Adopting adult raw-fed cat.. would like both cats to be fed raw..

[sphynx]

I lost my darling male Sphynx - Molly - on 1 March due to HCM. I was heartbroken and swore I would never have another, but the remaining Sphynx - Caluga - seems to be lonely on his own, so I have caved in and am adopting a beautiful 6 year old retired Sphynx queen. She is a beauty, in fact she was the South African cat of the year in 2007 so I guess we had better all learn to curtsey before her arrival 

. She is fed a totally raw diet and I feel that this would be a great time to switch my resident cat, Caluga, at the same time. He currently eats RC Sensitivity Control and Orijen, but I would far rather he had a raw diet. He does like wet food.. does that bode well for him enjoying a raw diet? I am obviously super to new to this idea, but also feel excited at the prospect. How does a raw diet work.. e.g. how often do they have to be fed per day? Is twice a day OK? Should he still have kibble when having the raw? What quantity per cat? Thanks in advance!

 

[ldg]

Oh I'm so sorry about Molly! But I'm so glad your Molly found a companion for Caluga. :heart2: And royalty at that! rincess:

You might want to spend a little time reading some of our transition threads. :lol3: We all had the same questions!

As to his liking wet food... I'm going to have to say that there's no real relationship between liking wet food and raw food. Yes, being able to enjoy the texture of wet may bode well for feeding ground raw food... but when I started the transition in January to raw food from wet food (I transitioned mine to 100% wet food in 2010), most of my gang (I have 8 cats) decided that they didn't like ground raw. :dk: So now I feed them a prey-model diet (chunks with meat and organs, supplemented with calcium).

But really, transitioning them to raw is a big change. It requires all kinds of stuff of their GI system that they haven't needed to "use" because of the high-heat processed diet, and that can take some adjustment. You will be THRILLED with the results - but some interesting things can happen along the way. :lol3: Think of a transition to raw like you would a transition to kibble. When you feed canned foods, you can just swap brands or proteins without a problem. But kibble, a lot of cats need to have it introduced slowly so as not to upset their GI systems. This is raw. :nod: It is totally recommended to get them on probiotics to ensure a healthy gut flora (because they don't get that from their food), and digestive enzymes can really help ease the transition. :nod: I don't know what brands are available where you live, but I'm sure a pet shop will be able to help with the enzymes. For probiotics, I just buy mine from the refrigerated section of a health food store, and I give my cats the low-end human dose (10 billion active acidophilus cultures daily). I just sprinkle that on their food - they like it. :nod:

If your boy is free-feeding on the kibble, it's best to start with a number of small meals, if that's possible. When on raw, they will produce more stomach acid. So they have to adjust to eating fewer meals over time. :nod: The ideal is three meals a day, as cats' digestive systems are designed to eat many small meals a day. Three seems to be a good number. Most of us feed in the morning, around dinner, and before bed. This is working really well for my group. I have one cat that tends to over produce acid, so I often have to give him a little treat of freeze dried chicken before breakfast. If you feed them raw on a stomach full of acid, they'll just throw it up.

So the recommendations are:

If you're not on timed meals, move to timed meals.
Start your boy on a probiotic now, and when you start feeding raw, use digestive enzymes for the first month or two.
If you can transition him to wet from kibble, great. It's easy to introduce ground raw into wet food - start small. Most of us began with 25% raw, 75% wet (or less raw). If he eats it, slowly increase the amount. Most of us also found it best to stick with one protein at first - Carolina and I stuck with one protein until it was at 100%, then began introducing another.

Of course... some kitties take to it like a duck to water, and you can throw anything at them. The best is just try and see! If he barfs at a new protein, then you know you need to back off a bit.

I think you'll find this thread REALLY helpful. Being in South Africa, I don't know if the links or brands will help - but the ideas will. :nod: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/241623/raw-transition-resources-thread

And if you didn't see this link at the top of the forum, the resources in here will be of enormous help too! http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread

 

[sphynx]

Oh wow.. what a ton of great information LDG 

. There is certainly a lot to plan and think about and seeing as how I will be feeding Soso a raw diet it seems only natural to introduce the same to Caluga. I am going to print off your reply and read each bit carefully, as well as the link that you posted - full of great advice. It is great to have such fantastic support and I really appreciate your comments and help. Once our new kitty has arrived I will be sure to let you know how the new feeding regime is going! Thanks so much, Carol. 

 

[ldg]

Well, one thing you can do right away. When you make dinner, slice of a small piece of whatever you're making BEFORE you season or cook it. Offer it to Caluga - see if he likes it! Some cats know raw meat is food - some don't, and need help figuring that out.

I felt overwhelmed at first - and nervous. I think many of us do. Now I find myself running to the supermarket, buying something on sale, and cutting it up for their dinner. :lol3: I do try to buy organic or grass-fed meat (or pasture fed/vegetarian fed poultry). Of course, they need more than just meat. They need organs and calcium too. But you've got time to figure that out, this is a new adventure right now.

It takes a while to get comfortable with the process. And you can feed Caluga up to 15% of his diet without it being properly balanced without fear of harming him - so TRY to feel comfortable experimenting!

Do you know what she's been eating? A commercial product? A home made one? Ground? Prey Model?

mschauer will be very helpful if you want to make home made ground food. :nod: I'm sure there will be commercial raw options available to you there. Most are marketed for dogs, but if you find raw grinds that are 95% (or more) meat and supplemented with taurine, they're appropriate for cats. :nod: And you can always add taurine yourself if just the ground meat/bones/organs is available.

 

[sphynx]

Thanks so much LDG.. I feel totally and absolutely overwhelmed

. After reading s(o much - all of it excellent advice - I feel like reaching out for a bag of kibble and burying my head in the sand! I am slightly worried, as my senior Frenchie eats raw from time to time and when she has left some of it in her dish neither of my cats would ever even go near it 

 - in fact they would give it a wide berth! Well, I am hoping that once Caluga sees Soso eating the raw he may just also want to try it. Soso has been on a total raw diet.. she comes from a farming area of South Africa and her owner says she loves venison, especially minced Kudu (which is a very large antelope). She gave me the name of someone who prepares raw for dogs and cats and I spoke to him yesterday and I will be ordering quite a substantial amount. I hope you don't mind that I attach the menu as I would love your thoughts on it..

http://giveadogabone.co.za/onthemenu.html

It seems pretty good to me and comes recommended by Soso's owner, so I am quite happy with that. I think I will order the minced chicken for the cats. I don't think I will be making my own raw and unfortunately the site that I have linked you to is the only supplier of raw food where I live. Having said that, I hear really good feedback about them, so I am going to give it a go. Ooh, my head is spinning with all this info!! Thanks so much for your help!

 

[ldg]

I can't really tell from the link what's in the food. I might just not be navigating the site correctly. :dk:

But basically, the BEST ground food is simply whole prey. Some remove head, feet, and gut. Next to that, the ideal is a mix that includes 80% meat, 8% - 10% bone, 3-5% liver, and 3-5% other secreting organ. For this purpose, heart, lungs, gizzards are considered muscle meat, not secreting organs. This mix "mimics" whole prey. And ideally, there are no grains, fruits, or vegetables added to cat food, but many add about 5% of that stuff - that's not bad.

 

[mschauer]

Thanks so much LDG.. I feel totally and absolutely overwhelmed

. After reading s(o much - all of it excellent advice - I feel like reaching out for a bag of kibble and burying my head in the sand!

It can be really overwhelming at first. You might take a look at this link: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood

About half down the page Dr. Pierson goes into how to actually make the food. You'll see it really isn't complicated. Dr Pierson has used her recipe with only small adjustments for many years with excellent results.

 I hope you don't mind that I attach the menu as I would love your thoughts on it..

http://giveadogabone.co.za/onthemenu.html

It really isn't possible to comment on that food since no information is given on what it contains. 
 

 

[sphynx]

Thanks for that link mschauer.. I know I will find it informative. I think that at some point it would be great to be able to make my own, as it is quite a long drive to buy the pre-made raw and once the initial cost of the meat grinder has been sorted out thereafter it would be quite cost effective. I have spoken to the owner of Giveadogabone and it sounds like a very balanced meal with no fruit, veg or additives. I am driving to buy some tomorrow as I would like to get going sooner than later. Thanks for all the wonderful information available on this site!!

 

[ldg]

Good luck! Hope you find time to keep us updated. And, of course, we're always here for more questions.

 

[sphynx]

Thanks so much LDG for all your great guidance and advice 

. Will definitely let you know how it all goes!

 

[feralvr]

HI!! Just want to say I am sorry about your Molly and agree with Laurie, that Molly had a "paw" in finding your new baby :nod: I wanted to thank you for the link to Giveadogabone :nod: I have two older dog's that are eating raw as well as my cat's. WELL, my cat's, that is a whole other story :lol3: I am interested in looking more closely at that link later tonight. It seems to me that there are more and more people transitioning their dogs and cats to a raw diet. Good luck with your new kitty and this new raw journey!!!!

 

[sphynx]

Thanks so much for the responses 

. Didn't think I would be back so soon, eek! I need a bit of advice. Last night I gave Caluga 75% wet food and 25% chicken gizzards and he pretty much ate quite a bit, although not all. He even ate some of the raw gizzards - probably unknowingly! This morning I upped the amount of chicken.. I gave him about half wet food and about half chopped chicken leg. He literally had a few licks at the food and left it. I left his plate our for about half an hour but he didn't come back for more. He went straight upstairs back to bed Should I try to give him another meal at lunch? Is it OK that he is only eating miniscule amounts? He is a very skinny cat. I am off this morning to buy the ready made raw and I hoping like crazy that that might hold more appeal for him!! One thing is for sure.. the kibble is not coming out of the cupboard and I will take it (I have almost 4 full bags) to the shelter. I had an inkling that this wasn't going to be plain sailing..

 

[feralvr]

This can be a very frustrating and upsetting process for us momma's!!!!!! Believe me, I am still having major troubles with my Perla. AND, there are times that I have to go back to EVO kibbles with her. She is impossible and I can't have her losing weight or getting stressed as she has been dealing with Herpes virus flare ups. Anyway, I would absolutely offer Caluga even up to four small meals a day. In the beginning, it is really hit or miss as to finding out what they like and dislike. And loads of money being wasted Although, I have two dogs and feral cats that will eat the rejected raw meat. There are also many "topper's" that we all use to entice them to eat the meat. This does not work for all cat's, like the Perla's of the world :lol3: What works one day, won't work for the next :frusty:. Hopefully, Caluga will catch on quickly and you will be well on your way to 100% raw with him. :cross:

OH for topping's my cat's favorites are : Halo Freeze-dried Salmon and Whole Life Freeze-dried Chicken OR Turkey, and of course, Fortiflora, which can be addicting so avoid at all costs :lol3: These can all be ordered on-line at Amazon easily.

 

[sphynx]

Thanks Feralvr! I am happy to report that Caluga had a 50/50 meal tonight with his wet food and the new pre-made raw I bought today and he finished the whole plate, so I am holding thumbs that it continues like that!!

 

[ldg]

So this may be easy! Some kitties just don't even recognize raw as "food" - and they can cause QUITE the headaches, tears, and frustration for us. SO glad it doesn't seem Caluga is going to be one of "those!" :lol3:

 

[sphynx]

Thanks LDG.. I am so holding thumbs 

 and thank you very much for the support!!

 

[sphynx]

Help.. 

 I think I spoke too soon. Caluga ate his raw/wet meal last night. He ate nothing at breakfast time and it is now dinner time and is is not remotely interested 

. I just don't know what to do.. he has not stopped crying for hours now. Do I give in???? I was in contact with the breeder who will be sending Soso to us next week and she says Soso eats everything raw, but also has kibble in between. I am really stuck. By tomorrow morning he will not have eaten for 36 hours.. can that really be good for him?? He is really skinny to start with and I am scared he might lose more weight. Feeling totally confused as I hate hearing him crying all the time for something to eat. Should I give in to kibbles?? HELP PLEASE!!!!!! Thanks!

 

[carmina piranha]

Oh, I'm sorry to hear he's not willing to eat the raw right now!

Are you still giving him 50/50 with canned food? If he has refused that--or canned with just a little spoonful of raw--several times, I would offer him 100% canned.  After a few days of happy eating, try to start mixing in a little raw, and just a little more each day.

I don't know if you got rid of all the kibble already. If you still have it in the house, as you know from the Give a Dog a Bone site, your kitty can smell it and may be holding out. Go put in in your car, maybe. BUT, I recommend you save at least a cup or two (or more) in your fridge, because crushing it and putting it atop the other food can help entice your kitty. Or, in case the kibble is all you can use to get your cat to eat during this setback.  Several folks on here have had to backslide in the transition, sometimes to kibble.

We were so lucky in our transition, as we did 3 7-month-old kittens (instant success! OK, with one brief wobble) and one 2-year old cat.   I thought the 2-year old cat, who HATES canned food, and is a very, very stubborn cat (so I thought) would be a problem.  However, for her we just added a little more raw each day, and a month later, she wasn't eating kibble anymore.  It isn't recommended to feed much kibble along with raw, because the kibble's ingredients change the chemistry in the digestive system in a way that can sometimes mess up the raw's digestion, but...it's the way the transition worked for my cat.

You do not want your cat to go more than 24 hours without eating anything.  If it's a kitten, my vet said more like 12 hours max.  And yes, if it comes down to it, I would say to give the cat kibble if that's the only thing he will eat, and work on the raw food the next day, or in a couple of days.

How old is your kitty?

Best of luck, and I'll do that thumb thing for you! (in the US we say "finger's crossed, " I always love learning little things like that!) 

  

 

[carolina]

Help..   I think I spoke too soon. Caluga ate his raw/wet meal last night. He ate nothing at breakfast time and it is now dinner time and is is not remotely interested  . I just don't know what to do.. he has not stopped crying for hours now. Do I give in???? I was in contact with the breeder who will be sending Soso to us next week and she says Soso eats everything raw, but also has kibble in between. I am really stuck. By tomorrow morning he will not have eaten for 36 hours.. can that really be good for him?? He is really skinny to start with and I am scared he might lose more weight. Feeling totally confused as I hate hearing him crying all the time for something to eat. Should I give in to kibbles?? HELP PLEASE!!!!!! Thanks!

You should never, ever starve a cat into raw, or for any other reason - that can be very dangerous..... You might end up with a sick kitty instead..... Cats who go too long without eating risk Hepatic Lipidosis, which is a very serious disease.
You have to feed your kitty.....
The introduction to raw is slow, requires patience and persistence..... Starving the kitty into it is really not the way to do it IMHO-
Good Luck, and hang in there !

 

[ldg]

to both of the above! You simply cannot starve cats into eating raw food (or any food!). I don't have anything to add in way of suggestions, as Carmina Piranha covered them well. :nod: This is totally a process, and ensuring they eat - whatever it is - during the transition is crucial!

Sending vibes for you and your boy!