Alnutrin with baby food meat - and freeze-dried liver?

[FeebysOwner]

Feeby's diet is supplemented with baby food meat (non-chicken) and I add EZ Complete to it. Not sure if she is tiring of the baby food meat or the EZComplete, but I thought I might try Alnutrin (Meat & Bone, with eggshell powder added) to see if the EZ is her issue. Since the jars are only the equivalent of 1 oz of meat and she eats one or two a day, I thought freeze-dried liver would be a better option than buying liver, because she will only need a small amount added.

What freeze-dried liver products would be best for this type of a set up?

Thanks!
(I didn't post this in the raw & homemade food forum, but maybe I should have?)

 

[lisahe]

In our experience, pretty much any freeze-dried liver product works for making cat food -- I buy whatever chicken liver is cheapest on Chewy. Sometimes I buy duck liver if it's not too expensive. The hardest part is weighing it since it's so light. Given how you've been using EZ, you may already have a scale. I ended up buying a tiny scale (a Taylor for about $20 from Walmart) to weigh liver and Alnutrin.

I hope you're able to make Alnutrin work for Feeby.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Thanks! EZComplete and the Raw Feeding for IBD Cats web site both helped me figure out how much EZ to use, so I have been able to do that with small teaspoons. That web site also provides measurement data for Alnutrin, so I hope I can figure it out without a scale - but I might find I can't when it comes to the liver.

 

[lisahe]

Thanks! EZComplete and the Raw Feeding for IBD Cats web site both helped me figure out how much EZ to use, so I have been able to do that with small teaspoons. That web site also provides measurement data for Alnutrin, so I hope I can figure it out without a scale - but I might find I can't when it comes to the liver.

It was the liver that put me over on buying the scale. Small measuring spoons worked surprisingly well for the Alnutrin but the liver's more difficult to quantify that way without crushing it. In the end, it was better and easier to buy the scale, particularly since I make food in varying batches. (It's a fairly large part of one cat's diet so I make a fair amount of food!)

 

[FeebysOwner]

Are you saying the freeze-dried liver is or is not easier to quantify if crushed? Wouldn't it be more logical to crush it anyway - at least for me, since I am not cooking up food, just adding supplements to the already 'cooked' baby food meat?

 

[lisahe]

Are you saying the freeze-dried liver is or is not easier to quantify if crushed? Wouldn't it be more logical to crush it anyway - at least for me, since I am not cooking up food, just adding supplements to the already 'cooked' baby food meat?

It's easier to quantify if crushed into powder.

I don't crush it, though, because the liver eventually goes through the food processor anyway.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Do you know if freeze-dried beef liver would suffice? I ask because EZ Complete contains chicken liver and I am wondering if this might what is turning Feeby off to it. She leans toward beef in her cat foods, so I thought this might be a better route to try at first.

Also, I gather any of these freeze-dried 'additives' are considered 'treats'? When looking for them I see they are labeled either as food or treats. The foods appear to state they are nutritionally complete, so I guess I need to buy those labeled as treats?

Thanks.

 

[lisahe]

Do you know if freeze-dried beef liver suffice? I ask because EZ Complete contains chicken liver and I am wondering if this might what is turning Feeby off to it. She leans toward beef in her cat foods, so I thought this might be a better route to try at first.

Also, I gather any of these freeze-dried 'additives' are considered 'treats'? When looking for them I see they are labeled either as food or treats. The foods appear to state they are nutritionally complete, so I guess I need to buy those labeled as treats?

Thanks.

Yes, beef liver is fine!

Sorry, I wasn't quite sure what you were asking here:
Also, I gather any of these freeze-dried 'additives' are considered 'treats'?

 

[FeebysOwner]

Yes, beef liver is fine! Sorry, I wasn't quite sure what you were asking here:
Also, I gather any of these freeze-dried 'additives' are considered 'treats'?

It's probably a question due to my ignorance. I see 'treats' labeled as 100% pure beef liver with no additives, so I presume that would be the same as buying fresh beef liver and using it to complete Alnutrin (along with eggshells, of course). I am sure I am just overthinking it.

 

[lisahe]

It's probably a question due to my ignorance. I see 'treats' labeled as 100% pure beef liver with no additives, so I presume that would be the same as buying fresh beef liver and using it to complete Alnutrin (along with eggshells, of course). I am sure I am just overthinking it.

Ah, got it! No, it's not your ignorance! It's that you and I are talking about freeze-dried liver in one context, meaning as a source of a necessary nutrient, but the manufacturers are talking about them as just a treat. And it's hard not to talk in circles about stuff like this!

It's even harder not to overthink things when supplementing meat or baby food. I've made odd mistakes before and feel fortunate that they were fairly small.

So yes, what's labeled as a "treat" that's 100% liver (of any sort) with no additives is good to use to complete Alnutrin (with eggshells). I once made the mistake of buying liver treats that had some sort of additive, though the label gave the distinct impression that they were only liver. Fortunately they weren't expensive and I gave them to someone on Buy Nothing, which I think of as the great equalizer since we all give and receive!

 

[FeebysOwner]

A bit of disheartening and frustrating news -

I reached out to the Raw Feeding for IBD Cats group, who wrote the instructions for using Alnutrin with baby food meat and asked for some clarification. The instructions say that 5/64 tsp is the amount to use with a jar of baby food meat, but they don't specify if that applies to all the versions of Alnutrin (Meat & Bone or Eggshell Calcium). They weren't able to provide any clarification.

So, I reached out to Alnutrin. Their web site instructions say to use 6.7g of their Eggshell Calcium version of their product with 1 pound of meat. I asked what that would equate to for 1 ounce of meat, both in terms of milligrams and teaspoons, since I don't know the consistency of Alnutrin to do a conversion calculation myself. Because I mentioned baby food meat, their only response is that their product is based on use with raw meat, so they couldn't provide me with any other information.

I know it is rough calculations, but 6.7 grams for 16 ounces equates to about 0.41 grams per 1 ounce. 0.41g is roughly about 0.82 teaspoons, which equates to 41/500 teaspoon in fractions. Using that number and converting it to 64ths as close as I can does come out to about 5/64, and correlates to what the instructions said. How bad would it be to use this as my basis of how much Alnutrin to add to the baby food meat?

 

[lisahe]

Oh, that is disheartening and frustrating. I don't think I have a real answer to your question, FeebysOwner .

I'm not quite sure what I'd do if I were in your position, though I think I'd probably figure that 5/64 tsp isn't far off. Recalling that some percentage (I've seen figures from 10-20%) of a cat's diet can be unsupplemented, I wouldn't worry too much about using too little supplement. (I accept a small margin of error when I weigh Alnutrin to make cat food, particularly since sometimes I'm a bit over, sometimes a bit under and the cat who eats the most homemade also eats freeze-dried chicken treats.)

That said, if I were to feed a lot of baby food to my cat, I'd probably contact the manufacturer to find out what percentage of the food, by weight is meat. Not dry matter but what I guess I'd call the recipe for an ounce of baby food, say .5 ounce chicken meat plus .5 ounce water/broth that gets cooked and mushed. I'd also be likely to check in with the vet, though I know that's a luxury since not all vets are helpful on questions like this.

I hope something there might make sense. (?)

Feeby is so lucky to have your excellent care!

 

[FeebysOwner]

I'd probably contact the manufacturer to find out what percentage of the food, by weight is meat. Not dry matter but what I guess I'd call the recipe for an ounce of baby food, say .5 ounce chicken meat plus .5 ounce water/broth that gets cooked and mushed. I'd also be likely to check in with the vet, though I know that's a luxury since not all vets are helpful on questions like this.

Thanks! I know the Raw Feeding instructions say that a 2.5oz jar of baby food meat is the equivalent of 1 oz of meat, whether or not that addresses what you are talking about, I am not sure. I got the same comment from EZ Complete, who - unlike Alnutrin - was more than happy to try to help me.

My vet works with me on most anything, but I think given what I am experiencing through all other avenues of the issue, this is way out of her domain, as I expect it would be for most vets who don't specialize in nutrition.

 

[lisahe]

Thanks! I know the Raw Feeding instructions say that a 2.5oz jar of baby food meat is the equivalent of 1 oz of meat, whether or not that addresses what you are talking about, I am not sure. I got the same comment from EZ Complete, who - unlike Alnutrin - was more than happy to try to help me.

My vet works with me on most anything, but I think given what I am experiencing through all other avenues of the issue, this is way out of her domain, as I expect it would be for most vets who don't specialize in nutrition.

Yes, 1 ounce of meat sounds like actionable information to me! (I'd probably still contact the company, to get a better sense of leeway on measurements and the like, though I do trust Raw Feeding for IBD Cats as a reliable source of information.)

Fingers crossed that this will all work for both you and Feeby!