As Fed Analysis For Merrick Bistro Pates Vs. Minced Flavors - Huge Difference

[jamieh922]

Hello,

I am a frequent reader but have never posted. I have used this website along with all the other links others provide to get a list of higher protein, moderate fat, low carb wet food options for my 2 cats. I am moving to all wet food. Since I do not want to give dry, and I have a budget to stay within, I am fine with offering Fancy Feast classics, Sheba pate, and any other "moderately" priced food like Dave's or Merrick.

Nearly all the posts show Merrick minced (Thanksgiving, Pot Pie) as having the lowest carb. And generally everyone agrees that Merrick pate is too high carb. I emailed Merrick to ask about their Bistro line and they gave me "AS FED" analysis for the minced and pate flavors.

I am so confused because the AS FED analysis show the pate to be a very good food - high protein, moderate fat, and low carb. But the guaranteed analysis does not. And flip side, the AS FED show the minced to be not so good food (really low protein!) whereas the guaranteed analysis makes them look good!

I want to start feeding the pate versions but so confused why they would not list more accurate information, or as fed information on their website?

TURKEY PATE - AS FED
Guaranteed Analysis Values Caloric Distribution Estimate*
% Crude Protein, min = % 45.88 % ME Protein
% Crude Fat, min = % 50.1 % ME Fat
% Moisture, max = %
% Fiber, max = %
% Ash, max = %
% CHO (by difference) = 0.98999999999999% 4.02 % ME Carb.

TURKEY PATE - ON WEBSITE

Guaranteed Analysis Values Caloric Distribution Estimate*
% Crude Protein, min = % 38.4 % ME Protein
% Crude Fat, min = % 46.63 % ME Fat
% Moisture, max = %
% Fiber, max = %
% Ash, max = %
% CHO (by difference) = 3.9% 14.98 % ME Carb.

THANKSGIVING - AS FED
Guaranteed Analysis Values Caloric Distribution Estimate*
% Crude Protein, min = % 29.85 % ME Protein
% Crude Fat, min = % 64.3 % ME Fat
% Moisture, max = %
% Fiber, max = %
% Ash, max = %
% CHO (by difference) = 1.98% 5.85 % ME Carb.


THANKSGIVING - ON WEBSITE
Guaranteed Analysis Values Caloric Distribution Estimate*
% Crude Protein, min = % 43.4 % ME Protein
% Crude Fat, min = % 52.7 % ME Fat
% Moisture, max = %
% Fiber, max = %
% Ash, max = %
% CHO (by difference) = 0.89999999999999% 3.91 % ME Carb.

 

[LTS3]

This explains the difference between as fed values and guaranteed values Food Table FAQ

The food charts on that web site are old snd have not been updated.

I believe the Catinfo.org chart has information at the end about the values used and why some brands are not listed on the chart because those companies consider their food propriety information.

 

[Azazel]

Companies prefer to present values that make their products look good and can sometimes be misleading. Personally, I do not look at as fed values on labels or guaranteed values. I contact companies for estimates of exact as fed values (not minimums and maximums - although, even exact values are "estimates" because different batches of food may vary slightly) and then calculate the percentage of calories from protein-fat-carbs based on these values. This is the same way that Dr. Pierson created her table on catinfo.org.

Talking about nutrients as a percentage of total calories is a lot more intuitive than looking at minimums and maximums without the moisture content factored out. What might appear to be a low carb food based on the guaranteed analysis may not actually be low in carbs.

 

[jamieh922]

Hi Aazel,

Thank you for the reply. I did contact Merrick for exact protein, fat and carb levels.

Then I plugged it into the "Caloric Distribution Estimate" calculator provided by the site "Balance it":
BalanceIT.com to get the calorie distribution as you suggested. So what you see below is the caloric distribution.

This is the AS FED as provided by the company today. These are REALLY different from what is listed in the label. The information listed on the label is not favorable when plugged into the calculator. The information provided directly from the company is much more favorable . If you use the information from the label, it shows 14% of calories from carbs. But when contacting the company directly, it shows 4% of calories from carbs. So I like what they told me personally, but why don't they list this on their website as it is actually favorable information? And really the only way to find out true values is to ask the company directly because the min/max numbers are misleading?

(And not bringing in the minced formulas to make it simpler, what I found is contacting the company made the information on the label look better than what it is).

Thank you!!

Turkey Pate

Provided by company today - 79.2% moisture, 11.3% protein, 5.08% fat, 3.08% ash, .35% fiber
% Crude Protein, min = % 45.88 % ME Protein
% Crude Fat, min = % 50.1 % ME Fat
% Moisture, max = %
% Fiber, max = %
% Ash, max = %
% CHO (by difference) = 0.98999999999999% 4.02 % ME Carb.


On label - 78% moisture, 10% protein, 5% fat, 2.1% ash, 1% fiber

% Crude Protein, min = % 38.4 % ME Protein
% Crude Fat, min = % 46.63 % ME Fat
% Moisture, max = %
% Fiber, max = %
% Ash, max = %
% CHO (by difference) = 3.9% 14.98 % ME Carb.

 

[Azazel]

I'm not really sure. I wonder if they changed formulas lately and you have one of their older cans? This might be a good question for the company.

 

[2BSH]

I feed merrick also. Generally speaking pates are almost always lower in carbs than anything in gravy.. I had emailed the company and asked for their as fed carbohydrate number on their pates and this is what they sent me they are all very low carb and my cats have done great on them and have been eating them consistently since I got them a year ago

 

[Azazel]

I feed merrick also. Generally speaking pates are almost always lower in carbs than anything in gravy.. I had emailed the company and asked for their as fed carbohydrate number on their pates and this is what they sent me they are all very low carb and my cats have done great on them and have been eating them consistently since I got them a year ago View attachment 248616

Thanks for sharing but these values aren’t as fed, they are on a dry matter basis. As fed would be on a wet matter basis. Still, they appear to be low.

 

[2BSH]

Thanks for sharing but these values aren’t as fed, they are on a dry matter basis. As fed would be on a wet matter basis. Still, they appear to be low.

That’s what I meant to say. I asked for dry matter basis.

 

[jamieh922]

Yes these are really low carb numbers, but I am still confused. I have an overweight cat and I want to understand how the calorie distribution - what everyone is talking about around here - impacts this.

For example, all the Merrick pates are low in carbs, but they are super fatty. If you look at the calorie distribution on the cat info.org site, the chicken, the duck, the rabbit - they all have 30% of calories coming from protein and over 60% coming from fat! So the pate are low carb foods, but at the price of being super fatty.

So my question is: is it better to have slightly higher carb foods than the ones that are over 60% fat?

Whole Hearth Farms Chicken Pate Calorie Distribution:
39% from protein, 51% from fat, 10% from Carbs

Merrick Perfect Bistro Chicken Pate Calorie Distribution:
34% from protein, 64% from fat, 2% from Carbs

Thank you!!

 

[Azazel]

Yes these are really low carb numbers, but I am still confused. I have an overweight cat and I want to understand how the calorie distribution - what everyone is talking about around here - impacts this.

For example, all the Merrick pates are low in carbs, but they are super fatty. If you look at the calorie distribution on the cat info.org site, the chicken, the duck, the rabbit - they all have 30% of calories coming from protein and over 60% coming from fat! So the pate are low carb foods, but at the price of being super fatty.

So my question is: is it better to have slightly higher carb foods than the ones that are over 60% fat?

Whole Hearth Farms Chicken Pate Calorie Distribution:
39% from protein, 51% from fat, 10% from Carbs

Merrick Perfect Bistro Chicken Pate Calorie Distribution:
34% from protein, 64% from fat, 2% from Carbs

Thank you!!

Cats process fat better than carbs so I would rather feed more fat than carbs. This being said, I don’t think a small amount of carbs hurts. I honestly stay away from foods that are too high in carbs or fat, but that’s probably why I make my own food.