Are We Siamese?

M

medinazahra7

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
7
Purraise
21
I've been confused by what colorpoint is Muiza? Can anyone help me?

PS: Are they even Siamese?

*If there's anyone who asks; they came to me as stray cats when they're about one month old. They came to my house for food, then the next thing, they become part of my life, my family's life :blush:
 

Attachments

Furballsmom

Furballsmom

Cat Devotee
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
39,437
Purraise
54,188
Location
Colorado US
I get such a kick out of how genetics work, even when we don't know for sure ;)
Anyway I just learned a neat little factoid (for someone who lost her heart utterly to Meezers first, then to Maine Coons and now to a very handsome mostly Turkish Angora), Ragamuffins have round eyes rather than Ragdolls' more oval and always blue eyes.
 
Last edited:
StefanZ

StefanZ

Advisor
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
26,080
Purraise
10,783
Location
Sweden
NOW I remembered. If purebred, such a combo of siamese point and burmese point looking as darkish siamese old style, the breed name is Tonkinese.

Red is thus a tonkinese look a alike, carrying also white.

If they are littermates, a guess is a such double point carrier, perhaps even a purebred tonkinese, met the momma whom had the siamese gene, one or both..

Last controll question: Did red darkened up on body quickly, already as kitten?


Burmese point dont dont carry blue eyes, so such a point combo has seldom good blue eyes. But the purebred tonkineses has better blue than moggies with the same combo.
Its another strong indicium one of the parents, probably dear daddy, was a purebred tonkinese.

Momma was surely black, probably a black and white tuxedo bicolor. Pointed herself or just a non pointed carrier of the siamese gene.
 
1CatOverTheLine

1CatOverTheLine

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
8,674
Purraise
34,616
stefanz said:
NOW I remembered. If purebred, such a combo of siamese point and burmese point looking as darkish siamese old style, the breed name is Tonkinese.

Red is thus a tonkinese look a alike, carrying also white.

If they are littermates, a guess is a such double point carrier, perhaps even a purebred tonkinese, met the momma whom had the siamese gene, one or both..

Last controll question: Did red darkened up on body quickly, already as kitten?


Burmese point dont dont carry blue eyes, so such a point combo has seldom good blue eyes. But the purebred tonkineses has better blue than moggies with the same combo.
Its another strong indicium one of the parents, probably dear daddy, was a purebred tonkinese.

Momma was surely black, probably a black and white tuxedo bicolor. Pointed herself or just a non pointed carrier of the siamese gene.
Click to expand...
StefanZ StefanZ - I couldn't agree more; this is a "Snowshoe" bred cat (after the same method that Dorothy Hinds-Dougherty bred the original Silver Laces cats in the early 1960s) who expresses cb in the coat, and cs in the eyes. My bet inside stefanz's working out of the genetics is on the black and white bi-colour carrying cs on the C Locus, since the bicolour queen would naturally carry epistatic white as well.




Furballsmom said:
Smart dollbabies, they knew you :)
I'd say the top one is ragdoll and snowshoe and meezer (Siamese) , the bottom one is a lot more Siamese. That's my two cents anyway ;)
Click to expand...

Furballsmom Furballsmom - Ragdolls and other purebred cats don't fall under the "long hair is recessive" edict, and with many longhaired breeds, the coat length is controlled by another factor - the FGF5 gene variants M1 - M4.

Posted prematurely.

Raggies carry M1, M3 and M4 mutations; M1/M1, M3/M3, M4/M4 inheritance always produces longhaired cats, and N/M1 & NM3; N/M1 & N/M4; N/M3 & N/M4 will nearly always produce longhaired offspring, unless they fail to inherit one mutation from each Parent. Ragdolls' blue eyes are the result of Siamese ancestry - carrying cs on the C Locus.




Secondary edit: Hey @gareth - get over here and see this - a Burmese Snowshoe! Just imagine if they had thumbs!
.
 
Last edited:
1CatOverTheLine

1CatOverTheLine

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
8,674
Purraise
34,616
Furballsmom said:
...Thumbs, heh, lordy we'd all be in trouble. Really interesting info regarding the long hair gene!
Click to expand...
Furballsmom Furballsmom - It's the same with Norwegian Forest Cats and Maine Coon cats as well - the former carries the M2 mutation; the latter carries M4. Inheritance from purebred Parents in these breeds will always produce longhaired cats - owed to the FGF5 gene variation.



Edit - to save StefanZ StefanZ or @abyeb the trouble of putting a finer point on my rather cursory view in this discussion: the M4 mutation is the determining factor for the other ten natural longhaired breeds - the Angoras, Balinese, Birman, Himalayan, Persian, Ragdoll, Siberian, Somali, and Turkish Van. There was actually a very in-depth examination described in the J.O.H. ten years ago regarding phenotype determiners:

Four Independent Mutations in the Feline Fibroblast Growth Factor 5 Gene Determine the Long-Haired Phenotype in Domestic Cats | Journal of Heredity | Oxford Academic




One final edit: M medinazahra7 - They're both incredibly beautiful kitties!
.
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
M

medinazahra7

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
7
Purraise
21
Furballsmom Furballsmom thank you, that's sweet of you :blush:

StefanZ StefanZ yes, they're siblings littermates. Anyway, it's very very interesting to read your explanation, and how you guessed the momma's colour: you're right! it's non pointed, black and white tuxedo bi-colour :thumbsup: Thank you
Oh, and about the fur colour, I think Muiza (the red one :blush:) get lighter. When he was first come to my house, he was more darkened. As he grows old, the fur colour get lighter.

1CatOverTheLine 1CatOverTheLine thank youuu, that's sweet of you you guessed exactly right on the momma's bi-colour ;)

pushylady pushylady thank you, that's sweet of you. Yes, we love them soooo much :heartshape:

W Willowy I live in Semarang, Central Java, Indonesia. It's in the same country as Bali. :)

Thank you everyone for responding :blush: You really made my day :goldstar::heartshape::hearthrob:
Pardon for my bad english :blush: IMG_20170813_100701_560.jpg Little Muiza

IMG_20180119_162735.jpg
Muiza now
 
1CatOverTheLine

1CatOverTheLine

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
8,674
Purraise
34,616
medinazahra7 said:
My bad, I think the colour gets darkened as he grows older :D

What do you think? ;)
Click to expand...

M medinazahra7 - I think three things:

1.) Yes, the coat colour will darken; the cb and cs alleles are both linked to temperature-sensitive albinism.

2.) Furballsmom Furballsmom is absolutely right - your English is extremely good!

3.) Muiza is one of the most beautiful kitties I've ever seen, and I have a Snowshoe:

mooshuprinter.jpg


As far as guessing the black and white Parent - StefanZ StefanZ did all the hard work, working out the Burmese coat colouration and then backtracking the Parentage to Tonkinese to account for blue eyes rather than greenish-aqua - and he was the one who originally proposed either a black or black and white maternal Parent. Knowing that there's no epistatic (dominant) white between Siamese and Burmese, left the white inheritance as the only unsolved piece of the puzzle. He did all the genetics work.

Moo Shu - my Snowshoe - says that Muiza can come and visit her any time!

Welcome to TCS, medinazahra; I hope you'll stay around this little community; I'd love to see more photos of Muiza - and I'll bet that a great many other members would as well.
.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top