Anti-vax?

[Ninipow13]

Just wondering if there are cat owners that are anti vaccination and/or anti spay-neuter?
Not trying to start a debate. I really would just like to hear from those that are against it?
I’ve fixed and vaxxed my other cats but I can’t help but fight with this internally.
I would NEVER get my tubes tied or have my husband get a vasectomy, then why is it fair to do this to my cats? I feel like I am stealing something important from them. Their chance to be a mom and nurse their baby kittens.
Are kittens really overpopulating because it took us quite some time to find our new kittens. Went to several shelters a few times but they were half empty. Seemed like there was more demand than offer. Also, I would hate to have our cats race die out eventually because we want to spay and neuter every cat we see.
We personally don’t vaccinate so for the same reasons I don’t want to inject my baby kittens with poison either. I understand the possible benefit, especially if they ever were to go outside (it’s not in the plan) but how common are these things we vaccinate them for? Or are the side effects more common?
Again, not trying to start a debate and I don’t need anyone here pointing fingers. Instead if you have information to share, please do so.

 

[EmersonandEvie]

Disclaimer: I am neither. All of my animals are fixed and vaccinated. I am not a veterinary professional and make no claims as such.

I'll start with fixing.
1. Overpopulation. Yes, it is a very real thing, especially in rural areas where people have a lot of barn cats. Where do you live? Our local rescue here (middle Georgia, USA) has been consistently filled to overflow. I'm talking upwards of 75 cats and kittens. That is just one rescue, not the state/county run shelters, in one small part of Georgia.
2. Offspring. You absolutely cannot compare humans and cats when it comes to offspring. Not only can a cat sexually mature as young as 5 to 6 months, they can crank out multiple litters of multiple kittens in a year, compared to a maximum of 2 per year of a human (assuming one fetus. Twins, triplets, etc. do happen but the overwhelming average is 1 child per pregnancy). The potential for one cat's kitten to then have their own kittens. to then have their own kittens...it's exponential. Additionally, a 5 month old cat is still very much a baby and having litters that young jeopardizes her own survival in addition to her kittens. It would be like a 9 year old human giving birth. Their bodies are simply too small and immature.
3. Cancer. Spaying or neutering your animal greatly reduces the risk of testicular and uterine/ovarian cancers. Anecdote, thought not cancer: my husband's family refuses to fix their animals. Both of their female cats have nearly died from uterine infections. What should have been about $150 total for two spays turned into thousands of dollars due to emergency vet care, antibiotics and emergency spays.
4. Sanitation. An unneutered cat has a higher potential to spray. Spray smells gross and can ruin furniture and an entire house if not kept in check. An unsprayed female still has a monthly period and will bleed ("in heat"). She will also scream. And roll. And yowl. Heat is a very loud and messy process.
5. Cats as a species dying out. Don't worry about it...it will literally never happen.

Vaccination.
I could go off on a tangent about this, but I won't. Vaccinate your animals (and children). I know it seems like a lot at once, but these vaccines are beyond important. Any potential side effects (lethargy for a day or so, fever, decreased appetite) are nothing compared to a cat dying a slow and painful death. As far as being poison...your cats are likely to ingest/come into contact with thigs throughout their life that are much more dangerous than a shot.
1. Feline Leukemia. I'm sure you will find many a member here that has lost a cat to that. It's a horrible, slow process. All it takes is inside kitty getting out once and getting a scratch from an infected cat. It happens. Don't be a statistic. You have the means to protect your animal. Why would you throw that away?
2. Rabies. This is one I can get behind for over-vaccinating due to its annual nature. Rabies is required BY LAW. You can be fined if authorities find out that your animal is not protected against rabies, which is much more common in wild animals than people realize (especially skunks and bats). However, there is a 3 year vaccine that can be given after the initial 1 year dosage. I have done this for my older cats, and at Dexter's next yearly appointment, he too will receive a 3 year vaccine.

The veterinary profession exists for a reason. Trust the science and research that has gone into making sure your animals can live long, healthy lives.

 

[EmersonandEvie]

I would also like to add this scenario: Your cat is not vaccinated against rabies. Your cat gets out. She is scared and just wants to go home. A kind stranger sees your post/flyer/whatever about her being lost and stumbles across her. He tries to pick her up, and in fear, she bites him, breaking the skin. Now you have someone just trying to help that was bitten by an unvaccinated cat that may have rabies and be nonsymptomatic. Chances are your cat will have to be euthanized because she is not up to date on her rabies shot and there is no way to tell whether a cat has rabies without a brain necropsy. By not vaccinating your cat, you have just sentenced her to death. It's a sad story, but it does happen.

 

[kittyluv387]

If you're not going to provide a reproductive/sexual life for your cat then it's only fair to fix them instead of letting them go on being frustrated. Females can get uterine infection which is absolutely horrendous if they go through a lot of heat cycles without being bred. And really you shouldn't be breeding them because countless cats die on the streets and in overcrowded shelters every day!! It's extremely irresponsible to do so unless you're a responsible breeder drying to preserve a pedigree. In general cats dying out as a race isn't something to worry about. They need population control as there are not enough homes and resources to care for the ones that exist. You sound a little naive. I am against over vaccination but I am not an anti vaxxer. Both people and animals do need vaccinations. If people didn't get vaccinations you'd have a very large possibility of being dead already. Same thing with many cats. Sure our indoor cats are safer but they should still be initially vaccinated for their safety. Shit happens sometimes.

 

[Graceful-Lily]

I'm not anti-anything really. Felix is fixed. The only thing is that he hasn't been vaccinated since he was neutered over 7 years ago. I don't know why. We just never gave it a second thought and the vet never pushed for it. He'll probably be vaccinated soon, I just don't know when. Maybe when we move and he goes for his dental. I always feel as if I'll be stoned to death by other pet owners for not vaccinating him but I honestly didn't purposefully set out to not have him vaccinated.

 

[Ninipow13]

Naive? Far from it. I'm well educated when it comes to the vaccines people give to their children and I know why I don't vax my children. However, when it comes to pets, I have never studied the different diseases and the vaccines and side effects. I am sure they work similar as human vaccines, but just trying to learn more about them so we can make an educated decision about their vaccines. Their lives are important enough for us for me to research a vaccine before injecting it into their bodies. I'm not a big fan of Big man Pharma and I am very hesitant to fall for any of his traps. I would say those that are quick to vaccinate (without any research of their own) are those that are naive.

 

[Ninipow13]

If you're not going to provide a reproductive/sexual life for your cat then it's only fair to fix them instead of letting them go on being frustrated. Females can get uterine infection which is absolutely horrendous if they go through a lot of heat cycles without being bred. And really you shouldn't be breeding them because countless cats die on the streets and in overcrowded shelters every day!! It's extremely irresponsible to do so unless you're a responsible breeder drying to preserve a pedigree. In general cats dying out as a race isn't something to worry about. They need population control as there are not enough homes and resources to care for the ones that exist. You sound a little naive. I am against over vaccination but I am not an anti vaxxer. Both people and animals do need vaccinations. If people didn't get vaccinations you'd have a very large possibility of being dead already. Same thing with many cats. Sure our indoor cats are safer but they should still be initially vaccinated for their safety. Shit happens sometimes.

I thought I had quoted you when I posted the post above. But it was a response to you.

 

[kittyluv387]

The naive comment was referring to about not knowing about the countless innocent cats dying every day on the streets and in overcrowded shelters. But I'll say it's possible you live in a very remote and sheltered region. I'm really more speechless about you being an anti-vaxxer. The reason your children are hopefully somewhat safe is because almost everyone else got vaccinated. Please don't bring your children around babies and other young children who haven't had a chance to get all their vaccinations yet.

 

[EmersonandEvie]

I'm not anti-anything really. Felix is fixed. The only thing is that he hasn't been vaccinated since he was neutered over 7 years ago. I don't know why. We just never gave it a second thought and the vet never pushed for it. He'll probably be vaccinated soon, I just don't know when. Maybe when we move and he goes for his dental. I always feel as if I'll be stoned to death by other pet owners for not vaccinating him but I honestly didn't purposefully set out to not have him vaccinated.

I'm just curious...kittens have shots and boosters that they get between months..3 and 5, I believe? They also get fixed around that age. After that, indoor cats typically just get an annual or 3 year rabies vaccine (I think outdoor cats are given leukemia boosters and a few others). So when you say he hasn't been vaccinated since he was fixed, do you mean for anything at all? Has he been back to the vet between now and then for any reason? I find it very, very odd that your vet wouldn't have pushed for rabies. Some vets won't even see animals if they don't have a vaccine record. It's also illegal in most places.

 

[amethyst]

As others have said, I'm not anti-vaccination I'm anti over vaccination. More and more research is coming out that the vaccines stay in the system for much longer then a year, so yearly vaccinations do more harm then good. I also select what I vaccinate for, there are a lot of new vaccines out now that the odds are pretty slim my animals will ever come in contact with. A better idea then blindly following what the vet says is to get the relevant vaccinations for your area. Then rather then just going ahead with the booster shots, do a blood test at their next check up to see if they need a booster yet or not.

As for spaying and neutering, it really isn't the same as comparing humans. I'm pretty sure when you or your husband are "in the mood" you don't just leave home and sleep with anyone and everyone willing, lol (I could be wrong though, some cultures are weird to me). Humans also don't start breeding as soon as they go through puberty (at least in most cultures), and most women go through menopause, cats don't.

Cats going extinct is definitely not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future. I don't know what part of the world you live in, but in most areas like North America, Europe, and Asia cat over population is a real problem. On average about a million cats are euthanized in shelters in the US alone each year because their aren't enough homes or they are deemed unadoptable. People want kittens, so in some areas adult cats are euthanized after as little as a week or two to make room for younger cats. Also many, like feral cats, are deemed unadoptable by most shelters so they are euthanized if they end up in one. Most of those feral cats are the result of people deciding they should let their cats mate, but have no plan for the kittens produced. They literally dump them either on the street or drive out into the countryside to dump on farmland, and they then reproduce creating feral born cats.

One case I dealt with was a couple female cats were dumped on my property, one had kittens under the house and ended up getting hit and killed on the road when they were just a few weeks old. When I called around to vets offices to get the kittens checked out, before I could say I was keeping them, I was told they don't take orphaned kittens but they could put them down for me.

In my area the local no-kill shelters have waiting lists for people to bring in cats because they are overflowing. One, that has a physical location and foster homes, I think currently has around 150 cats and kittens, and another rescue, which is just foster homes, has over 40. The pound (where animal control take animals) keep the animals for 5-10 days, and euthanize if they aren't adopted or taken in by a rescue.

 

[kittyluv387]

amethyst Agreed. That's why I pay a little more for the 3 year rabies vaccine even though it's the same as the 1 year. My cats also get 3 year FVCRP.

 

[Graceful-Lily]

I'm just curious...kittens have shots and boosters that they get between months..3 and 5, I believe? They also get fixed around that age. After that, indoor cats typically just get an annual or 3 year rabies vaccine (I think outdoor cats are given leukemia boosters and a few others). So when you say he hasn't been vaccinated since he was fixed, do you mean for anything at all? Has he been back to the vet between now and then for any reason? I find it very, very odd that your vet wouldn't have pushed for rabies. Some vets won't even see animals if they don't have a vaccine record. It's also illegal in most places.

Nope, he hasn't been vaccinated for anything at all since then. He's been sick a lot these past few years and every time I go and ask, they say it would probably be better to not vaccinate him for whatever procedure is being done or whatever ailment he had at the time. For example, his dental, they told me they won't vaccinate him for that. He didn't have to be vaccinated before his i-131 beforehand, they actually advised against it. He's been in and out of the clinic so many times so I don't know. He likes going out in the summer so once his overall health is stabilized, I'll have him vaccinated.

 

[jen]

The other point for spaying and neutering is this... Mating for the female cat is EXTREMELY painful. The male has a barbed penis. So what goes in smoothly, tears her up on the way out. There is a reason they scream during it. That ALONE makes me never want my female cats to go through mating.

But aside from the extreme pain. It isn't like they are happily going through life looking for their "soulmate" and then having and raising children together such as people do. The females are basically raped by any and all male cats who feel like taking advantage. Continuously. It is all instinct. There is no love, decisions, or family aspect to it.

 

[stephanietx]

All of my cats are spayed/neuter. I'm very PRO spay/neuter as it's beneficial all the way around. I'm not a fan of vaccines for indoor only kitties after they've had their kitten shots and 1st rabies shot.

*I am pro-vaccines for outdoor kitties and for indoor kitties who are not in a foster situation or who travel.

 

[Willowy]

Not sure how to answer that. Vaccines aren't poison. Vaccines aren't live viruses (they are killed or modified-live). Animal diseases are more deadly than what Americans are vaccinated for. Measles probably won't kill most people who get it, though it can cause long-term issues. But parvovirus/panleukopenia WILL kill your pet. Survivors are rare. Rabies vaccination is a huge success story. If you want to see what happens when dogs aren't vaccinated against rabies, go to rural Africa or Southeast Asia.

Yes, there are pet anti-vaxxers. The success of their pet keeping varies. Distemper is rare because of vaccination, but parvo is still pretty common. If you live in the Southern states an unvaccinated dog will probably die of parvo. Cats are slightly safer if they're kept indoors, but it can still be tracked in. In cold Northern states it's a bit more of a gamble. I don't know anyone personally who has lost a pet to parvo/panleuk, but I know it has happened in the area. It's not an epidemic like in warm states though.

Now, I think that annual vaccination is unnecessary and excessive. But I do think puppies and kittens should get all their baby shots, and at least one booster as an adult. After that most pets have developed sufficient immunity to last many years. But there may be legal issues surrounding rabies vaccination. Not fun if you have a bite incident, or a bat found in the house.

There are quite a lot of anti spay/neuter dog people. But dogs have predictable heat periods and are easy to keep confined. Cats have very unpredictable heat periods, are induced ovulators so they can get pregnant even when heat isn't obvious, and are much better at slipping out and getting knocked up by a traveling tomcat.

And if you wish to let them breed freely, what are you going to do with 6000 kittens? If you're going to kill them, why is that better than spaying the mother? Particularly if you're avoiding spaying her because of health reasons. Being killed is a pretty big health problem! As for males, some people are willing to live with tomcat behaviors, but most aren't. If a tom is kept inside instead of running around impregnating every female cat, I have no problem with that. But please be honest with yourself about what you're willing to live with. It's not fair to dump the cat for his natural behaviors.

 

[Willowy]

Are kittens really overpopulating because it took us quite some time to find our new kittens.

What time of year was it? Kittens are highly seasonal. Sometimes there are ALL THE KITTENS and then a couple months later there are none. Unfortunately most people just want little kittens so the older ones that weren't already killed still won't get adopted.

 

[Ninipow13]

Not sure how to answer that. Vaccines aren't poison. Vaccines aren't live viruses (they are killed or modified-live). Animal diseases are more deadly than what Americans are vaccinated for. Measles probably won't kill most people who get it, though it can cause long-term issues. But parvovirus/panleukopenia WILL kill your pet. Survivors are rare. Rabies vaccination is a huge success story. If you want to see what happens when dogs aren't vaccinated against rabies, go to rural Africa or Southeast Asia.

Yes, there are pet anti-vaxxers. The success of their pet keeping varies. Distemper is rare because of vaccination, but parvo is still pretty common. If you live in the Southern states an unvaccinated dog will probably die of parvo. Cats are slightly safer if they're kept indoors, but it can still be tracked in. In cold Northern states it's a bit more of a gamble. I don't know anyone personally who has lost a pet to parvo/panleuk, but I know it has happened in the area. It's not an epidemic like in warm states though.

Now, I think that annual vaccination is unnecessary and excessive. But I do think puppies and kittens should get all their baby shots, and at least one booster as an adult. After that most pets have developed sufficient immunity to last many years. But there may be legal issues surrounding rabies vaccination. Not fun if you have a bite incident, or a bat found in the house.

There are quite a lot of anti spay/neuter dog people. But dogs have predictable heat periods and are easy to keep confined. Cats have very unpredictable heat periods, are induced ovulators so they can get pregnant even when heat isn't obvious, and are much better at slipping out and getting knocked up by a traveling tomcat.

And if you wish to let them breed freely, what are you going to do with 6000 kittens? If you're going to kill them, why is that better than spaying the mother? Particularly if you're avoiding spaying her because of health reasons. Being killed is a pretty big health problem! As for males, some people are willing to live with tomcat behaviors, but most aren't. If a tom is kept inside instead of running around impregnating every female cat, I have no problem with that. But please be honest with yourself about what you're willing to live with. It's not fair to dump the cat for his natural behaviors.

You answered it very well. I appreciate the breakdown you gave me.
As far as your last part. Never could or would I take the life of an animal (or pet let’s say). I’m very pro-life. But I understand the risks and the reasons why we spay/neuter. I’ve always fixed my pets in the past but it’s always been an internal struggle for me. If let’s say there would be an accidental litter, I would raise the kittens myself if I couldn’t find no safe homes for them. But honestly, I am sure I will have them fixed anyway.

 

[Willowy]

Well, yeah, because there are only so many litters you can keep . You have a dozen or more after 3 litters, and that's more than enough for most people!

 

[Ninipow13]

What time of year was it? Kittens are highly seasonal. Sometimes there are ALL THE KITTENS and then a couple months later there are none. Unfortunately most people just want little kittens so the older ones that weren't already killed still won't get adopted.

This was a few weeks back. The end of the last kitten season. I had gone to to the local shelter because someone told me that they were overpopulated but when I got there, half of the cages were empty so I confronted a worker and said, I thought you guys had so many cats and kittens but why does it look so empty there? She told me “oh I don’t know why people say that but it’s really not like that.”
And then our humane society denied us twice! Both for the most ridiculous reason. I really didn’t understand. They did had a few kittens but they also had a lot of people adopting both days. They were busy. But if you have cats or kittens that need homes, you don’t turn down someone that is willing to give them a safe and warm home. They were rude ah.
Also when I browse websites like craigslist, it’s more people looking to adopt a cat or kitten than people looking to rehome one! I was quiet shocked. Btw I am in Indiana.

 

[Willowy]

Huh, maybe they have a really good spay/neuter program going there. Around here the shelters are stacked full during kitten season. They haul out all the spare cages and put them in the hallways and everything. And the farmers "take care" of unwanted cats and kittens themselves .