him in a soft transporter, every morning and evening, go up in the lift and enter our flat.

Between now and our departure, we also have 6 days at the end of the month, where we are away. In this time Bob will stay outside, and a cat-sitter will look after Fleaso (We think it would be too much to ask her to oversee the ongoing introductions).

So, as of September 1, we will be cranking things up, and will follow some of your suggestions.

One important point is how much we 'encourage' Bob to spend time in the flat; what might be the best ratio considering he might always have some time outside?

We can do the gate thing and all the other stuff you suggested.

I only purchased one collar, with a bell, to put on Bob (to let Fleaso know if he was around, although she picks up on him being close fairly quickly). I tried just putting it on him once in the flat - he went a bit mad, but I could persevere.

I read that it might not be a good idea for them NOT to share litter trays. The one I have for Bob combines soil from the courtyard area, where he goes to the toilet, and normal cat litter. I am gradually increasing the proportion of litter to soil, so it will eventually be just litter. I could mix their trays with each others' scents as you suggested.

I think they are both fairly used to each others' scent from what we have done so far. Initially, Fleaso would not come back into the shared area at all. But she seems to have got her courage up more; she comes in and sniffs around, and relaxes quicker. I think the Feliway is really working well for her.

I like your idea of creating boundaries and habits for when they interact and stepping in at the first sign of aggression. Any other tips on this specifically would be gratefully received.

many thanks

James

 

[Elphaba09]

I completely understand why you are waiting then. A cat sitter would lose her mind if she had to deal with introductions, and there is no guarantee that they would be acclimated to each other by the time you will be away. I do, however, worry about when you move and Bob being outside in an area he does not know. It could be unnecessarily stressful on him to let him out then. It could also cause an issue if Fleaso is an inside-only cat because he will not come home smelling the same every time, so she will have to adjust every time since they do not have an established relationship.

I, admittedly, am not a fan of letting cats outside unsupervised or in a catio. Mainly because I care for the local strays and ferals in my village and have seen too many hurt and dead. If you worry about him adjusting to indoor life, I assure you that he likely will be just fine. Most of our cats were adult outdoor strays when we found them. Our Simon was 10 (now 19) when we found him half dead. He likes looking out windows and that is it. (We have had one cat in all these years not be able to adjust. Personally, I think it was because he missed his family. They dumped him when they moved. He ran out of our house while we were fostering him and traveled 12 miles back to his old house. A neighbor there decided to take him after that.)

As for encouraging Bob to spend more time in the flat, once you move just place him in a safe spot inside with things he knows and gate him off from Fleaso. Play with him and make sure he--and Fleaso--have plenty of toys and interactive items to keep him from getting bored. You may find that he does not want to leave if you do not give him the option.

For the litterbox, they should have their own boxes. The ratio is 1 box per cat plus one. You can get by with one or two for two cats, but three would be ideal. (Unless you get a Litter-Robot or other self-cleaning litter box. Then that can be reduced. We have three Litter-Robots, and, while they pushed our budget, they are completely worth it! They even save on litter! It also saves my nose! Haha! We got one of them off of Facebook Marketplace, which helped with the cost a great deal.) With introductions, however, taking a little bit of used litter from each litter box (a small cupful would be fine) and putting it into the opposite litter box will get them adjusted to each other's scent faster. (A scared cat will often lie in its litter box to surround itself with its own scent to feel comfort. Adding that wee bit of litter adds the other cat's scent to a place they feel safe. Even if the cat does not lie in the litter box, they will start to associate the other cat's smell with comfort.)

I am glad the Feliway is helping! Bob might respond to a different type of spray. We usually keep a few different kinds on hand because we have so many cats.

Are Fleaso and Bob both fixed? If not, you might want to seriously consider that. It typically mellows them out and will make Bob less likely to wander when you move.

The clicking and positive reinforcement are the easiest and safest ways to stop aggression. I know people with spray their cats. It just teaches cats to not do that behavior while their owner is there and to distrust the person spraying them. Therefore, I would not advise spraying them! (You do not seem to be doing that, so good!) Figure out each one's favorite treat and keep it on hand for the times you need to avoid conflict. My stalker Tara who used to beat the crap out of poor Astrid at random moments still gets that look in her eye when she sees Astrid sometimes. I have her to the point that when I click and point down next to me she will stop what she is doing and come running. When you click (or snap your fingers), say the cat's name in a calm voice. Do it a couple of times. If they do not look at you or come over to you, walk over to them and do it again. If the look at you or otherwise disengage, offer them a reward. A treat or some pets on the head. Then, if you can, pick them up and remove them from the situation. After a bit of decompression, see if they are ready to behave. If not, go back to step one. It will work.

A bit unrelated, but have you spoken to your vet about any medication or supplement you could give Fleaso and Bob to make their part of the move less stressful? Since they are not used to traveling and with Fleaso being blind, it might be something for you to consider.

Honestly, I think you are doing rather well under the circumstance! Once you do not have to take Bob out, things will go faster. Thank you for caring so much about your cats!

 

[JimmyL]

Thanks for your lengthy response. I will put some pictures up soon so you can get a feel for our lovely cats (and some other ones of our flat to show how much we have 'catified' things...it's set up more for their entertainment than ours!)

Bob is already well trained when I come and fetch him with the transporter. He jumps straight in...probably because he knows food is on the way!

So we have from September 1 until November 7 to get them 'cohabiting' in their current environment. The house we are going to will be (a) much bigger in space for both cats and (b) allow easy access for Bob in the garden space.

Interesting what you said about him bringing different scents back in..that hadn't occurred to us.

So in this 12 week period, we could decide to try and make Bob just an indoor cat...OR maintain the idea of him being indoor/outdoor. We then have to decide whether we gradually increase the time he stays indoors, or bring him in completely - that seems like 'shock therapy', but you're suggesting they quickly adjust.

Yes, they have both been sterilized and vaccinated, and yes the Vet has suggested some nerve-calming drugs additions to their food for the duration of the long journey. I have also read that it might be worth getting the cat used to the travelling cage and taking them on the occasional taxi journey...so that they get some concept of what might be coming, instead of throwing them in at the deep end.

I will look into getting some different sprays, as you suggested.

Bob loves to play; occasionally he has slept while in the flat. One thing I probably have not been disciplined on is allowing him to deal/cope with boredom. Whenever he goes near the front door, or my wife disappears to look after Fleaso, he starts moaning. I immediately respond by playing with him.

After an hour or so of being in the flat, he tends to jump back in his transporter, as if to say: "I've had enough; I'm ready to go back outside." And thats' what I do, although I'm thinking I'm spoiling him a bit!

I love both the cats; looking after the street cats here in Belgrade has been, at times, heart-breaking. I may tell you about it someday...but to be able to adopt Bob (and earlier save Fleaso) has bought a lot of joy to both of us.

Many thanks

I completely understand why you are waiting then. A cat sitter would lose her mind if she had to deal with introductions, and there is no guarantee that they would be acclimated to each other by the time you will be away. I do, however, worry about when you move and Bob being outside in an area he does not know. It could be unnecessarily stressful on him to let him out then. It could also cause an issue if Fleaso is an inside-only cat because he will not come home smelling the same every time, so she will have to adjust every time since they do not have an established relationship.

I, admittedly, am not a fan of letting cats outside unsupervised or in a catio. Mainly because I care for the local strays and ferals in my village and have seen too many hurt and dead. If you worry about him adjusting to indoor life, I assure you that he likely will be just fine. Most of our cats were adult outdoor strays when we found them. Our Simon was 10 (now 19) when we found him half dead. He likes looking out windows and that is it. (We have had one cat in all these years not be able to adjust. Personally, I think it was because he missed his family. They dumped him when they moved. He ran out of our house while we were fostering him and traveled 12 miles back to his old house. A neighbor there decided to take him after that.)

As for encouraging Bob to spend more time in the flat, once you move just place him in a safe spot inside with things he knows and gate him off from Fleaso. Play with him and make sure he--and Fleaso--have plenty of toys and interactive items to keep him from getting bored. You may find that he does not want to leave if you do not give him the option.

For the litterbox, they should have their own boxes. The ratio is 1 box per cat plus one. You can get by with one or two for two cats, but three would be ideal. (Unless you get a Litter-Robot or other self-cleaning litter box. Then that can be reduced. We have three Litter-Robots, and, while they pushed our budget, they are completely worth it! They even save on litter! It also saves my nose! Haha! We got one of them off of Facebook Marketplace, which helped with the cost a great deal.) With introductions, however, taking a little bit of used litter from each litter box (a small cupful would be fine) and putting it into the opposite litter box will get them adjusted to each other's scent faster. (A scared cat will often lie in its litter box to surround itself with its own scent to feel comfort. Adding that wee bit of litter adds the other cat's scent to a place they feel safe. Even if the cat does not lie in the litter box, they will start to associate the other cat's smell with comfort.)

I am glad the Feliway is helping! Bob might respond to a different type of spray. We usually keep a few different kinds on hand because we have so many cats.

Are Fleaso and Bob both fixed? If not, you might want to seriously consider that. It typically mellows them out and will make Bob less likely to wander when you move.

The clicking and positive reinforcement are the easiest and safest ways to stop aggression. I know people with spray their cats. It just teaches cats to not do that behavior while their owner is there and to distrust the person spraying them. Therefore, I would not advise spraying them! (You do not seem to be doing that, so good!) Figure out each one's favorite treat and keep it on hand for the times you need to avoid conflict. My stalker Tara who used to beat the crap out of poor Astrid at random moments still gets that look in her eye when she sees Astrid sometimes. I have her to the point that when I click and point down next to me she will stop what she is doing and come running. When you click (or snap your fingers), say the cat's name in a calm voice. Do it a couple of times. If they do not look at you or come over to you, walk over to them and do it again. If the look at you or otherwise disengage, offer them a reward. A treat or some pets on the head. Then, if you can, pick them up and remove them from the situation. After a bit of decompression, see if they are ready to behave. If not, go back to step one. It will work.

A bit unrelated, but have you spoken to your vet about any medication or supplement you could give Fleaso and Bob to make their part of the move less stressful? Since they are not used to traveling and with Fleaso being blind, it might be something for you to consider.

Honestly, I think you are doing rather well under the circumstance! Once you do not have to take Bob out, things will go faster. Thank you for caring so much about your cats!

Thanks for your lengthy response. I will put some pictures up soon so you can get a feel for our lovely cats (and some other ones of our flat to show how much we have 'catified' things...it's set up more for their entertainment than ours!)

Bob is already well trained when I come and fetch him with the transporter. He jumps straight in...probably because he knows food is on the way!

So we have from September 1 until November 7 to get them 'cohabiting' in their current environment. The house we are going to will be (a) much bigger in space for both cats and (b) allow easy access for Bob in the garden space.

Interesting what you said about him bringing different scents back in..that hadn't occurred to us.

So in this 12 week period, we could decide to try and make Bob just an indoor cat...OR maintain the idea of him being indoor/outdoor. We then have to decide whether we gradually increase the time he stays indoors, or bring him in completely - that seems like 'shock therapy', but you're suggesting they quickly adjust.

Yes, they have both been sterilized and vaccinated, and yes the Vet has suggested some nerve-calming drugs additions to their food for the duration of the long journey. I have also read that it might be worth getting the cat used to the travelling cage and taking them on the occasional taxi journey...so that they get some concept of what might be coming, instead of throwing them in at the deep end.

I will look into getting some different sprays, as you suggested.

Bob loves to play; occasionally he has slept while in the flat. One thing I probably have not been disciplined on is allowing him to deal/cope with boredom. Whenever he goes near the front door, or my wife disappears to look after Fleaso, he starts moaning. I immediately respond by playing with him.

After an hour or so of being in the flat, he tends to jump back in his transporter, as if to say: "I've had enough; I'm ready to go back outside." And thats' what I do, although I'm thinking I'm spoiling him a bit!

I love both the cats; looking after the street cats here in Belgrade has been, at times, heart-breaking. I may tell you about it someday...but to be able to adopt Bob (and earlier save Fleaso) has bought a lot of joy to both of us.

Many thanks

James (and Gen!)
James (and Gen!)

 

[JimmyL]

Meant to add...

When we do move, Bob will have to be indoors (in our new home) for three weeks anyway, before we even consider letting him outside.