Agar Agar... So What's The Deal?

[lisahe]

The situation with agar-agar seems more unclear than carrageenan, for which there's already a fair bit of research indicating that it can cause gastrointestinal inflammation. It doesn't seem like much has been done with agar-agar: I wonder if that will change because of concerns about carrageenan and food manufacturers (for humans and pets!) switching to agar-agar.

What you say about Japanese ice cream is interesting, @Willowy! I've cut most of the carrageenan out of the human diet in our household, with the occasional exception of Dove Minis. Since you mentioned carrageenan desserts, this seems like a good place to say that I have a British cookbook with a recipe for carrageenan pudding! Hmm.

In any case, like duckpond , I stay away from agar-agar because our cats already have weird digestive systems. And (also like duckpond!) I wish that pet food companies would lay off the thickeners anyway because cats just don't need them! duckpond and I have very similar lists.

 

[duckpond]

Yeah they eat a lot of real seaweed (it's delicious) but also derivatives. I would get these ice cream cones from a Japanese convenience store, and the ice cream didn't melt no matter how hot it was. I was told it had some kind of seaweed derivative that made it sort of jello-ish, I didn't know any more than that because I was a kid . Looking back, I assume it was carrageenan or something similar. Anyway, doesn't seem to cause any harm to them. Or me, so far, lol. I suppose you could look at ingredients of common Japanese foods online if you wanted to see if it's widely used.

Is there evidence that carrageenan degrades when cooked or in the stomach? I thought it only degraded when subjected to a specific chemical processing.

And I can't really find anything negative about agar-agar, admittedly I haven't gone past the first page of Google results though.

Anyway, yep, everybody has to have a list, I guess . Just making sure I'm not missing some crucial information.

there are so many different opinions and write ups about it, its hard what to think, or who to believe. some say it can be degraded in the body, some say it cannot, some say it is safe in the amounts we consume, some say its not. I don't know. I just know there is more written about this ingredient than any others that i have read about. and as one writer pointed out, it reacts to different species in widely different amounts. I don't think i have read anything specific to tests on cats. As it is one fairly easy ingredient to avoid, i do. Many cat food companies have stopped using Carageenan, some switched to Agar-Agar, some to other gums. I just wish more companies would make cat food without thickeners of any type. One less worry for me

 

[lisahe]

I just wish more companies would make cat food without thickeners of any type. One less worry for me

Indeed! This should be our new mantra.

 

[1 bruce 1]

Many things i read talk about Agar-agar being just like carageenan. I dont know if all i read about those two is true, but if it degrades during cooking, and degrades when it reacts with acids, and a cat has a very acidic stomach, i just don't want to chance it. I dont know as the risk of intestinal issues is worth it. I have also tried to cut as much as possible of it out of our diet too. No idea on the Japanese, i know they eat a lot of seaweeds, but im not sure about how processed it is, or if its more real seaweed, and in my mind that could make a difference. IDK. There are so many things to avoid in different foods, for different reasons. I guess we all need our own list of things, and this is one of mine

I agree.
Speak of lists, when it comes to pet food "super food" additives that are cleverly marketed, I really do have a hard time believing the food additions are of good quality even if the food is beneficial...I can't help but think the quality foods will be sold to humans. They're too valuable not to be!

 

[duckpond]

I agree.
Speak of lists, when it comes to pet food "super food" additives that are cleverly marketed, I really do have a hard time believing the food additions are of good quality even if the food is beneficial...I can't help but think the quality foods will be sold to humans. They're too valuable not to be!

If you really look at some of the "premium" foods we pay more per lb for it, or at least as much as we do good cuts of meat from the grocer. And i also dont like the "super food" ingredients. i prefer plain old, clean ingredients.

 

[lisahe]

If you really look at some of the "premium" foods we pay more per lb for it, or at least as much as we do good cuts of meat from the grocer. And i also dont like the "super food" ingredients. i prefer plain old, clean ingredients.

Indeed! In cat food, real meat is the only super food! Meow!

 

[catsdogsmom]

Perhaps in the future. Everything I have tried has caused her to have bloody diarrhea. Nature's variety rabbit has been her only saving grace but even with that she still has flare ups with blood and mucus in her stool.
I have to introduce things very slowly.
Would be great if/when she can eat different proteins, but time will tell. Lots of trial and error.

Hi Trisha,

My heart goes out to you and your furry one, and all others that are suffering. I apologize for the long post, but I have to share my experience that may help you or another who is going through the same or similar.

I was reading your post because I recently rescued another cat (our 3rd), but unlike the other 2, this one seems to have food allergies and possibly IBD. I read your post and what you're going through with your little furball and I HAD to register to TELL you. Perhaps, this helps you and your cat!

It's been 3 months, the vet I currently have for him is not that helpful, and the vet food recommended, RC GI, didn't really do much to change the situation except that all cats LOVE to eat it! However, since it doesn't help, the cat is still in pain, distress, etc.

Anyway, it's been a bit crazy and overwhelming since I've been trying to figure out what ails him, and watching him in pain, distress, restless, etc. was tough. And trying to figure out a food that works... even with some pumpkin to help with the diarrhea, the poor kitty was in pain, bloated, restless, would meow soooo much, have really loose stools (better from explosive ones back in June/July), etc. The vets didn't even suggest LID foods!

Thus, I googled, "what food can you feed a cat with IBD?" I came across this blog: What to feed cats with feline IBS, diarrhea, or frequent hairballs

After reading all of it, and checking different canned cat food, I started researching how to make my own food for cats, etc. but first would try LID foods. I got the Natural Balance (NB), but it wasn't palatable to him, so I added water + some fortiflora to get him to eat it, and it worked. I could see already a change in his stools and him belly.
I do add Fortiflora to his food for him to eat it because of the animal digest ingredient, but that doesn't really help with anything because it only has one strain of probiotic, but for picky, sick cats, or unappetizing foods, it helps them eat. Until I find a palatable food that helps him eat without it, I will have to keep using it.

***Then, I also clicked on a link on that same post that took me to: How treatment-resistant feline IBS symptoms healed in one month (not just by food)

I went to the ***Vitality Science site and started looking at products. I hoped that the blog wasn't simply advertising it for profit, and that story was really true. However, since I was also going to try different foods, I decided to give the site a try and order those products: primarily the luxolite and feline comfort (FC).

When I got to the site, they offered this combo that comes several different items for gastrointestinal natural meds for cats (Luxolite + FC , and I decided to buy that instead of the two alone because I thought that I could always try different ones. It was a way to see if he could have relief as I didn't want him doing rounds of antibiotics, tests, etc. and possible surgery.
I got this: Gastro Prime Combo for Cats | Vitality Science

I called first and talked to a rep who was very kind and patient in listening and discussing the issues with me, the natural medicines, what they do, etc.
I ordered it on Friday, 09/28, and got the package from NM to Miami, FL delivered on 09/30 at no extra cost! They shipped priority mail.

I immediately tried to Luxolite (liquid) that comes with a syringe as soon as it's meal time. To err on the side of caution as I wasn't too sure yet, I decided to mix only 1ml instead of the 1/2 tsp (about 2.5 ml). I had also recently put him on a LID diet with Natural Balance canned food (still searching for a better one because of texture and concerns with other ingredients). I mixed it with his food, and I noticed a slight change in him already. He's LESS fussy, restless, and meowing less.
I used this alone for about 6 days and just increased slightly each time, and just gave it to him once a day. He's now at 3ml, slightly above 1/2 tsp.

On the 7th day, 10/07/18, I started to mix a bit of luxolite, 3ml, with FC, less than 1/4 tsp just to try. And last evening, 10/09/18, aside from the first two (luxolite + FC), I added a bit of the Super Pet Enzymes (SPE) that comes with the combo.
They instruct us to start with one item and see how the cat (or dog) reacts, change doses, etc. and then slowly add others if a combination may work better.

I just have to tell you that in about a week and a half of trying these products, the litter box is cleaner and he has semi-formed stools which is GREAT!

This morning, 10/10/18, I fed him NB LID venison from last night, and a quarter of NB LID salmon because he's still hungry, mixed with the 3ml luxolite + FC -- less than the dose recommended + some of the SPE - also less.

Also, I introduced rabbit food as a snack for him (and the 2 others) last night before bedtime from Instinct, the LID pouch. He LOVED it and no diarrhea from trying another food brand and new protein!

My furball is so much calmer and seems happier: no bloating, no pain, not restless, no longer meows so much, no diarrhea, no loose stools, etc. And I'm convinced it's the natural medicine from Vitality Science that has helped him in such short amount of time!
I hope he continues to improve, and in 30 days, 3 months, etc., he's well. It'll give me a chance to find a better food for him while he's not in pain and suffering.

I really want to tell the world because it has the potential, if the cat or dog reacts well to those, to help our furry loved ones in such a short amount of time, avoid unnecessary use of antibiotics that may or may not help, and surgeries!

 

[daftcat75]

There’s an easy, though not cheap, way to find out which proteins your cat is intolerant to. My vet told me about NutriScan. I avoided poultry for so long after reading so many times that IBD cats and poultry don’t mix. Then I tried turkey with Krista, and now she’s thriving! I plan to try NutriScan—the next time I feel like scooping her into a vet’s office—to take the guesswork out of our next food choice. It’s something you can order for home as well though I’m not sure I’d do it right.

Has anyone else tried this?
Food Sensitivity and Intolerance Test for Pets | NutriScan

 

[catsdogsmom]

I came across NutriScan when I was searching for food for cats with IBD/IBS and food allergies/intolerance. However, I'm unsure how accurate or effective it is and want more info before I pay $300.00!
Apparently, if a cat is allergic to chicken, the cat will be to other poultry according to what I've read, but I'm unsure about it as well. If so, it is different from humans as I'm slightly allergic to chicken (and lamb) but not to duck or turkey according to my food allergy test.

It's getting a bit hard to get him to eat this LID Natural Balance food which, along with the Vitality Science natural stuff, has stabilized his GI track; unfortunately, sometimes he gets to the food from my other cat, and it goes back to soft.
He's skin issues (indicating allergies) that I have been noticing as he tries to scratch his back a lot, but can hardly reach. So, when we do scratch his back, he makes this adorable funny face and licks the air if he can't reach our face, arms, legs, etc. or anything near him, but he's a lot of bumps, some redness,... my poor baby! Nevertheless, it's NOTHING compared to what was going on before I started him on LID foods and the Vitality Science luxolite and feline comfort!

 

[daftcat75]

My Krista used Vitality Science as well. Luxo-Plus (Lux and Comfort Plus) got her through the vomiting and bloody stools. Once that was managed and her stools returned to normal, we shifted to Super Pet Enzymes and Pet Flora. That made a huge difference for her hairballs and her postmeal discomfort and helped her through her pancreatitis. This was going to be our maintenance medicine but she decided she was done with it. Done with the supplements. Done with the Tiki Cat I was feeding her because I was convinced she’d be allergic to chicken and poultry. Done even with treat tuna (tuna in water, supplemental feeding only.)

I rebooted her on Rawz turkey and Rad Cat turkey and she hasn’t needed her supplements anymore. She’s pretty much 100% raw now and 200% improved over Tiki. I wish we had tried turkey sooner. And I wish the guesswork of safe proteins hadn’t kept us from trying raw sooner.

Nutriscan is less expensive and likely more conclusive than the ultrasound I paid for. And $300 is about what our vet visits run me since they are usually something to do with food and blood and urine tests are the minimum. If I could take the guesswork out, maybe we can eliminate a vet visit or three and have the nutriscan pay for itself.

 

[catsdogsmom]

Thanks for sharing your experience and what worked for your cat, and Vitality Science is definitely helping, but he doesn't like to eat the food with the supplements in it.

After I read your post, I googled "Rawz" and found a local store that sells it, so I'll be going there shortly to see if I can buy a few cans to try it out, different flavors, and hope he'll eat it without incentives (fortiflora). I wasn't familiar with this one of Rad Cat as I haven't seen it in any large pet store. I may try that as well as it appears that the local one I found, Natural K9, and now Sunset Feed, carry Rad Cat.
I'm tempted to try chicken, turkey, and duck as well to test it to see if he has actually an allergy to chicken or if it's chicken/poultry from canned cat foods, even the grain free ones.

The other thing I'm considering is simply buying meat and cooking it myself and adding the supplements I already researched to make sure it's a balanced meal: I can try beef, pork, and turkey as those are the most common ones. I don't have a butcher that I know freezes meat right away to feed him raw food (and try to see if he'll eat it), so cooking from the grocery store may be an option, and then, adding Feline Instincts supplement to the food after it's cooked, for instance, and freezing the portions.

I've been reading lots of blogs about that: Making Cat Food
5 dangerous homemade cat food mistakes + how to avoid them

Let's see what will work for him!

 

[Jody123]

My cat also had bloody diarrhea that was determined to most likely be due to IBD caused by a food allergy, but when I mentioned to her vet that I'd found fairly large bone fragments in her Red Barn food, the vet allowed as how that too could cause bloody diarrhea. She has been doing really well on First Mate turkey wet food for over a year, but just recently got tired of it. I tried Ziwi Peak Chicken, which she loves, but noticed that she spit out a couple of small, sharp pieces of bone. Their site indicates that their wet food is 3% bone - why do pet food manufacturers feel that they have to put bits of bone that large in their product? I haven't seen any mention of bone as a potential problem on this site or others. When I asked Ziwi about it, they said the bone is there to "mimic a cat's diet in the wild". Cats in the wild don't live as long as house cats do though, and they don't eat little sharp, ground up bits of bone.

 

[lisahe]

Cats in the wild don't eat cooked bones, they eat raw ones, which are much safer because they don't splinter. (There's a quick bit about that on this raw feeding page about bone.)

Welcome to The Cat Site, Jody123!

 

[kittyluv387]

Theres Rawz Rabbit pate. Have you tried home made poultry? Does that set off your cat? Wondering if it could be one of the other ingredients in cans causing trouble. Btw you cant avoid peas in the NV LID line anymore. In addition to whole peas they now add pea protein. So i stopped buying it.

 

[Jody123]

Cats in the wild don't eat cooked bones, they eat raw ones, which are much safer because they don't splinter. (There's a quick bit about that on this raw feeding page about bone.)

Welcome to The Cat Site, Jody123!

Thanks, Lisahe. I don't know if the bones in the foods we've tried are cooked or not, but they don't crumble like fish bones that have been pressure cooked. They're very hard, and have sharp edges, like sharp bits of gravel. Not something I'd want in my digestive tract, or my cat's. My search continues for the ideal wet food, something with turkey, or maybe duck (which we haven't tried) as the main ingredient. I think it might be chicken that she's sensitive to.

 

[daftcat75]

Thanks, Lisahe. I don't know if the bones in the foods we've tried are cooked or not, but they don't crumble like fish bones that have been pressure cooked. They're very hard, and have sharp edges, like sharp bits of gravel. Not something I'd want in my digestive tract, or my cat's. My search continues for the ideal wet food, something with turkey, or maybe duck (which we haven't tried) as the main ingredient. I think it might be chicken that she's sensitive to.

If you're looking for turkey, duck, or rabbit, I love the Rawz brand. Though it may be hard to find, there may be some online resellers you can order from if you check their website.

 

[lisahe]

If you're looking for turkey, duck, or rabbit, I love the Rawz brand. Though it may be hard to find, there may be some online resellers you can order from if you check their website.

Rawz is very good food. Our cats really hoovered up their beef Rawz last night! (They go through cycles with Rawz, loving it, then getting a little tired of it, whereupon I set it aside, bring it out a month or two later, when they love it, then get tired of it... you get the picture!)

 

[Jody123]

If you're looking for turkey, duck, or rabbit, I love the Rawz brand. Though it may be hard to find, there may be some online resellers you can order from if you check their website.

Thanks - I'll look into that...

 

[MSCW118116]

If you are still looking for canned food, RAWZ has a very good LINE. They use fenugreek seeds instead of other thickeners and I feed it to my cats, one of which has a sensitive stomach. She can't have any gums or carageenan. I feed them turkey, but they recently came out with rabbit and other flavors.

 

[MSCW118116]

If you are still looking for canned food, RAWZ has a very good LINE. They use fenugreek seeds instead of other thickeners and I feed it to my cats, one of which has a sensitive stomach. She can't have any gums or carageenan. I feed them turkey, but they recently came out with rabbit and other flavors.

Rawznaturalpetfood.com