Artie and his Issues

[rubear]

I understand exactly how you feel, I went through this with my Ruby. She would do fairly good with meds and then suddenly go through a spell when she wouldn't take them any more no matter what. She never EVER liked being given her meds by syringe, but when she stopped taking them in food (I used to crush up all the pills and put them in whipped cream) I had to. It worked for awhile. I used a supplement recommended by my vet called Lixotinic. She didn't love taking it, but she seemed to like the flavor and would take it ok from a syringe. So I started mixing her meds into it and had some luck. But eventually she began fighting me so much it was all over her and me and when it dried on her fur it was almost impossible to clean off and she couldn't even lick it off! It's the most frustrating thing in the world to know they need something but won't take it. I really hope your vets can offer you some solid advice. The best I could ever do with Ruby was to straddle her, stick the syringe in the corner of her mouth and hope for the best.

If Artie vomited yellow, I wouldn't worry about it too much, especially if there was a hairball. Sometimes, especially if there's not much food in their bellies they'll vomit bile and it will be just a yellowish liquid. Ruby did this occasionally. I wouldn't be too concerned unless it starts happening a lot.

 

[artiemom]

Last night, Artie had a few more patches of stuck fur (laxatone). He would not allow me to touch these areas. I was surprised when he jumped on my lap last night.

I reviewed all the techniques for medicating cats.. both pills and liquids..written word and You Tube..

I ended up taking a towel--smaller that a bath towel, to semi-wrap him in, while he was in the corner of my chair. I also took out a much smaller syringe for the water/miralax cup. I took that over to where I medicate him. I also took an extra syringe for water.. just a tiny bit--few drops at a time. I also had some lactulose in a cup, and filled up a syringe with a smaller amount, taking an additional one with me.

I was slow, confident, and had all this stuff for back up. The extra syringes helped.. as well as having the extra cups there. Artie was still fighting me, but nothing compared to during the day.

He did ok with his cisapride also.. I used a smaller syringe for the water/miralax chaser and had a cup with more of the mix in it.

This morning, I attempted the same thing. I got more resistance first round. I let him rest in-between his fighting so he could calm down a bit.

The second dose was a bit worse, but still not like yesterday. I am going to try the smaller syringes and increase the ratio of miralax to water..

Last Night, Artie pooped again: 8 x 1-1 1/2 inches... so he did good.

I do not know how much lactulose I got in him yesterday. I have absolutely no clue at all. We will find out, soon enough.. probably tomorrow or even late today.

The sticky parts of his fur are gone. He must have washed it off, and swallowed it during the night..

Artie refused to be brushed today. I do not blame him. It was an ordeal yesterday.
He was on the verge of really running around playing today, but he settled for just a few chases at his 'new' favorite ball, a few minutes of the red dot, and several bunny kicks at his mousey, and chili pepper.
And His Hunt/chase for his dry food. I throw it to him, and he acts like a Goalie with them.

Warming his sub-q's right now. The 21 gauge needles are not bad. He is not flinching at all. They do take a lot longer for the fluid to drip in. So far, Artie has not been nudgey about it.. fingers crossed.

His food intake was not good yesterday, only 1/3 of a cup, but he had a very stressful day. I also replaced the Feliway refill.

Margret The dose of cisapride is minuscule.. only 0.5 of a cc. Not enough to mix in with the miralax. He also spits out a ton of the miralax.

 

[rubear]

That's good news! I had MUCH better luck using small syringes with Ruby. I could only use 1 ml syringes (which probably aren't practical for the amount of meds you're giving) and rarely I could use a 5 ml syringe that had a long skinny end (it's a reusable one made for giving baby meds), but I usually used it for giving laxatone.

 

[artiemom]

I was using a 10 cc syringe for the miralax/water mix. I never gave him the entire dose, but it was what I could find at the time I needed a feeding syringe. It is a pediatric syringe, from CVS.

Last night, I was using 3 cc syringes, and the 1 cc (ml) for the cisapride.

Sorry, I am used to using cc instead of ml~~ human hospital employment my entire life. We always talked in cc.

Artie was awesome with his sub-q's.. not a flinch. He actually stayed in the same position the entire time. He was in a recumbent position, and stayed that way; head down and on his paws. The fluid was nice and warm.

 

[IndyJones]

I think vets use cc as well or at least mine does.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

I think that the smaller syringes must be a cat thing. Hekitty, when I occasionally do have to dose her, does FAR better with a 1 cc insulin syringe. I do keep one 3 cc syringe just in case I ever have to force-feed or hydrate again, just as a backup. I can sorta see their (the cats) point, though. A 3 or 5 cc syringe is very big compared to a cat's face.

 

[katlady-18]

I'm sorry Artie is giving you such a tough time. Wish I had some advice. It really is frustrating that we can't explain to our little furry ones that we're just trying to help, not harm them.

 

[neely]

I'm so sorry I have been MIA from your thread. Unfortunately a family member had a serious health problem that has kept me away. But tonight I got caught up and would like to express my concern for what you have been going through with Artie's meds. I think we can all relate to some extent but you are my hero! Tonight I will pray for the poop fairy to make a special visit, for Artie to get his appetite back and cooperate with mom giving him his meds.

 

[artiemom]

I'm so sorry I have been MIA from your thread. Unfortunately a family member had a serious health problem that has kept me away. But tonight I got caught up and would like to express my concern for what you have been going through with Artie's meds. I think we can all relate to some extent but you are my hero! Tonight I will pray for the poop fairy to make a special visit, for Artie to get his appetite back and cooperate with mom giving him his meds.

Oh Neely, I am so sorry for your family member, and for you!
Why would you apologize to me?? I do not understand!
We are all in it together..
And as for me being anyone's hero, well, I am far from it! I mean it. I am the opposite, a wimp...

Thank you for your prayers. They were answered this morning. Artie pooped 8.5 x 1 inch.

When I was in bed, waking up, I felt him cuddled up against me. He was so soft, warm, sweet. I turned a bit. I can turn over, but I have to keep in contact with his body. If I do not, he will jump off. We cuddled for a half hour. I loved it. He was purring, and just so nice and warm. I am weird; feeling his heart beating and his breathing, really calms me; along with the warmth, softness of his body.

He went to his litter box immediately upon me rising. He was such a good boy.. then we 'chased' a bit around the house--mini zoomies.

He was not bad for his first meds.. now it is time for his second ones. These are the ones he really fights.

I got up so late. I am really messed up today.

It is gloomy outside, not as cold as yesterday, and no rain.. Artie is curled up on his quilt.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Tell Artie that I said he's a very, very good boy to poop so much for his dear person! And not to fight his meds, although...given a choice between an Artie to miserable to fight, and a wee tiger, I'll have to take the tiger.

 

[rubear]

I am weird; feeling his heart beating and his breathing, really calms me; along with the warmth, softness of his body.

You're not weird at all, all the cuddling and purring is a proven stress reliever! I could never sleep if Ruby didn't come to bed. If she wasn't there when I woke up I'd have to go find her. After she passed away I couldn't sleep at all. I recorded her purring on my phone and sometimes if I get stressed out I'll close my eyes and play it.

 

[artiemom]

Well, The saga of Artie continues. sigh...

While his weight is stable, and he is eating well, and drinking water; his refusal of meds is horrible! I really do not know what to do.

The NVet's sec did ask him about this. NVet said that we could either try giving all the lactulose in one sitting ~~~ no way will this work; or we could try Colace. I am unsure about switching his meds around, since they were working so well.

I was not home to speak to the Sec. This was on my VM. I left a message that I was confused as to which med the Colace would be substituted for.

Artie also vomited from his liquid cisapride, yesterday afternoon. I think I was trying to give him too much miralax, as a chaser.
It seems that 0.5 cc of cisapride along with 6 cc of miralax water was too much for him.

I just got the thought of trying tuna water mixed with miralax! I wonder?????

Anyway, He was a Bear last night with the Lactulose.. again.
The cisapride was a bit better....

I am also thinking getting a new script for the Cisapride to be compounded into a capsule. I wonder how large that capsule would be?
I have some capsules at home, different strength, but I would have to give him 2 at a time for the new strength.

Since he has not been getting the appropriate dose of miralax, he is pooping every other day.. not every day. sigh..

Artie is alert, chunky (weight stable at 11 lbs) drinks water, eating 1/2 of dry fiber response food daily, but it is his meds which he is fighting..

Trying to equate his behavior with that of humans.. I guess he is rebelling because he does not have any control over it. He needs to have control, and this is his way of rebelling..sigh...He is lashing out

Just got off the phone with the Secretary. She is running all these thoughts by the N Vet and will get back to me. The N Vet may just say that it is up to me, because he feels I have good instincts, but I just need the validation and advice..

gotta go...

 

[neely]

Thank you for your prayers. They were answered this morning. Artie pooped 8.5 x 1 inch.

Glad the poop fairy made a visit but sorry it's only every other day. It sounds like you're having a very challenging time trying to get Artie to take his meds. Cats can be pros at being stubborn. However, I'm sure you're spot on about his wanting to be in control. I wish I had a novel idea or suggestion but I'm fresh out. Please keep us posted on when you hear back from the N Vet and what he advises.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

The furry soccer ball informs me that your Artie is the soul of cat-patience, and that if I did half of what you have to do to Artie, I would look like a pile of raw hamburger. I think she means it! But really, you do so well with him, and he with you. I know this is frustrating, but, as I said, at least he now feels like fighting you! Maybe Nvet will have a good solution for you.

 

[artiemom]

Artie is acting sick. He is not eating much today. He is curled up and does not want to do much of anything.. a really off day.. no poops....

I really do hope I did not give him an aspiration pneumonia. sigh...

This afternoon, He took the cisapride really good; however he was a terror with the small amount of miralax mixed in water--only 3 cc.. I do not know what is going on with him.

The cisapride compound is a bit thicker than water..and it is kept in the refrigerator. I am wondering if Artie suddenly wants cold stuff?? I put a syringe of water/miralax in the refrigerator, to try out later tonight.

 

[inkysmom]

I have trouble medicating both of my cats and had a lot of trouble medicating my beloved Inky who just died of cancer 3 days ago. He needed a lot of meds twice a day between pain meds from cancer, insulin from diabetes, antinausea meds when chemo made him sick and antibiotics from frequent infections after lots of surgeries, being diabetic and scratching his tumors raw.
He was so bad with pills and liquid meds, he'd drool and fight and sometomes throw up and I never felt like he got the full dose. Plus his cancer was in his ears and the tumors would bleed everywhere with the slightest touch and he had to wear a cone or donut and he hated having his face or head touched after all the surgeries and ear treatments so I hated fighting with him. Being diabetic he couldn't not eat or vomit it could become life threatening very quickly. So I advocated to get all or most of his meds in injectable forms. If you can give subcutaneous fluids it's the same thing many meds are made in subcutaneous form. I even learned how to give benadryl intramuscular which was much easier than liquids or pills. He never flinched or moved for 4 or 5 injections 2 or 3 times a day, it took less than 5 minutes and it was so nice not to fight with him. Much quicker than waiting for subq fluids to absorb. Much less traumatic for both of us too. The last thing I want to do with my beloved chronically ill cat is fight over necessary meds, especially for my cat who was dying.
You could ask your vet, I'm going to continue to advocate for both of my other 2 who are also awful to medicate. Best of luck to you both. Arties got an awesome loving mom!

 

[artiemom]

Thank you.. The meds he is currently taking can not be compounded into injectables.

Artie was not himself yesterday.

Finally, at around 8pm, he pooped!! Yay!! 2 days in a row. This one was a good size, 8 x 1 -1/2 inch !!!
He then began to eat!

I tried giving him around 3 cc of miralax mixed with cold water-- I kept both the syringe and the miralax mix in the refrigerator. He was a bit better with taking it. I wonder why? Cold?? for a cat??? He does not feel hot... I wonder if he has a sore throat and the cold feels good to him?
He was a bit better in taking it both last night and this morning--very strange..

Artie was a bit better with the lactulose also.. not his usual good self, but a bit improved. I managed to get, I think 2 cc in him. Yes, he did get a good shower all over him.. yuck.. he is a sticky mess.

It is hard because I give the meds at night, and I am sleepy, and it is dark. One is given anywhere from 8:30-9:30pm and the other is usually around 10:30pm. I do not feel like fighting with him at that time of night.. and he is usually curled up, cuddling with me on my lap.
After the first med, he jumps off and stays away from me.. sigh

I woke up to Artie cuddled up to me in bed.. so sweet. When I got up, I think he wanted to play. He heard me in the kitchen gettting hois stuff together, he went hiding behind the bureau in his room. I ignored him, looked out the window, when suddenly I heard a sweet MEOW. He came out from his hiding spot. As soon as Artie saw me look at him, he ran into my bedroom, looking behind to make sure I was following him, and went under my bed!!! Oh no, I thought. I went over to get the broom..I could see Artie's tail sticking out. I put the broom under the bed to shoo him out. He ran out the other side and just stayed there, looking at me and the top of my bed. I stopped in my tracks, watching him. He meowed again, then jumped on my bed, then he calmly jumped down. That is when I grabbed him.

He was really good, sitting on my lap, until a neighbor walked by with her screaming toddler, who has a voice so loud, that it would wake the dead.. and of course, my apartment is the stomping ground for a tantrum.. I really dislike this family. They are so inconsiderate of others. long story...Artie got spooked by this screaming kid.. seriously, this kid's voice would cut glass.. he sounds like a cat screaming in pain.. sometimes I mistake his screaming for an Artie scream.. and Artie thinks it is someone in pain..

He was good with the cisapride this morning.
Time for the lactulose, so we will see.

Walmart, liars as they are, did not have the 50mg colace in stock. They had to order it. If I wanted it at a cheaper price, as in on-line, I would have to wait a couple days for it. I decided to have the pharmacy order it for me to pick up today. If it is helpful, I will order it on-line.

I think I am going to ask them their prices for lactulose and lactated ringers also. Just checking for a good price on things.

Have to order more cisapride today. never ending..

The N Vet is off until Tuesday. I am not worried. I am ok..He deserves a break..

Time to start my day..

 

[pushylady]

yay for poop!
That's such a shame about your inconsiderate neighbours. We have a few of those too unfortunately. My cats got quite spooked from hearing a puppy barking for hours the other night, and then the next day they didn't want to go for their walk, like they were still spooked!
I hope he's good for you tonight too.

 

[IndyJones]

My cats like their canned food chilled too. I even had one who wouldn't eat food unless it was refrigerated. Maybe they like icky fridge taste? IDK

 

[Margret]

artiemom , I figured out a long time ago that the way to take really nasty tasting pills (uncoated aspirin, at the time) is to start with a couple swallows of ice water. It seems to, um, paralyze?, the taste buds so that by the time they come back online the aspirin (or whatever) is but a distant memory. It could be that this is what you're observing with Artie.

Regarding having the cisapride put in capsule form, that's actually what I was thinking of. You can get very tiny gel caps at a compounding pharmacy; I've used this before to cut really large, bad-tasting pills down to a size a cat can swallow more comfortably, without the nasty taste. With a liquid, like the cisapride, you would want to put the medication in the capsule just before administering it, of course.

You should have little or no problem putting the cisapride in a tiny capsule, considering how little you're giving him. The Miralax, unfortunately, would take a heck of a lot of capsules, which is likely to provoke a strong negative reaction from Artie.

Colace seems to be a stool softener. Docusate (Colace®) for Dogs and Cats Since both the cisapride and the Miralax are for constipation I don't know which the Colace would replace, perhaps both.

inkysmom , I'm so sorry to hear about Inky's passing. You know that you're always welcome to come to us for support in your grief, right?

Margret