Are We Doing Okay With Our Introductions?

[LuPiZeCo]

Hello all

Three weeks ago, we got two kittens (boys). We already have two cats (girls), both 18 months ish, who met at 6 months and were friends in days.

We have followed introduction advice as far as we could, bearing in mind that the girls are not food orientated and are very particular with their playtime, so we weren’t able to use these. We did scent swapping and room swapping until the girls seemed more comfortable and not hissing at the smell. We started face to face through a gate and feeding treats until we could do that without hissing. And then we’ve let the boys out for chunks of supervised time.

One of the girls has taken to them, has already slept and played with them, though has hissed on occasion if they get too rowdy. The other girl is not so fond, she is hissing, growling and swatting at them. Usually only if they come too close, but yesterday she did it while one of them was sleeping.

I can’t work out if this is normal? I’ve read loads and am just confused! I expected her to be the friendlier one so it has surprised me. Does it sound as though it’s going okay?

A bit of extra info, I have read Jackson Galaxy’s book and watched the show. We have plenty of cat trees and shelves. We have 4 litter trays, food bowls and water bowls, in different areas of the house. So I thought I was prepared!

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! Welcome!!

One of the girls has taken to them, has already slept and played with them,

I think you're doing a really really amazingly good job! This is fantastic!!

but yesterday she did it while one of them was sleeping.

Try some music for her - she sounds a bit stressed. There's MusicForcats . com, there's an app called Relax My Cat, and there's also low volume classical harp music that can work surprisingly well to help calm cats

 

[She's a witch]

I'm assuming the girls are spayed, are new kittens neutered? If not, how old are they?
When she hissed (swatted?) at a sleeping kitten, did she come close with the intention to hiss at him, or was he just there where she woke up? I guess I'm trying to know if she just stumbled upon him in surprise and reacted or if she proactively approached him despite he was sleeping? Is she acting OK otherwise, or does she seem stressed to you with their presence?

 

[FeebysOwner]

Are/were the girls close before the boys were introduced? Is the one girl who likes the guys spending less time with the other girl? Maybe the 'neglected' one is blaming the boys for taking away her best bud?

You might have to arrange for some 'old' play time between the girls, just to help the one know she still has her friend. Perhaps, she will feel more confident in her place within the crew if she knows she has not lost her best friend to the guys. And, then she will be more inclined to accept them.

 

[Danglos]

Stroke the original cats first, ignore the kittens, play with the cats, again ignore kittens, maybe get a calming spray or Felliway plug in. Maybe one cat is just jealous that their long time buddy has befriended these new kittens, possibly feels jealous, threatened, confused or under stimulated. Play some more.

We have 4 cats. Don't assume A and B will stay as A and B and C and D as a second group. A and C and D are evidently starting to get a long but the final dynamic might be A and C and B and D and that could change daily.

After lots of cat issues Milo, Jessie, Archie and Lucy were 4 cats. Milo and Archie friendly. Jessie attacked the others and Lucy wanted out. Milo, Archie, Charlie and Lucy. Milo and Archie friends, Charlie tried to befriend Lucy but Lucy wanted out. Exit Lucy who's doing super at our close friends house as a solo cat. Milo and Archie the buddies and Charlie loner cat... then one day Milo and Charlie best buddies and Archie left out.

We always wanted 4 cats so prayed (really we did) about it and the same day a cat was available right age and had a background like Lucy's where he was being attacked by the big cat and needed rehoming. I know maybe a co-incidence but still having spayed Lucy, looked after her and given her away for her sake we figured this boy was either meant to be or we could at least rehabilitate and find him a better home. Almost all our cats have been someone else's "problem cat". So far its early days but the new dynamic I see is that Milo and Archie are buddies again and Charlie and new boy Ollie are now a pair!

 

[LuPiZeCo]

Thanks everyone

Will try calming music, good idea!

Both girls are spayed yes and the boys are just coming up to 4 months and will be neutered around 6 months, as suggested by the vet.

I think what happened with the sleeping one was he was asleep on the back of the sofa, and she jumped up and walked along it and just saw him there. She didn’t appear to seek him out specifically to do it.

She seems to be doing okay. When we introduced our second girl, she reacted similarly toward us as she is now. So she’s not angry at us but she’s a bit less cuddly, and she took a few months to get back to her old self before. Other than that, she is eating, playing and using the tray. She sleeps in the crook of my arm at night so I don’t think she’s too mad at me! Her body language looks okay to me, she doesn’t hide from them or leave the room. She’s not puffed, she’s just usually sitting watching them!

They are funny girls. They have phases of sleeping together everyday then not at all for months.. they play and groom each other so I think they like each other? We are making sure the boys are shut away for periods of the day so the girls can be together and they’re still happy to play together.

She is so similar to one of the kittens I know they will get on well when she can let herself. She is very active and hyper and my other girl is the opposite. One of the kittens wants to play all day and I know that she will love it when she’s calm!

I understand about the dynamics and was expecting it because of the boys personalities. Each of the boys are like one of the girls - one more silly and playful and one more reserved and graceful, so I was thinking they would all complement each other..

 

[Danglos]

Sounds like it's going really well! Especially as you are on top of dynamics and the personalities line up perfectly. We had to learn the hard way so glad you're making progress quickly, steadily and it sounds like the behaviour is just defensive or testing the waters.

 

[1 bruce 1]

I think this sounds like an introduction of two kittens with two adult females that's pretty textbook. Our males generally accept new cats much quicker than the girls do. The last little kitten we brought home was sick and spent a lot of time in a big dog cage for confinement. Our top girl Queenie would make a point to dart at the cage, hiss, and smack it every time she walked by.
If the adult cats aren't staring, stalking, and attacking (making the kittens scream or pulling out fur or drawing blood), a hiss and a single smack is pretty standard stuff. 4 months is a baby kitten to us, but to an adult cat, it's an older kitten that's rapidly growing into a young adult and is old enough to learn who was there first.
I think you got this

 

[She's a witch]

agree, you're doing great, and they're doing great given the circumstances, give it some time and patience and they will all accept their new situation. I'll repeat what already been said, for reassurance: hissing, growling, occasional swatting are to be expected.

 

[LuPiZeCo]

Good point about the age! That makes a lot of sense.

We don’t seem to be making much progress, no worse but no better. I am mindful of how long to carry on this way until we decide to ourselves it’s not working? I really don’t want to upset my girl permanently..

 

[She's a witch]

Is she really that upset, you think, that it prompts you to think about giving up?

You never know with cats. Some introductions are easy, most take time, much more than 3 weeks. In some cases the end result is totally different from what you expected. They may never be best friends, and even if you see the similarities in their personalities, they may not end up being play buddies, or at least not the way you envisaged. In my opinion, it's better not to have set expectations on how their relations may look like. Of course you don't want them to fight and have lots of tensions between them, but between that and being bff it's a spectrum where they can happily live together. So I'd give it a time and patience and observe how they get to know each other

 

[LuPiZeCo]

No, I don’t think she is, at least not yet. I am pretty anxious in general about all the cats and them being happy so find it quite to look at it objectively!

I know I definitely shouldn’t have had expectations. I spent a ton of time looking at pictures and talking to owners that are the same breed as her (Burmese) and they all have multiple cats in piles and I hoped for that..!

 

[She's a witch]

If you’re anxious around this introduction, they can get anxious too, as feeling your anxiety, they can think there’s a reason to be anxious so try to be as relaxed as possible around them. It’s a perfect exercise on how not to get stressed by your own thoughts. You’re doing more than ok with them, just give it time!

 

[LuPiZeCo]

Hi everyone, I’ve finally managed to get a video of the grumpy one reacting to the kittens. Please excuse it being on my counter, it’s very hard to get videos as it happens so quick. Probably up to 10 times a day, then she gets over it. Thoughts?

The one with the lighter coloured kitten, the smack and growl happens at the very beginning. Hard to spot!

 

[duncanmac]

That's nothing to worry about. Just the older cat putting the kitten in his place: just a swat or two and some noise. Notice how the cat didn't chase either kitten? The light coloured kitten wanted to get away more, but neither kitten ran away.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I agree with D duncanmac . Luna is telling them who is boss. Luna didn't even pursue the one who didn't back off from her, so unless she loses patience over time, it wouldn't seem she is going to fight them.

If Luna spends a fair amount of time on the counter, she could also be a bit unhappy that they are invading what she considers to be her space. I think you said Luna's sister gets along well with the two boys, yes? Does Luna and her sister still get along as well?

It might be time to find a way for them to start interacting with each other through play that you initiate - up to and including treats. You want Luna to get over being too territorial, but probably just because of her personality, it is going to take a bit more time - assuming the rests of the cats get along, and Luna's sister still likes to spend time with Luna too.

 

[LuPiZeCo]

She has never chased them after a swat. Last night all four cats were playing, chasing, bundling and no noise, everyone taking it in turns, so I don’t know why she’s still doing the grumbling!

Yes the girls are still getting on fine, still playing together. Pix likes them but she’s not shunning Luna in the process luckily. Although yesterday I was thinking, the girls used to sleep together a lot but they don’t really do that anymore, even before the boys. What could that mean?

It’s tricky because Luna won’t play around other cats, she never has. We do try to do treats all together if we can, but I don’t know what else we can do

 

[duncanmac]

We recently introduced a 4 month old kitten to our 2 2-year-old boys. Huge size discrepency - the kitten is 11 months old now and 1/2 the size of the boys.

Every once in a while, one boy will randomly hiss at the kitten. They still play and chase each other and generally get along, there's just a hiss here and there.

 

[FeebysOwner]

She has never chased them after a swat. Last night all four cats were playing, chasing, bundling and no noise, everyone taking it in turns, so I don’t know why she’s still doing the grumbling!

For whatever reason - possibly personality related - Luna is just not yet that thrilled with their presence. But, I have to believe with more time, the swatting will stop, and if nothing else be replaced by ignoring them. (I hope not.) That is why I asked about Pix and Luna's relationship...

Yes the girls are still getting on fine, still playing together. Pix likes them but she’s not shunning Luna in the process luckily. Although yesterday I was thinking, the girls used to sleep together a lot but they don’t really do that anymore, even before the boys. What could that mean?

…because if Pix is more accepting of the boys and enjoys her interaction with them, she might just not be as close with Luna and Luna resents the intrusion the boys have caused with her relationship with Pix. Who of the two girls is the one who sort of stopped sleeping with the other? I am not sure why, if this started before the boys arrived. Maybe make sure there is plenty play time - or if Luna was never much about playing with Pix even before the boys - attention/cuddle time directed by you, with both girls involved.

t’s tricky because Luna won’t play around other cats, she never has. We do try to do treats all together if we can, but I don’t know what else we can do

If Luna never was the playing type, then there is probably not much you can do to get her to play-interact more with any of them. I guess just let Luna observe - and get involved when she wants - but, still give her treats along with others even if she doesn't play. I just think she is having a harder time adjusting to the new family dynamics. And, so whatever level of involvement you can give her to show she still 'rates' in the family (security about her standing), so be it. She can get treats just for hanging around and watching!!

Maybe give Luna some extra one-on-one attention along the way through this process??

 

[LuPiZeCo]

Pix is more accepting in that she will let them cuddle with her and she is far less grumbly, though she will tell them off if they get too rowdy understandably. She doesn’t actively seek them out, so I hope Luna doesn’t feel like she’s left out.

I think Pixie is the one that sort of stopped the sleeping together. Luna will try and Pixie doesn’t always want her in there, so I had hoped Luna would find a snuggle buddy in the boys because she is actually the more cat orientated one. Its thrown me honestly as I thought it would be Pixie with the problem! The not sleeping together as often happened when they got to about a year and they are 19months. I always assumed it was because their preferred bed got too small, and neither of them like to just sleep on the sofa or bed so they never had anywhere big enough. They only like covered beds and it’s impossible to find one big enough!

She will play alone, but I think she finds it hard to join in if other cats are around because they are more overbearing with the toys. They all like to rough and tumble together, so I thought/hoped it was a good thing.

Luna sleeps spooning me every night and Pixie sleeps behind my knees, and we shut the boys away because I think that time for them is important.

Luna took about 6 months to start being cuddly again with us after Pixie, so I was expecting her to be a bit off with us anyway. I am trying my best to love bomb her but she isn’t having it!

That’s a lot of information, sorry! I just want to give as clear a picture as I can. This thread is helping me so much, I’ve found the whole thing incredibly stressful and guilt inducing so I’m grateful to have somewhere to vent!