BAD biting problem

PeeWee111

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
39
Purraise
94
Location
North Carolina
I'm back again with another problem, folks. Our Kiki, who I found in our fire pit as a 2-week old and is now a great big 3 1/2-year old moose, has a serious problem with biting -- and it's not just playful nips or grabs. She strikes like a pit viper.

These attacks aren't terribly frequent, and they're unpredictable because they come without the usual cat signals of agitation. Example: she likes to get up on my desk and watch me when I'm at the computer. Most often, she'll curl up in a cubby and go to sleep, but occasionally she'll lunge and strike my "mouse hand" without any warning whatsoever. I assume this is because she sees a moving target, but I'm confused as to why she chooses a vicious bite as opposed to grabbing me with her claws. She's injured me three times this way, so I don't allow her on the desk any more.

It's been a few months since her last attack, but I had another incident with her last night. Hubs (who she prefers over me) went out of town on business, and in his absence, Kiki opted to join me in my recliner for TV time, which is highly unusual. She settled herself in my lap, and seemed content as I was stroking her. A few minutes later, she struck, leaving a nasty puncture at the base of my thumb that bled profusely. In pain and shock, I yelled, and she jumped off my lap immediately, did some self-conscious grooming, and then sprawled out on the floor as though nothing had happened. After letting the wound bleed, I treated it and went to bed. She followed me to the bedroom as usual, but I chased her out and shut the door. This was of course an emotional overreaction on my part, but this was also her most vicious attack to date, and though she's never attacked me while I sleep, I wasn't about to take any chances. (She was curled up outside the door when I got up this morning.)

I've read quite a bit about aggressive behavior, so I know that this may be due in part to insufficient socialization with her litter mates when she was a baby. I raised her in a household with two senior cats who either just didn't want to play with her or didn't care for her very aggressive play habits. I also noted early on that she was definitely an alpha-female type who wants to call all the shots, and given that I raised her from infancy, I sometimes wonder if she thinks I'm a cat instead of a hooman and is trying to dominate me. (It may be worth noting that Hubs took no part in the bottle-feeding or any of the other maternal chores, and Kiki has never been aggressive with him.)

I'm reaching out for help here because this situation distresses me greatly. When my two senior cats, Spike and Baboo, crossed the Bridge (Spike went a year and a half ago, and Baboo just left us last month), I thought that perhaps she'd calm down and mellow out as Queen of the household. Kiki and Baboo were never close; in fact, as Baboo aged and debilitated, she picked on him mercilessly, perhaps in a "survival of the fittest" fashion, but when he was near death, she started leaving him alone. Now she's attacked me without the least provocation (unless petting can be considered as provocation), and I'm starting to feel alienated from her.

This breaks my heart. She's a beautiful cat, and I love her dearly, but I can't tolerate this kind of behavior. She can be very sweet and affectionate at times, but only on her terms. I imagine that a visit to the vet is in order so that he can rule out any physical problems and provide some insight. Her weight may be a factor (overweight animals can often be miserable), and I'm working on that, but I'm convinced that she has some emotional baggage that's making her act this way, and I'm at a loss as to how to deal with it.

Sorry to go on at such length. I've had over two dozen cats in my lifetime, including two bottle-fed foundlings, and I've never had this problem before. Any and all advice is welcome.
 

Alldara

TCS Member
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Apr 29, 2022
Messages
5,556
Purraise
9,467
Location
Canada
When was her last vet visit? I'm wondering if something painful is going on. (Just as you mentioned it happens during petting sometimes)

How often are you playing with her with an appropriate toy? We stopped Calcifer's ankle biting by adding in an extra play session before work.

Does she have any kickers where she can get out her wrestle energy appropriately?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

PeeWee111

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
39
Purraise
94
Location
North Carolina
When was her last vet visit? I'm wondering if something painful is going on. (Just as you mentioned it happens during petting sometimes)

How often are you playing with her with an appropriate toy? We stopped Calcifer's ankle biting by adding in an extra play session before work.

Does she have any kickers where she can get out her wrestle energy appropriately?
Her last vet visit was two years ago, so yes, it's time for a checkup.

I probably don't play with her enough, now that you mention it. She does wrestle with the Lil Bub stuffed cat (it purrs and meows, and I had it in her playpen when she was a baby), but not very often. Her favorite game is "chase," where I toss a ball or a stuffed mouse or even just a crumpled piece of paper down the hall, but she never tries to catch the "prey" - in fact, she runs right past it, waits for me to pick it up, and when I wind up for the next toss, she's already gallumphed her way back down the hall before the toy even leaves my hand. (She's kind of an odd sock, in many different ways).
 

ArtNJ

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
5,508
Purraise
6,990
I agree that a vet visit is the best shot. If it is some sort of inability to judge how much force to use in a bite not meant for aggression then I have no idea.
 

lollie

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
311
Purraise
458
Yes, having no littermates is very likely the reason for her bad manners. Since your other cats were seniors, they simply removed themselves from the situation, so no help there.

The incidents with attacking your hand sound like play aggression. More play will definitely help this, but you can simply not allow her on your desk if she focuses on that action. Biting while you were petting her was probably overstimulation. My cat is highly prone to this and I have to watch closely for the signs. This means no stroking while you’re watching tv and not noticing that her tail has started to thump, etcetera. Also, watch for her no go areas. My cat does not like stroking anywhere in front, where she can not see a hand. So I can scratch the sides of her face, but not under her chin. She also has a sensitive spot on one leg from an old pulled muscle, so that’s another no go area.

Also, if she’s overweight, she may be biting rather than bothering to jump down and remove herself from the situation. A vet recommended diet and more play could help.
 

Kflowers

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
5,779
Purraise
7,620
Vet visit absolutely. Insist that they do a full body x-ray, for some reason they aren't inclined to do this and it's the best and easiest way to see if she has arthritis. Our cat was a bit less than a year old and rather aggressive when I insisted on a full body x-ray. It turned out she had arthritis on three of her vertebra on the lower half of her spine. Once she got on regular pain medicine - dashquin, like cosequin - the aggression backed off. You do still need to be careful how you pick her up, but the other attacks stopped.
 

Alldara

TCS Member
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Apr 29, 2022
Messages
5,556
Purraise
9,467
Location
Canada
PeeWee111 PeeWee111 My Calcifer is the same for fetch. We use a woolen dryer ball for a kicker and it's a huge hit.

You could try putting a small stuffing-free dog toy on a string and seeing if she will chase and wrestle.

Getting some energy will help. The vet visit will be most important. Both arthritis and tooth pain can be caused of agression in cats. It can start really young for either.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8

PeeWee111

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
39
Purraise
94
Location
North Carolina
Yes, having no littermates is very likely the reason for her bad manners. Since your other cats were seniors, they simply removed themselves from the situation, so no help there.

The incidents with attacking your hand sound like play aggression. More play will definitely help this, but you can simply not allow her on your desk if she focuses on that action. Biting while you were petting her was probably overstimulation. My cat is highly prone to this and I have to watch closely for the signs. This means no stroking while you’re watching tv and not noticing that her tail has started to thump, etcetera. Also, watch for her no go areas. My cat does not like stroking anywhere in front, where she can not see a hand. So I can scratch the sides of her face, but not under her chin. She also has a sensitive spot on one leg from an old pulled muscle, so that’s another no go area.

Also, if she’s overweight, she may be biting rather than bothering to jump down and remove herself from the situation. A vet recommended diet and more play could help.
Never thought about "no go" zones. All of my previous cats loved attention, whenever and however they could get it, so that's new territory for me. And she may just be a touch-me-not type who wants to be around us, but that's about it - she's never been a "hold me!" kitty. That doesn't explain the incidents on the desk, but the play aggression seems to fit that bill.

As for her diet, I've had her on Science Diet Perfect Weight for about a year, giving her the recommended amount for a 12-lb target weight. I can't tell if she's lost any weight thus far, because I don't dare try to pick her up to weigh her. The last time I did that, Her Majesty was much displeased. On that occasion, she weighed in at 17.4 lbs. She's a big-boned type with stocky legs and large primordial pouches, and looks just like her mother (a wanton hussy who roamed our old neighborhood), so I'm not sure just how much she should weigh. The vet should be able to judge that, though.
 

ArtNJ

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
5,508
Purraise
6,990
This means no stroking while you’re watching tv and not noticing that her tail has started to thump, etcetera.
This is so funny to me, because I had a rescue that for the first few years could only be pet on the head and neck and even in those spots, done just so, or youd get nipped (gently thankfully). I used to think "Come on! Can you *really* be so persnickety about the particulars I can't do it correctly why watching TV?"
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10

PeeWee111

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
39
Purraise
94
Location
North Carolina
PeeWee111 PeeWee111 My Calcifer is the same for fetch. We use a woolen dryer ball for a kicker and it's a huge hit.

You could try putting a small stuffing-free dog toy on a string and seeing if she will chase and wrestle.

Getting some energy will help. The vet visit will be most important. Both arthritis and tooth pain can be caused of agression in cats. It can start really young for either.
I just bought some of those dryer balls, so the minute I read your post I got one out and tossed it. She caught up with it and promptly sat on it. 🤣 She's mildly interested, but whenever I roll it down the hall, she gives me a look that says, "I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you expect me to do with this thing."

By the way, my avatar picture is Kiki when she was 2 1/2 weeks old. Here she is now. You can tell she has Cattitude.

IMG_1691.jpeg
 

Alldara

TCS Member
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Apr 29, 2022
Messages
5,556
Purraise
9,467
Location
Canada
I just bought some of those dryer balls, so the minute I read your post I got one out and tossed it. She caught up with it and promptly sat on it. 🤣 She's mildly interested, but whenever I roll it down the hall, she gives me a look that says, "I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you expect me to do with this thing."

By the way, my avatar picture is Kiki when she was 2 1/2 weeks old. Here she is now. You can tell she has Cattitude.

View attachment 448636
Oh she is lovely with her cattitude!
I put some catnip on mine. They sit on it a lot too 😂

I usually wait until they lay down and then roll it gently towards them. Fighting ensues. 😂
 

danteshuman

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
5,037
Purraise
6,089
Location
California
I vote vet visit and twice a day play sessions. Make the play a routine. It sounds like she is play hunting you. I would still like to rule out anything medical though.
 
Top