At My Wits End With Cat Peeing Outside Of Litter Box

[game misconduct]

Well, when she was peeing downstairs, it was in the evening. I was getting so paranoid about her peeing downstairs that I wouldn't be able to sleep. So, I started a routine with her where around 9/10pm, I go to bed and have her come to the bedroom with me by giving her a bedtime snack. I then close our bedroom doors. She has a litter box in the Master bathroom although she rarely uses it.

The peeing in my office is new. It does seem like it's the same general theme, though. It's typically in the evening when no one is around. Although, this morning she would have sprayed but I saw her and she used her litter box instead. After she used her litter box, I gave her a kitty treat. And tonight, I had just given her her evening meds (she is hyperthyroid and is on anti-anxiety med) and then I give her some wet kitty chow. So, she was done eating and went into my office (where her litter box is located). I saw her go over to the wall where she's been spraying. So, I watched her. She then went to a different area that was out of my site. So, I went into my office and sat. She finally used her litter box. Afterwards, I told her good girl and gave her a kitty treat. It does seem like this all started once I started letting her out on the deck on a regular basis.

However, the general peeing outside of the litter box is an ongoing issue. She'll stop for awhile and then it will start back up again. It seems like it's whenever she's alone and/or frustrated. So, let's say my husband is out in the garage and I'm outside with the dogs, there will be a pretty good possibility that when I come back inside, I will find she has sprayed. Another time when I can almost guarantee that I find pee is when I'm busy with something and do not feed her at her regular time. I feed her wet food several times a day because she also has bowel issues and yes I've spoken to several vets about it. They tell me to give her pumpkin and/or fiber. Which I have been doing. I also put water in her wet food for every meal.

I have also noticed that it seems if she's feeling frustrated, she will drag one of my shoes out of my closet into the kitchen and she yowls while she's doing this. When her peeing was at its peak, she would do this constantly and even at 2/3am. This has stopped and I think closing her in the bedroom at night has also helped. I was hoping that by doing this, it would be a signal to her that it's time to relax now. I will admit that recently I haven't been playing with her like I'd like to. My allergies have been miserable and I'm just so tired. However, in the past when I've done regular play times with her if I don't play with her enough or maybe one day I don't play with her that might also prompt an incident. And there have been times when she almost gets too wound up and starts the yowling even after I've played with her.

The only other thing to note is that her spots to spray are near her litter box. Not necessarily right next to it but near them. The area in my office was right next to the litter box but I moved it to a different spot because I don't even want her going over there anymore. Maybe this was wrong but I just want the area to air out. I have been thinking about rearranging my office. The reason I put her litter box in there in the first place because I read on one of Jackson Galaxy blogs that you should have a litter box in the main area. My office is opened (it used to be a breakfast nook) and is just off the kitchen and dining area. I originally had it in the laundry room but she hardly ever used it and if the washer was running it was so loud. I also keep one in our master bathroom which she hardly uses. And then there's one in the basement.

funny you bring jackson up i seen an episode where the clients had an issue like that. turns out there were cats, along with other animals marking on the out side walls of the home so it drove the indoor cat crazy driving it to mark,pee all around the home in an effort to reclaim its territorynot sure if it applies to your situation.

 

[danteshuman]

About the prozac, it is an antidepressant that has helped a lot of stressed out/problem pee-ers. I would give it a try and see if you can get her off the antiaxiety meds.

Have you tried cat attract litter? It also has helped a lot of people.

The thing that helps relax my easily stressed, hyper, very bonded to just me - cat, is his brother. They are a bonded pair. So hopefully after she calms down on peeing everywhere (like 6-12 months from now) you can give her a kitten with the same temperament as her.

With Jackie I let him be everywhere with me BUT I also don’t encourage it. In fact I will put an interactive toy in the bedroom while I hang out in the living room. So you can try a set schedule of when you leave her everyday & encouraging her to be apart from you. However if you are in the home; why not let her be with you?

I had a cat named Dante, who was a naughty terror when he was young! Then when he was 2 years old, I went against my x-husband & let him start sleeping with us. Half of his naughty behavior disappeared! (He was my shadow )



The white/grey one is my easily stressed problem child Jackie, the black panther is his brother Nick

 

[rubysmama]

Wonder if she'd like a Snuggle Kitty to keep her company when you're not around.

Smart Pet Love Snuggle Kitty™ Behavioral Aid Cat Toy | cat Treatments | PetSmart

 

[jagged37]

Wonder if she'd like a Snuggle Kitty to keep her company when you're not around.

View attachment 348537

Smart Pet Love Snuggle Kitty™ Behavioral Aid Cat Toy | cat Treatments | PetSmart

I love LIlly to be with me. But, she kind of likes hanging out on her own. The problem comes when she's left out like when we go outside. She wants to be outside with me and the dogs. Whenever my husband takes the dogs out for their morning walk, she sits by the window and watches them. And sometimes, she drags a shoe to the door and yowls. I have tried putting her on a harness and walking her but I feel like this only exasperates the problem (and she's not too fond of the harness anyway). The dogs would probably get a hold of Snuggle Kitty and destroy her after Lilly drug me out somewhere

She is on Paroxetine. I can ask about the prozac next time at the vet's office.

 

[jagged37]

You are a great pet parent. This was very comprehensive, and you are clearly observant.

I’m a behavioral consultant and I foster/rescue/hospice/adopt primarily seniors and special needs (both behavioral and health), and with those cohorts comes a lotttt of litter box issues.

I have at least two cats here at any given time with daily litter box issues. I know more than anyone how exhausting, emotionally draining, and stressful that can be.

Give me a bit to write up a more thorough response, but I wanted to respond now to clarify a couple of important things -

How long has she been on her thyroid medication?

Is she on Methimazole? What is the dose? What is the vehicle (pill, liquid, transdermal, etc)?

Is her thyroid under control yet?

Yes, she is on Methimazole transdermal and the vet recently checked her thyroid and it was in normal range. She was diagnosed by our new vet (we moved in November but the peeing issue had been happening way before we moved) in February. Actually it's a little on the high side but the vet said that protects her kidneys so that's what he wants.

She is also on Paroxetine for anxiety.

 

[danteshuman]

I can’t help with the meds but I can suggest a cat stroller. That way she can come with and she can still feel secure.

 

[jagged37]

I can’t help with the meds but I can suggest a cat stroller. That way she can come with and she can still feel secure.

I have actually thought about that. Or a backpack or sorts. She hates to be carried around or picked up really so maybe something like the stroller would be good. Then, she could be outside with the dogs and me.

 

[moxiewild]

Yes, she is on Methimazole transdermal and the vet recently checked her thyroid and it was in normal range. She was diagnosed by our new vet (we moved in November but the peeing issue had been happening way before we moved) in February. Actually it's a little on the high side but the vet said that protects her kidneys so that's what he wants.

She is also on Paroxetine for anxiety.

Do you mean slightly above normal range, or do you mean the high side within normal range?

Please forgive me, I have to go on a tangent here... there is nothing good about the thyroid being on the high side. Your vet is ascribing to a very outdated belief, and many other vets will confirm that.

It’s an old understanding of the relationship between hyperT and the kidneys. And properly understanding this relationship is crucial, because the old belief systems and treatment protocols harmed and even killed cats.

Hyperthyroidism masks the true state of the kidneys so they appear better than they actually are. This is highly problematic considering how important early detection of kidney disease can be and how damaging any amount of hyperthyroidism can be to the kidneys (and other organs, like the heart).

In some cats, when hyperT is properly controlled or cured, their kidney values suddenly take a turn for the worse (either they seem to suddenly develop CKD or their previously diagnosed CKD seems to become more severe).

So it was once believed that keeping the thyroid “a little high” was the middle ground between mitigating damage done by the thyroid while not inducing or worsening kidney disease.

But as the number one rule of science and statistics states - “correlation does not equal causation.”

We now know that cats who seemingly develop chronic kidney disease after being treated for hyperT, actually already had CKD to begin with. But because hyperthyroidism increases blood flow and other metabolic processes that directly involve kidney function, it makes the kidneys appear to be working better than they actually are when labwork is done.

An overactive thyroid is incredibly taxing to every system in the body. In no way does an “only slightly overactive” thyroid protect the kidneys.

That’s why the ideal treatment - even for cats with known kidney disease (so long as they are currently stable) - is radioiodine therapy, which is a permanent cure for hyperthyroidism.

HyperT and kidney disease are easily the two most common diseases we see in the sort of cats we take in. I have a lot of experience with cats with one or both diseases.

Your vet is wrong on this one, and his understanding of the matter indicates that he has done a poor job of continuing his education, at least where this is concerned.

And to be fair, continuing education is genuinely very difficult in veterinary medicine and I’m lenient on a lot because of that, but I find it unacceptable when it’s this outdated and when it regards the two most common diseases in older cats.

I know it’s a pain in the butt, but I’d honestly recommend a second opinion or switching vets.

I’m also aware that you didn’t ask for input on any of this, and I truly don’t mean to offend! However, I feel compelled to bring it up anyway, because someone on the internet doing the same for me when I also wasn’t asking for input on my vet/cat’s hyperT treatment ended up actually saving my cat’s life.

Here are the 2016 guidelines by the American Association of Feline Practitioners on feline hyperthyroid treatment -

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

It specifically addresses and debunks the old belief about keeping the thyroid “a little high” to protect the kidneys, starting on page 6. It is referred to several times (“mild hyperthyroidism”, for instance), but is most directly addressed in paragraph 4.

 

[moxiewild]

Back on topic, though -

Have you been able to determine whether she is spraying or peeing?

You use the terms interchangeably, but behaviorally speaking, they are two distinct behaviors and typically present differently. It’s also possible she does both at different times.

How often have you been able to catch her in the act?

Is she standing or squatting? Is her tail up and quivering? Is it always on vertical surfaces (you mention it being on walls and doors on several occasions)? Is it a lot of urine or only a little? We’d usually expect a hyperthyroid cat to have a larger than average volume of urine output too, so if she’s peeing, you should be finding relatively obvious and big puddles.

Additionally, would you mind elaborating on her relationship with your pups more?

 

[jagged37]

Regarding thyroid - high side of normal range after being on the medicine. I am not a vet so I don't know technical terms.

Regarding behavior - spraying and yes I understand what spraying is. Again not a vet so I use spraying and peeing interchangeably indicating that she is not using her box. But, yes, she is spraying as it is on the wall or other surface (closet door).

She does not have a larger than normal urine output. Even when she uses her boxes consistently, her pee spots are on the normal side of cat pee. When she sprays, it's not that much in comparison to the amount she pees in her box. In fact, there are times I only notice it because of the smell. Just so you know, I had a male cat with kidney issues and hyperthyroidism Fluffy always had a ton of pee in the box so I know what a normal cat pee spot in the litter box looks like. His wasn't. Lilly's is.

The dogs and Lilly get along fine. When we had the other cats, it always seemed like she was more comfortable around the dogs than the cats. Lilly will rub up against my female dog and Delilah will lick her ears and Lilly enjoys it. When Lilly is done with the attention, she moves on. Our male dog has snapped at her a couple of times when he's sleeping and she comes up by his face. I should note that Beau is getting older and has had back surgery so the snapping looking back on it was more than likely due to those issues. However, I do not blame him for snapping at her if she gets in his face especially when he's sleeping. So, if we are all on the couch, I make sure Lilly stays away from him. Even though, Lilly being a sassy girl, will often jump up right next to him. Any other time, however, Lilly will rub up against him and Beau smells her and they touch noses and all is fine. She was in the house before we got the dogs. So, I do not believe her relationship with the dogs has anything to do with this behavior. The only thing that might be related wrt the dogs is the fact that they get to go outside and she doesn't. And I do not believe that letting a cat roam around outside is a good thing for them especially where we live. We have a lot of coyotes and other predators that would frankly kill her.

 

[rubysmama]

Here's a TCS article that includes a section on spraying that might be helpful: Inappropriate Peeing, Spraying, Toy Obsession And Leg And Hand Nipping – TheCatSite Articles