About To Start Crate Training For My Extremely Litter Box Averse Cat

[sunny578]

Well, we are in a bad place again Crate training got us two 3 month blocks of perfect litter box usage (had to do a week in the crate in between.) Now, since July, Tiny's relationship with the box has been hit or miss (haha:-/), and for the last two or three weeks, it's been accidents mixed in with litter box usage. I've experimented with adding more boxes in the places where she has accidents, trying new litter, making trails of treats that lead to her litter boxes, treating her after she's used her box. The changes seemed to be working well until yesterday, when she stopped using her box and had three accidents in a 12 hour period. So she's back in the crate. I feel horrible because she doesn't understand, and I know she's not going through a cystitis flare up bc of the frequency of her bathroom activity, so she feels good and wants to socialize! It's such a beautiful fall day and she just wants to hang out on the back deck, but instead she's locked in her crate. Oh Tiny. If I had a super power it would be to read your mind. I think she just really doesn't care and prefers to use the floor. Hopefully some crate time will get her back in the habit of using her box.

Thanks for listening!

 

[sunny578]

I also want to add that Tiny has her own bedroom (the coolest room in the house IMO. It has a himalayan salt wall and crystals and a swank black couch) that is dog free and has two exits--one through the cat door on the gate, and a new secret passageway door that leads to my daughter's bedroom, where Tiny likes to nap some weeks. I have a fan on in there for white noise. She has a cat tree in the master bedroom, and that's her main perching area. She is welcome to perch anywhere else, but she's never been super confident about jumping so she doesn't. I feel like I've done a lot to make our space nice for her, but if anyone has any other ideas, let me know!

Thanks

 

[rubysmama]

Poor you. Poor Tiny. I wish we could read her mind.

 

[Furballsmom]

I read your other threads because you said she's not a jumper (she's getting fed on the floor now?) ...and that got me thinking.

So, she got constipated several years ago,
stopped pooping in the box, and you said she's chronically constipated still?....have you changed her food? Does she get canned food? Do you have a pet fountain?
Can you start adding 1-2 tablespoons of plain pumpkin to her food every 12-24 hours for the extra fiber?

Then during a weekend that you were gone a couple of years ago a stand-in pet sitter (not your usual one) came by with a dog. Tiny ran away and didn't want to come home and after that the pee problems started. Did you find out what happened that weekend?

She's been to the vet?

My main question is that I'm wondering, is it possible she has some nerve damage that keeps her from knowing she needs to go?

 

[sunny578]

Thank you so much for all of your thoughts and questions! First an update: I cannot handle keeping her in the crate (emotionally), so I let her out and am just going to go back to putting her in there twice a day. More often than not, she urinates the second I put her in her box.

She got constipated (7 years ago now?) when I switched my other cat over to raw food. Tiny loved the raw too so I switched them both, but then she got constipated and has been constipated ever since (even though I've changed her back to canned food, dry food, home cooked food, whatever.) Now she eats 100% raw, except for the occasional treat. We did the pumpkin for 6 months, but it didn't seem to be helping. She has a chinese herb that's supposed to really help, but it's super bitter and I can only get a little bit in her at a time. Every 3-6 months, she needs her anal glands expressed, and after she's had that done, she seems a bit more comfortable when she goes. Anyways, she pretty much never goes #2 in a litter box, which feels completely normal and manageable at this point.

There was an unauthorized dog over at our house that weekend, and I think maybe it was just too much for her. Before then though, she was never perfect with urinating in the box, so it wasn't a shock that she stopped using it all together. We also lost our other cat around that same time, and while they weren't extremely bonded, the other cat had a calm assertive presence that probably made Tiny feel more confident. She was also old and a bit stinky and prob made our house smell more catty than doggy.

The nerve damage thing is so interesting! I will investigate that! I've had Tiny her whole life, and she's had no physical trauma, outside of being hospitalized for eating a lily when she was a kitten. It does seem like that sometimes--that she just doesn't realize she has to go until she has to go. Other times though, it does seem like she's holding it on purpose.

Sometimes I think that I just moved her around too much and introduced too many life changes for her nervous constitution to handle. I also wonder if she has increased anxiety since she didn't nurse as a kitten. Maybe not having a mom also made her more prone to constipation? I remember having to massage her litter to help them all go to the bathroom when they were younger.

All the vet has found over the years is evidence of past cystitis.

Thanks again so much for trying to help me solve this puzzle!! The weirdest thing to me now is that she used the box so perfectly after her crate time for 6 months! It was such a joy to hear her jump in there and to sometimes scratch! Oh well. At least her accidents are no longer on me while I'm sleeping or on the couch.

Thanks again

 

[sunny578]

I'm prob anthropomorphizing, but maybe it's some kind of extended middle child syndrome. She was the baby of the house until I got my dog, and then we just kept adding on creatures. She hangs out when I clean her accidents. Maybe on some level she is trying to get attention. Or maybe that's a silly theory. I try to set aside Tiny time, but I know it's not nearly as much as she used to get.

 

[Furballsmom]

Not a silly thought at all, have you looked into some toys that she can play with?
Can you give her toys, like food puzzles and hexbug toys, etc to entertain her?
Increased exercise can help with constipation;

Food Puzzles for Cats

20 Best Interactive Cat Toys: The Ultimate List (2018) | Heavy.com

Home The Ripple Rug

There are also Lickimats that you could spread types of soft food onto, even plain unflavored yogurt, and even freeze it. Licking something can help a cat to feel better emotionally The LickiMat - Food Puzzles for Cats

 

[Furballsmom]

Also since the pumpkin didn't work, check with your vet first (because sometimes low fiber helps more than increasing fiber) but here are some other options;
Metamucil , 1-4 teaspoons every 12-24 hours
Miralax, 1/4 teaspoon once a day in canned food
Wheat bran 1-2 Tablespoons in food every 12-24 hours

Laxatone - this is a gel that's lickable to literally help lubricate the system
Ice cubes, or flavoring her water with tuna juice or clam juice can help increase water consumption

Per Mamanyt1953 what if you tried this chamomile recipe, and also music?
try 1-3 teaspoonfuls of chilled chamomile tea, up to 3 times a day. Administer via syringe, placing the tip between the cheek and gum, and injecting SLOWLY, allowing time to swallow. Use the commercial tea bags from the coffee/tea aisle of your local grocery store to insure that you are getting German chamomile, which is safe for cats. English, which often grows in gardens, is not.
I like the chamomile because it is gently calming without being actually sedating. No wobbly, drunk kitties staggering around.

Regarding music, try low volume classical harp music, George Handel compositions, or the app Relax My Cat.

 

[Artistwolf]

Does Tiny go outside at all? I’m wondering if it might be good for her to go outside on a leash or something. It could give her more stimulation and I know that my cats at least love peeing in the grass. Don’t know if that helps at all, and of course it would probably be nearly impossible to teach a cat to be housetrained like a dog, but I think cats really enjoy having some (supervised) time outside each day. I can’t imagine my cats not having the opportunity to roll around in the sun—it looks like stress relief to me!

 

[sunny578]

Not a silly thought at all, have you looked into some toys that she can play with?
Can you give her toys, like food puzzles and hexbug toys, etc to entertain her?
Increased exercise can help with constipation;

Food Puzzles for Cats

20 Best Interactive Cat Toys: The Ultimate List (2018) | Heavy.com

Home The Ripple Rug

There are also Lickimats that you could spread types of soft food onto, even plain unflavored yogurt, and even freeze it. Licking something can help a cat to feel better emotionally The LickiMat - Food Puzzles for Cats

Thank you so much! I didn't know they had food puzzles for cats! She might very well be into that! I will check them out, and the lickimat! Tiny's absolute favorite treat is nutritional yeast. Sometimes I wonder if that has done something strange to her urine that has resulted in litter box issues. She has been in a good place though since I started putting her in the crate twice a day. That's what has made me wonder if it's partially an attention thing.

That's so interesting about the chamomile tea! I'd prefer not to mess with her mouth bc that causes her stress. I wonder if there would be another way to get it in her. Actually, I could put nutritional yeast on top, like I do with her uri-cleanse., and she'd probably lick it up. She has a TCM remedy for anxiety that I add to her food (Shen Calmer.) I can't tell if it helps. Most of the time she doesn't seem that anxious. I'm going to check out that app too! Perhaps Tiny needs her own boom box and iphone haha.

I so appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions! It's so nice to have a place to talk about Tiny. Thank you.

 

[sunny578]

Does Tiny go outside at all? I’m wondering if it might be good for her to go outside on a leash or something. It could give her more stimulation and I know that my cats at least love peeing in the grass. Don’t know if that helps at all, and of course it would probably be nearly impossible to teach a cat to be housetrained like a dog, but I think cats really enjoy having some (supervised) time outside each day. I can’t imagine my cats not having the opportunity to roll around in the sun—it looks like stress relief to me!

Thank you for your thoughts! Yes, she does go outside. At our old house I got so frustrated that I just opened the cat door 24/7 so she could have constant outside access. I think she went to the bathroom outside maybe once a month. We have dogs so I think she sees the outside more as their territory. She is kind of like a dog now in that I have to put her in her litter box to remind her to go to the bathroom! As long as this works, it's totally fine. I just don't get it, but whatever!

Thank you!

 

[Furballsmom]

You are very welcome!!
Mamanyt1953 you are the tea expert, can you help with a fussy kitty?

 

[Mamanyt1953]

OOOOH boy. Not sure how to get it in her without that syringe. Let me do some digging...is she on wet or dry food? You probably mentioned it, but hit me with it again...I've got an idea in mind that will need some research.

And kinda off the wall (pun intended), are you certain that she isn't licking that salt wall? They're lovely, but some cats can't resist them, and throw their electrolytes out of whack, as well as concentrating urine, which could cause accidents.

 

[Furballsmom]

Tiny's absolute favorite treat is nutritional yeast. Sometimes I wonder if that has done something strange to her urine that has resulted in litter box issues.

Hi! Just today I read that nutritional yeast can increase uric acid which can cause kidney issues, and wanted thought of you...

 

[sunny578]

Hi! Just today I read that nutritional yeast can increase uric acid which can cause kidney issues, and wanted thought of you...

Thank you so much!! She does eat quite a lot of it I hate to take something away from her but I don't want to give any cat's kidneys an excuse to act up

 

[sunny578]

OOOOH boy. Not sure how to get it in her without that syringe. Let me do some digging...is she on wet or dry food? You probably mentioned it, but hit me with it again...I've got an idea in mind that will need some research.

And kinda off the wall (pun intended), are you certain that she isn't licking that salt wall? They're lovely, but some cats can't resist them, and throw their electrolytes out of whack, as well as concentrating urine, which could cause accidents.

Thank you! I'm sorry--I didn't see these so I'm a little late here. She eats raw food only. It used to be rad cat, but they just closed their operation so now we are jumping around with the other brands. Fortunately, the salt wall is out of her reach.

She was extra constipated today so I gave her some half and half for the first time. I remember reading somewhere that dairy can act as a natural laxative for cats. Think I might search the health section here from info on that.

Thank you!!

 

[Furballsmom]

Did you have a chance to try any of these things?

...check with your vet first (because sometimes low fiber helps more than increasing fiber) but here are some other options;
Metamucil , 1-4 teaspoons every 12-24 hours
Miralax, 1/4 teaspoon once a day in canned food
Wheat bran 1-2 Tablespoons in food every 12-24 hours

Laxatone - this is a gel that's lickable to literally help lubricate the system
Ice cubes, or flavoring her water with tuna juice or clam juice can help increase water consumption.

 

[sunny578]

Constipation: Real Help for Your Cat

Thank you! I found this, and am wondering if Tiny is actually constipated. She hasn't been using the box much, but hasn't been having any accidents either, unless you count yesterday afternoon when I could tell she had to go so I picked her up to put her in the box but then she urinated partially on me. I'm not sure if at this point me putting her in the box is causing her anxiety and we are on kind of a circular loop. Her food brand went out of business so we have been jumping around trying to find a new acceptable brand of raw food, which I'm sure is stressing her out. It's possible that she's going to the bathroom outside when we let her out in the early am or evening (when it's still dark) but that's never been a regular thing for her in the past. She just goes through phases where something seems a little off, like she's mildly depressed. I don't know--I don't think there are answers right now. I just don't get why we had 6 amazing months of her using her box and now we are here. It actually all changed around July 4th this time, and July 4th was HORRIBLE here. My 90lb epileptic dog was pacing the halls at 1AM urinating everywhere himself. If our honeymoon trip was enough to spark 14 months of no litter box usage for Tiny, then I guess that pseudo war zone night could be enough to get us to this workable yet stressful place. I've got a bunch of sensitive creatures over here!

Thanks for listening!

 

[rubysmama]

No suggestion, just hugs ...

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
I don't know if you've seen these threads?
Alternatives To Rad Cat?

Rawr - Anyone Try This One?