Are My Cats Playing, Or Is This Going To Be A Problem?

[Sketchyeh]

Hi there guys,

My resident cat (Krueger) used to be in somewhat of an abusive relationship with my ex's cat (female cat, older than he was). She would chase him aggressively throughout the house, and it would often lead to him hiding and/or meowing almost obsessively in a high pitched, anxious manner.

Now he has been alone for about 4 months, and I decided to get him a little brother (2-month-old Finn). I live in a small space so the whole "keeping them separate" thing only would work half the time, and since I'm home all week I thought perhaps it would be alright if I keep them mostly out in the same spaces together as long as I'm watching them. I brought him home two days ago, kept them separate the first night, and have been letting them interact while supervised since.

Here is the issue:
My cat has done okay with friend's kittens in the past, and he is generally a very easy-going, friendly cat. However, I am afraid he may have picked up some bad habits from my ex's cat, because he has started to chase the kitten, sometimes in what I THINK is playful, and more recently in a very fast and seemingly aggressive way, tail puffing up, the whole bit. No yowling, no growling, and very minimal hissing (usually on the kitten's part when he gets cornered).
I did catch little Finn chasing him back a few times, and they don't seem to be hurting each other, but I'm afraid that my cat will bully my much smaller little guy. He can play rough sometimes. That being said, he has also spent his entire life up until this point with a guinea pig that he would chase and pounce on (never EVER seriously, always a mock-pounce sort of thing. Never landed on her or hurt her). So my question is: is it okay to let them continue doing this as they are, or should I stop them when Krueger chases him out of a room?

More information:
-They will sleep on the same bed, with or without me, pretty close to each other but not snuggling or touching.

-Finn does have a safe place to hide if he needs to, and he seems to try to play with my bigger boy quite a bit, usually leading to either Krueger running off, hissing, or very rarely giving him a swat. Again, he has yet to be hurt.

-No issue with peeing or marking territories; no food-dish-blocking (though they do eat out of each other's dishes); and very rare growling (almost always from the kitten).

-Krueger DOES tend to either follow the kitten around meowing in a similar, high pitched, sort of concerned or inquisitive, maybe even excessive, meow. What does this mean

 

[Desertmouse]

Well my first instinct is to say they are playing. That said, have you checked Finn after they played for any injuries? It doesn’t sound like they are fighting but sometimes when one cat is larger and strong they can give the smaller one a limp or whatnot without meaning to. Because of that I think in your place I would keep them in different rooms while you aren’t home. Just make sure they both have a litter box and water and some toys.

By the way, you are very brave, I think I would have a heart attack if I saw my cat pounce on a guinea pig . He sure sounds like he has a fun personality

 

[Sketchyeh]

It seems that way to me as well, but I've never had a kitten this small before so I don't know! lol
So far, no injuries, however just a few minutes ago I was holding Finn so Krueger could give him some good sniffs, and he started to give him little licks. So I think he's coming around; considering I just brought the baby home two days ago, he's doing a lot better than I thought he would!

Oh yeah! It definitely gave us a fright the first time he did it, but he's been around them his whole life. Plus, we have a cat-sized dog that keeps a really good watch over the pigs, so whenever Krueger would charge across the lawn to "attack" one, the dog would instantly be chasing him off to protect his little pigs. Very cute trio, they are! haha

 

[duckpond]

Sounds like they are playing, and becoming friends It is scary with the one being so much smaller, but as long as the kitten does not seem scared, or hiding, afraid to come out and eat or use the litter box i think its fine. No blood or flying fur. My adult males still play this way. They are big boys and sometimes they get really rough, but they both seem to really enjoy it. The two girls will not put up with that kind of behavior from them The girls rule, but the boys sure have fun

 

[Sketchyeh]

Excellent to hear! I'm glad that this is normal. I'm also sure they are establishing who is the dominant one, so I try to not intervene too much. The kitten seems to run away a lot more from him now anyway so I hope that things will be better as he grows

 

[Desertmouse]

Aww that is so cute! You should try and catch the three of them on video, you will be the hit of every party you go to .

Licking is definitely a good sign! Be aware that you might come across Krueger biting Finn on the neck in a way that seems a bit between soft and hard, or the two of them playing rough with Krueger coming out “on top” so to speak. This is normal and a way of showing that he’s the top cat (or for that matter it might Finn who does it to Krueger to be top cat). I remember when it happened back when I had two cats it scared me to death. Hopefully though it won’t happen until little Finn grows up a bit more and is more Krueger’s size.

 

[duckpond]

Excellent to hear! I'm glad that this is normal. I'm also sure they are establishing who is the dominant one, so I try to not intervene too much. The kitten seems to run away a lot more from him now anyway so I hope that things will be better as he grows

I think it is normally better to let the cats work it out themselves if possible. I bet they will be best buddies some day. post photos of them when you get time.

 

[Kieka]

Link followed Rocket around every moment he could for the first few months I had her. I think it was more waiting for her to want to play and curious about the newcomer. It sounds like things are going pretty well with your cats and I wouldn't worry. As long as the baby doesn't seem overly stressed or skittish around the older one they are likely just working things out. The only part that I find somewhat worrisome is the comment about puffy tail, but I think Rocket did that a little when she was really little out of reflex when Link startled her but immediately relaxed.

Here are my two playing if it helps any. Link is the bigger one on top (13 pounds) while Rocket is the smaller one laying on the bed (8 pounds).
View media item 420658

 

[Desertmouse]

Link followed Rocket around every moment he could for the first few months I had her. I think it was more waiting for her to want to play and curious about the newcomer. It sounds like things are going pretty well with your cats and I wouldn't worry. As long as the baby doesn't seem overly stressed or skittish around the older one they are likely just working things out. The only part that I find somewhat worrisome is the comment about puffy tail, but I think Rocket did that a little when she was really little out of reflex when Link startled her but immediately relaxed.

Here are my two playing if it helps any. Link is the bigger one on top (13 pounds) while Rocket is the smaller one laying on the bed (8 pounds).
View media item 420658

For the record, your cats are so beautiful

 

[Sketchyeh]

Link followed Rocket around every moment he could for the first few months I had her. I think it was more waiting for her to want to play and curious about the newcomer. It sounds like things are going pretty well with your cats and I wouldn't worry. As long as the baby doesn't seem overly stressed or skittish around the older one they are likely just working things out. The only part that I find somewhat worrisome is the comment about puffy tail, but I think Rocket did that a little when she was really little out of reflex when Link startled her but immediately relaxed.

View media item 420658

Yeah, I was watching and it doesn't seem like it was SUPER puffed out, but definitely puffy a little. He also does that I think when he gets over-excited or over-stimulated, as Krueger will usually be purring up a storm and all tail-fluffed when I see him when I get home from work. He's a huge momma's boy!

btw, your chocolate siamese you have there looks EXACTLY like my cat growing up, Chocolate! He was a lovely boy.

 

[Sketchyeh]

Also, an update about the boys:
They have napped on the bed the past couple days together, but today they were sleeping side by side (almost touching), and when I moved Krueger's tail to let Finn smell it, he started grooming it. Krueger has also given Finn a few licks on his rump here and there, and just a few minutes ago Finn went to step on a sleepy (but awake) Krueger, and he just let him do it. I definitely think they're going to be good friends


This, by the way, is Finn! Krueger is my profile picture

 

[jen]

I would say playing. Like someone mentioned check the kitten for any small wounds but they can get loud and active in their playing and it may seem really rough but cats need to learn boundaries and the older cat will teach the younger one. THEY NEED TO DO THIS TO COEXIST. Theyhave to establish boundaries and to do this they communicate by growling, hissing, meowing, puffing up. This is OK! Let it happen. Keep a blanket handy or a can to shake and make a loud noise if you get concerned or they take it really far and one needs a break. But let them do this and learn from each other. This is important.

 

[danteshuman]

I have been surprised many times how often cats instinctively regulate their behavior for kittens. I wouldn't let them be together alone until 3-4 months because I'm a huge worry wart. That said it sounds like your boys are getting along great!
Much better than how Salem 'greeted' my punk Dante! (Who I got at 6?8? weeks.) He wrapped his entire mouth around Dante's neck slowly and gently (at which point I freaked & over reacted!) In retrospect maybe he was trying to tell me the kitten was evil? (Or he smellled the upstairs neighbor's cat since they had the kitten for a day?) Now Dante has bugged the snot out of Salem for 11 years But I have had a neutered male cat let a kitten pretend to nurse off of him & mom-ied both kittens. The other 2 neutered male cats ignored the kittens until they were around 3 months and then started inter-acting & playing with them. Mind you these were bottle fed wee baby kittens and no one injured the kittens in any way, or even hissed at them. My punk Dante was biting Salem between the shoulder blades, with his little legs dangling over Salem's back ... and Salem was just walking around slowly, giving me a 'mom help me look!' a month after I got Dante.

 

[Sketchyeh]

Update:
Today and yesterday, Krueger has started to get a little tougher with him. I've caught him several times today alone grabbing him and pinning him down, and biting him hard enough that the baby cries out. His ears are pinned right back when he does that. I always stop it because obviously this kitten is way too little to have that happen and I think it's too much. But a second after Krueger leaves him alone, the kitten is off tottering around and playing, even sometimes rubbing against Krueger. I have to leave them home alone tomorrow. Should I be afraid?


Also!
The atory about Dante and Salem is crazy! Hahaha those guys definitely sound like a couple of sweeties though

 

[jen]

I wouldnt worry. He is putting the kitten in its place. Teaching the kitten who is boss. I wouldn't intervene unless there is bloodshed.

 

[danteshuman]

Is he really biting him hard is your wee kitten screaming !mom! because he is losing? I would keep them separate while you are at work. I would also try not running to the rescue & see what happens? I don't think he is really hurting him.

My punk Dante well he can be a bully. I built up Salem's self esteem but *sigh* Salem figured out I came running if he growls. So he now growls really loud (waking me up sometimes!) Then one day I see Salem on one of Dante's spot growling at Dante, as Dante eyes up the bottom of the bed where he always sleeps. Cats are 100% smart enough to manipulate their humans and to use their humans for extra muscle to get their way! Now when I hear growling I tell them both to knock it off and re-direct my punk with play.

 

[danteshuman]

You can also get a tupperware storage container, put a blanket on the bottom, then cut a hole small enough for only your wee kitten to get in. Then place the hiding spot in the room the kitten is in the most. Giving him a safe spot. Then after a week of knowing where safe is, you could try leaving them alone. Again I'm a big worrier so I wouldn't do it until the kitten was bigger, more of an even match.

 

[Sketchyeh]

I tried keeping them seperate today, but the baby was losing his mind within ten minutes of being in the bedroom, so I decided I'd just leave them and hope for the best. Both were alive when I returned home, sleeping on the bed together.

However, again, I catch Krueger bullying him. It seems that every time he gets the chance to step over him, he grabs him. Ears pinned flat back, kicking and biting hard (which is very hard, believe me. I've been on the receiving end of a fair amount of nasty bites. Never enough to draw blood but I'm talking OW). Kitty doesn't just squeak now, he cries. Like, I've looked it up on YouTube and the closest noise I can find is caterwauling. But then a few minutes later he's playing with his tail or rubbing up against him. Krueger even tried to groom him today, and they were both sleeping on my lap but when the baby tried to suckle from him he took off.

He was born February 4 so he's almost ten weeks, and he's got a fair set of claws and teeth but I'm still STRESSED
I have let it go on as long as I can but sometimes it looks like Krueger will never let him go. The most recent squabble, he was actually biting his neck. What the hell??

 

[Desertmouse]

I tried keeping them seperate today, but the baby was losing his mind within ten minutes of being in the bedroom, so I decided I'd just leave them and hope for the best. Both were alive when I returned home, sleeping on the bed together.

However, again, I catch Krueger bullying him. It seems that every time he gets the chance to step over him, he grabs him. Ears pinned flat back, kicking and biting hard (which is very hard, believe me. I've been on the receiving end of a fair amount of nasty bites. Never enough to draw blood but I'm talking OW). Kitty doesn't just squeak now, he cries. Like, I've looked it up on YouTube and the closest noise I can find is caterwauling. But then a few minutes later he's playing with his tail or rubbing up against him. Krueger even tried to groom him today, and they were both sleeping on my lap but when the baby tried to suckle from him he took off.

He was born February 4 so he's almost ten weeks, and he's got a fair set of claws and teeth but I'm still STRESSED
I have let it go on as long as I can but sometimes it looks like Krueger will never let him go. The most recent squabble, he was actually biting his neck. What the hell??

Honestly it still sounds like Krueger is just teaching him who is boss. From what I’ve seen the neck is a common spot to bite when one cat is trying to exert their dominance. But I’m hoping someone with more experience on this will give their opinion. I do know it’s pretty common for kittens to sound like their dying when it’s no where near that bad (I think this is because as kittens they are teaching each other limits?).

I think things sound like they are going well all in all though!

 

[Sketchyeh]

Ahhh thank you!
I'm a total worry wart. Finn is just super skinny and small (I think he could be underweight, I can feel his spine and ribs) so I'm extra concerned. I just don't want Krueger to kill him lol