Assessing Body Condition In Long-haired Cats?

[RosesNoThorns]

Does anyone have any good resources for determining body condition in long-haired cats?

While I am a new cat parent, I'm not entirely new to taking care of kitties---but all my previous experience is taking care of short-haired and clearly obese domestic shorthairs where the big struggle was trying to get them to lose weight.

Unfortunately both these boys lost their lives prematurely from health issues (notably kidney issues) because they were 20-25 lbs nearly all their lives.

I do not want Rose to become overweight, but in addition to it being challenging because she's long-haired, she came into the shelter described as being 'thin' (now does that mean slightly underweight or something else I don't know) at 2.92 kg/6.4 lbs but otherwise I have nothing to go on other than she obviously needs to be bigger than that. She left the shelter weighing 3kg/6.6 lbs but I have no idea what she weighed at the rescue.
From what I understand most female domestic longhairs are about 8-12 pounds as adults?

I don't think she's supposed to be a huge cat, so I've been offering her enough calories/food (according to the can) for a 6-8 lbs cat on the assumption that maybe 8 lbs would be her target weight and that she's both spayed and strictly indoor. Should I offer more?
Right now she's eating one 5.5 oz can that comes to 185 calories.

I feel like she's a bit thin but it can be hard to get an accurate feel with all the fluff. Sometimes I feel like 'oh, ok, I can feel her ribs but they're covered so she's good' but then she shifts and suddenly it feels too bony or I can feel the vertebrae behind her head/neck quite clearly.

Thoughts? I'm going to offer her 1 1/2 cans and see if she fills out a little. I don't think long-term she's going to be a huge cat, but perhaps I should aim for a 10 lb target weight and see how she does.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

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R RosesNoThorns - Without oversimplifying it, weight is meaningless without knowing the cat's Mass Index. My little Bob, for instance, has a BMI of roughly 44 - just a shade on the high side:

at just over thirty-five pounds, and a shade over 44 inches. Mass measurement has become "The Tool" in the current anti-obesity campaign, to the point where pet insurance companies have begun placing the Mass Measurement technique on their websites, vide:

Measuring my cats' body mass index - the FBMI

The technique has been, of late, described here:

Effectiveness of feline body mass index (fBMI) as new diagnostic tool for obesity. - PubMed - NCBI

and as long as your measurements are relatively accurate, will give a rough overview of your cat's weight-versus-mass condition.

It doesn't account for breed variances, nor does the technique strive to measure against known baselines, but rather - to the utter delight of insurance companies - it crams all cats into the same pigeonhole (and for some cats, the prior avian inhabitant had better have been a good sized pigeon), just as modern secondary hypertension indicators in Humans aren't measured against an initial baseline, but instead, against an wholly arbitrary number which, in more than fifty percent of cases, is whimsical at best, and ludicrous at worst.

Personal opinions:

1.) The vast majority of cats who feed ad libitum, self-regulate.

2.) "Dieting" works for a percentage of Humans, and that owed in most cases, to vanity. Mass control in cats is better served by exercise, and not by calorie counting.

3.) Hunger accounts for more emotional problems in domestic cats than any other single factor.

Since this is posted in the Health Forum, the usual caveats apply: always consult with a veterinarian, a dietician or nutritionist where health information is required; the above post should not be construed as medical advice in any manner or fashion; never put a bullet in the furnace.
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[RosesNoThorns]

Hmm, that's interesting.

I've actually never known a cat to self-regulate appropriately if free-fed (except possibly one). Every other free-fed cat regardless of gender had eaten to the point of visible excess weight and obesity (big wobbly bellies almost dragging on the ground, no waist etc).

I would think that exercise is only going so far if one is also massively over-consuming calories, no?

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

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"Over-consuming calories," would mean an energy intake insufficient to be offset by exertion hours based upon body mass, since a calorie is the measurement of kinesis equivalent to raise the temperature of one gram of water one degree Celsius at one atmosphere. This is certainly possible in most mammals if they consume 85% saturated fat, and quite nearly impossible on a diet where saturated fat is restricted to the remaining reciprocal.

"Over-consuming calories," leaves the impression of a buzzphrase cribbed from a modern glossy magazine which might be found casually sprawled across the table in a physician's waiting room. Cats are not people, and their digestive processes are enormously different from ours. As to the assertion that, save for one exception, "every other free-fed cat regardless of gender had eaten to the point of visible excess weight and obesity," in your experience, I'd draw the inference that perhaps your experience has been skewed.

In fifty-eight years of multiple-cat households, I've seen only a few (of my own) cats who met the definition of obesity, and my current clowder of eleven includes one of them, with two others coming to mind over the course of having been steward for quite nearly one hundred cats. Mine have always free-fed, typically cross the twenty year threshold without any medical issues, and have lived out peaceful lives solidly into their twenties in many cases, and one quite nearly to thirty years.

As Wren's shiftless Son caused to be engraved on the plaque adorning the architect's gravesite at Saint Paul's Cathedral, "lector, si monumentum requiris, circumspice." The monument is all about you here on TCS - innumerable cats pictured in countless threads, precious few giving much the appearance of obesity by any definition, and most feeding ad libitum, keeping lithe and trim by dint of good habits - their own and their owners'.

Again, the usual caveats apply here: always consult with a veterinarian, a dietician or nutritionist where health information is required; the above post should not be construed as medical advice in any manner or fashion; never believe anything absent scientific evidence, and if the weight of the evidence overwhelms, sharpen the intellect rather than convoluting the facts.
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[RosesNoThorns]

Your perspective is one that I haven't encountered before, admittedly, and one that seems to fly in the face of what is known.

Cats indeed aren't people, but I've seen obesity/excess weight in everything from reptiles to birds to arachnids to cats and dogs (and of course, people). The common factor being (assuming of course they weren't being fed something completely inappropriate) how much they were fed and how often---even if that was something low in saturated fat it would still cause weight gain if they were given too much. I mean, even at zoological facilities keeping the animals in shape requires careful attention.

To me excess/over consumption of calories translates into: the number of calories at which weight is gained instead of maintained or the number of calories that causes an animal to become overweight despite the energy burned in their typical activity levels.

I don't mean to start a fight or anything like that, but I'm simply just looking for a way to access body condition in long-haired cats when the current methods used by veterinary clinics etc. presumes/uses a short-haired cat.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

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Free advice: leave the idea of caloric intake aside unless you know the precise derivation of those calories.

If your veterinarian isn't assessing by using the Body Mass Index to which I linked in my initial reply, find a veterinarian who has set aside his or her fleams and leeches, and brought her or his practise howsoever grudgingly into the modern era.

If you have a cloth tape measure and a calculator (or remember how to use a slide rule), then you've no need of a veterinarian to assess your new companion's weight-to-mass scaling.

If you stay around long enough, you'll have the opportunity to meet the people who make TCS what it is - a supportive community inhabited by people who genuinely care for their cats (and other companions) - and into the bargain, will afford yourself the opportunity to see innumerable photos of cats, looking for all the world quite fit and trim, and the majority feeding ad libitum.
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[RosesNoThorns]

I don't necessarily think that doing things by body condition is of an 'outdated era' because this is the first that I've heard any vet either US or here in Canada use some sort of BMI.

But thank you for your advice regardless.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

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You're entirely welcome. Advice is free; good advice requires thought, and a modicum of understanding, whether being offered or accepted.

this is the first that I've heard any vet either US or here in Canada use some sort of BMI.

Solely for curiosity's sake, how long have you had a cat or cats?


FBMI feline body mass index - Google Search
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[RosesNoThorns]

Of my own directly Rose is my first.

However, I've either fostered/babysat cats on/off for months at a time and have lived in cat-owning households for years off/on.

This is just the first time in all the veterinary appointments I've either scheduled or sat in on (for a variety of animals) that I've heard of veterinarians using BMI.
It is not impossible of course that is indeed a thing up here and I just haven't seen it, but I'm from one of the biggest urban centres in Canada so I would have thought that at some point I'd have seen it.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

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My veterinarian trained at the Ontario Veterinary College at Guelph before buying his practise here in the States, and he's used Body Mass Index pretty consistently. I'd think that In Tronna, Edmonton, Regina, Vancouver or any major population center (i.e. "centre") that some members of the veterinary medical community would be doing so as well.
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[RosesNoThorns]

I'm in Montreal. That may admittedly make the difference.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I'm in Montreal. That may admittedly make the difference.

Ah yes... small Latin and less Greek no French and only a little English.



If you'd like, I'd be glad to ask my vet for a recommendation in your lovely city; he's here a couple times a week, so it's easy enough, and he keeps current with a fair number of Canadian practitioners. (Publish or perish, you know....)
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[Alejandra Rico]

I have always frew fed my cats with no weight problema, though they have always been active cats, with lots of toys and plataforma to climb, and long play sesions. There was always food left at the end of the day, or even the next morning, which tells me that they stoped eating when they felt full.
For cats who are not able to regulate their food intake, different strategies are necessary. However, It doesn't look like you have one of those cats at the momment, so you could try free feeding and see what happens.
If you are not comfortable with free feeding, you may consider continueing with your current system and adding an extra source of protein as a complement to your cat's diet. This way you know that you are not increasing significantly the fat and carbohydrates instake, but that there is enough protein available for her to build muscle, or to turn proteins into energy if she needs them.
Some chicken breast cooked just enough to kill bacteria can be a good option for your Rose.

 

[RosesNoThorns]

Unfortunately leaving food out is not an option, especially right now as it is very hot and humid and she does eat a canned diet with the intention of putting her on a raw diet.
My apartment building also battles a reoccurring issue with sugar ants so leaving out pet food all day for Rose is just asking for ants.

Right now I am trying to put down enough at each meal (she gets three/four a day---one every 6-8 hours) so that she gets enough to eat while also not wasting any and while maintaining a good body weight.

While she does get a decent amount of playtime but due to her CH she is not as active as a cat could be without it as she cannot really climb etc all that well.
I do wonder if it is an issue of needing to build muscle rather than needing to simply just put on weight.
I can try picking up some chicken perhaps to see if that'll help (I don't have animal products in the house except for Rose and the snakes....and I don't think she'd eat a defrosted rat haha).

 

[orange&white]

How old is Rose?

 

[RosesNoThorns]

She's a rescue cat so I don't have an exact age.
She is definitely not a senior cat and is young but is also not a kitten.

The vet at the shelter estimated her to be 2 years old.

 

[maggiedemi]

If you're feeding all wet food, I think anywhere from 5.5oz to 9oz would be fine. So one and a half cans sounds good. Maggie can eat up to 9oz a day of wet food and she weighs about 9 or 10 pounds. She's a long haired tuxedo.

 

[orange&white]

So she's a young adult. I'm feeding a feral who just turned 1 year and is 7.5 pounds of solid muscle and bones, no body fat. I also adopted a kitten who is turning 1 year October 1st. She has longer fur, is 9.2 pounds, and is definitely "squishy". She has a solid layer of fat over her ribs (which I can barely feel...and it's not the fur). I didn't notice the difference in body types until the feral started letting me pet her and I realized that she is not too thin, just muscular, but that my indoor cat is a bit pudgy by comparison.

Since Rose is a 2 year old and under 7 pounds, I think a 10 pound goal is probably too much.

Do you have a scale to weigh her regularly? I'd just look at getting her up 1/2 pound at a time and then reassess whether she is still too thin or at a good maintenance weight.

I just took my indoor cat for her 1-year vaccines and check last Thursday. I asked the vet if thought she was a little too pudgy for such a young cat. He offered good common-sense advice: "Weigh her once a month and measure her calories. If she gains weight, cut her calories back a little. If she loses weight, increase her calories a little." We agreed that she was "about right" at 9 pounds. Not very scientific; easy to follow.

 

[RosesNoThorns]

She'll be seeing the vet this Wednesday so I should be able to have an accurate weight on her then.
She was 6.5 pounds at the kill shelter in July and deemed to be thin. I adopted her in late August from the rescue, no idea what she weighed then but I'm assuming she was bigger.

I don't have a cat-specific scale but I do have a regular digital one for people.
I could always try and weigh myself, then myself + her and do the math but I don't know how accurate that would be.

 

[maggiedemi]

Yeah, 6.5 pounds does sound rather skinny. Try the can and a half and let us know how it goes.