Another Supplements question (well several actually...)

[vball91]

I have noticed that a lot of you use supplements, and they do make sense to me. I'm just not sure how to integrate them during the transition to raw.

I have ordered Wysong's Call of the Wild (which should arrive tomorrow, hooray), which I'm going to be using during the transition on her all-meat meals until I can introduce the proper bone and organ ratios. I have several questions about this:

1. When I start introducing bone and organs, do I still use COTW on all of her meat meals still? I guess I'm worried about over-supplementing at that point (mostly calcium from the additional bone).

2. While I'm using COTW, do I still need to add probiotics, enzymes, and omega-3s/Vit. D? I know COTW has some of these, but it's not clear how much. Should I just wait until fully transitioned to add the others?

3. Speaking of omega-3s, my eggs say they contain 115mg of omega-3s, but there's no breakdown between EPA and DHA. Do I include this as part of the omega-3 supplementation, and if so, how? I'm actually not sure how to count egg yolks in her diet. Would I add the weight of the egg yolk to the meat portion? Or just consider it a nutritious snack and not worry about how it fits?

4. Still on omega-3s, I've heard of so many issues with fish oil, mostly how quickly and easily it can go rancid, and how oxidized fish oil may actually be harmful. In addition, some fish oil supplements are mislabeled. Is anyone here a ConsumerLab.com member and has read the full report listed here? http://www.consumerlab.com/news/Rev...ga-3 Supplments by ConsumerLab.com/8_22_2012/

I'm sure I'm overthinking this whole process somewhat, but I do want to do this right. Thanks for any help/thoughts you can offer.

 

[ldg]

First of all, it's hard not to overthink it when first starting out! :lol3: I think we've all been there.

OK.

1. When I start introducing bone and organs, do I still use COTW on all of her meat meals still? I guess I'm worried about over-supplementing at that point (mostly calcium from the additional bone).

Long term, you wouldn't want to overlap COTW with organs, but short term it's OK. However, they will get too much calcium if you use COTW with bones. So what you may want to do is consider adding the organs first, and once those are introduced, giving small bone-in meals infrequently. When you're confident they'll be eating enough bone, then stop using the COTW. If I were transitioning to frankenprey from COTW supplemented meat, that's how I'd handle it. :nod:
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2. While I'm using COTW, do I still need to add probiotics, enzymes, and omega-3s/Vit. D? I know COTW has some of these, but it's not clear how much. Should I just wait until fully transitioned to add the others?

I use COTW frequently for one of my kitties, Lazlo. And he's also the only kitty to which I'm giving enzymes. I give him probiotics, enzymes, and krill oil daily. The Calciumhosphorus ratio in the COTW is high ( 1.7:1 ), but they've got something else in there that makes it easy to pass the stool anyway, and bulks it up a little bit. :dk: Lazlo does very well on it, actually (which is why I use it rather frequently for him). But it is definitely ... "deficient" in omega 3s without the addition of salmon or krill oil.
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3. Speaking of omega-3s, my eggs say they contain 115mg of omega-3s, but there's no breakdown between EPA and DHA. Do I include this as part of the omega-3 supplementation, and if so, how? I'm actually not sure how to count egg yolks in her diet. Would I add the weight of the egg yolk to the meat portion? Or just consider it a nutritious snack and not worry about how it fits?

Just consider it a nutritious snack and not worry about how it fits. It's important for the choline (and the omegas, vitamin D and other nutritious stuff!), so it should be included as part of the raw diet - but easiest to not worry about how it fits. It's included in almost all ground raw recipes, so even though it looks in frankenprey like it's fed as a "treat," it's just that it's fed separately.
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4. Still on omega-3s, I've heard of so many issues with fish oil, mostly how quickly and easily it can go rancid, and how oxidized fish oil may actually be harmful. In addition, some fish oil supplements are mislabeled. Is anyone here a ConsumerLab.com member and has read the full report

I haven't read the full report, and yes, there are issues with quality. The general guidelines are to buy an oil with a named fish, that helps ensure a level of quality. :nod: Buy capsules, not pumps, that also helps prevent oxidation without the use of preservatives. :nod: And buy from a known, quality manufacturer, and it shouldn't be an issue. I use Pure Alaska Omega ( http://www.alaskaproteinrecovery.com/salmonoil ) for the kitties to whom I give salmon oil, and I use NOW Neptune krill oil for the kitties that get krill oil.

 

[vball91]

Thanks Laurie. Your answers are very much in line with what I was thinking but I wanted to get a second opinion.

 

[ldg]

Yep, know that feeling. :lol3:

FYI, remember - with the COTW you're balancing each meal. So you can not use it at any bone-in meal - and the organs are only 5% of the diet, so most likely not fed with every meal. So it's pretty easy to manage, and not over-supplement. :nod:

 

[vball91]

Which one would you add first, the probiotics or salmon oil? I want to introduce one thing at a time so that I can tell if something's causing an issue.

 

[ldg]

I'd start with the probiotics. :nod: