A New "Raw"some Beginning... (yup - another one LOL)

[ldg]

LOL, sounds to me like Pip is your equivalent of Carolina's Lucky. :lol3: And Temptation treats are his Halo chicken! GREAT idea!!!!!! You'll have to keep us posted - but I'm sure the new trick will help. And who knows? Maybe on day 35 he'll just start eating it all.

I'm so glad everyone else is doing so well! :bigthumb:

 

[carolina]

awesome report!!! Temptation treats! Might use those to accelerate things around here with miss Lucky!
Thanks for the tip :bigthumb:
And yey for tomorrow 100% raw

 

[feralvr]

Thanks !!!!!! Yeah - Lucky gives me hope for Pipsqueak. - I am not sure what day we are on though. :lol3: If it takes 35 days or 135 days - we won't give up!!!!! I picked up the Temptation treats today AND the Whole Life Chicken came in too. AND he likes them It takes some convincing with this one - and after he pushed the treat around on the floor for ten minutes - YES - he is that ODD - he ate it. Of course during that ten minutes - the dog's kept snatching a piece so I had to keep replacing it I had to try to keep the other cat's at bay and away from the task at hand - getting Pip to eat the darn treat. I won't give him too much food at bedtime. So he will be good and hungry tomorrow morning at breakfast - I will push the Lamb again and make tiny pea size treats for him. What a PIA.... and extra work LOL - but hope it works. Feeding all of these "pets" at my house takes me forever in the morning now. The ferals have to wait a bit longer for their breakfast too..... :lol3:

Dinner went extremely well . 75% S&C Lamb - 25% Core. I used the last of the Halo powder in the container for Perla's dinner - she licked her plate clean. All the boys - well the four "good" boys cleaned their plates. The ONE "odd ball" had NV rabbit for dinner. I only have six medallions left That order had better come in tomorrow at the store - I will get two bags of the NV rabbit IF they get it. I am hoping that Pipsqueak likes the NV Chicken and really hoping for introduction of the Primal Turkey. Pip loves turkey - but I won't be introducing that until after the NV chicken.

I have to tell you guys something very funny about Pipsqueak. Today at lunch - just for a snack by hand - I offered up some NV Venison to Presley, Walden and Wendall - the ones who tolerate the Venison. Pipsqueak came running up all excited to see what wonderful treat I was doling out. WELL to his dismay and disgust - it was the hno: forbidden Venison . He took one sniff and then made a dramatic "gag" reflex. :rofl: He had me in stitches. He walked away - all the while turning back to give me a dirty look. He did do this gag reflex once before but not this dramatic. Of course, I would not offer him the Venison again, it makes him very ill and he hates it anyway. I will not keep that in the rotation

Later tonight I will offer the freeze-dried Lamb for the bedtime snack. It has been working really well in place of the dry - but not for Pip..... :nothappy:

Tomorrow morning it will be Lamb 100% :cross: My first 100% protein!!! I will have a lot of topping's to offer - just in case. :lol3:

 

[carolina]

Thanks !!!!!! Yeah - Lucky gives me hope for Pipsqueak. - I am not sure what day we are on though. :lol3: If it takes 35 days or 135 days - we won't give up!!!!! I picked up the Temptation treats today AND the Whole Life Chicken came in too. AND he likes them It takes some convincing with this one - and after he pushed the treat around on the floor for ten minutes - YES - he is that ODD - he ate it. Of course during that ten minutes - the dog's kept snatching a piece so I had to keep replacing it I had to try to keep the other cat's at bay and away from the task at hand - getting Pip to eat the darn treat. I won't give him too much food at bedtime. So he will be good and hungry tomorrow morning at breakfast - I will push the Lamb again and make tiny pea size treats for him. What a PIA.... and extra work LOL - but hope it works. Feeding all of these "pets" at my house takes me forever in the morning now. The ferals have to wait a bit longer for their breakfast too..... :lol3:
Dinner went extremely well . 75% S&C Lamb - 25% Core. I used the last of the Halo powder in the container for Perla's dinner - she licked her plate clean. All the boys - well the four "good" boys cleaned their plates. The ONE "odd ball" had NV rabbit for dinner. I only have six medallions left That order had better come in tomorrow at the store - I will get two bags of the NV rabbit IF they get it. I am hoping that Pipsqueak likes the NV Chicken and really hoping for introduction of the Primal Turkey. Pip loves turkey - but I won't be introducing that until after the NV chicken.
I have to tell you guys something very funny about Pipsqueak. Today at lunch - just for a snack by hand - I offered up some NV Venison to Presley, Walden and Wendall - the ones who tolerate the Venison. Pipsqueak came running up all excited to see what wonderful treat I was doling out. WELL to his dismay and disgust - it was the hno: forbidden Venison . He took one sniff and then made a dramatic "gag" reflex. :rofl: He had me in stitches. He walked away - all the while turning back to give me a dirty look. He did do this gag reflex once before but not this dramatic. Of course, I would not offer him the Venison again, it makes him very ill and he hates it anyway. I will not keep that in the rotation
Later tonight I will offer the freeze-dried Lamb for the bedtime snack. It has been working really well in place of the dry - but not for Pip..... :nothappy:
Tomorrow morning it will be Lamb 100% :cross: My first 100% protein!!! I will have a lot of topping's to offer - just in case. :lol3:

how exciting! 100% raw day!
Can't wait to hear that adventure!
Well, things seem to be going smoother now, so I am sure you will do just fine :cross:
Keep going!!!!

 

[ldg]

LOL, well looks like you've got a drama :king: in addition to your drama rincess: !! It is really amazing the expressions they come up with, isn't it? :lol3: Such expressive creatures! :heart3:

You're almost at 100% on a protein!

And now with the temptation treats you can crush up for toppers... I think things will go more smoothly with Pip. :nod:

 

[feralvr]

LOL, well looks like you've got a drama :king: in addition to your drama rincess: !!

:spit: Oh How funny..... YES.... lucky me ..... One of each. Certainly makes life exciting

 

[feralvr]

Quick breakfast update Just about 100% Lamb today and a little extra Fortiflora and wet food needed. The cats are very, very sick of Lamb. AND Presley picked up on the "covering the stink" too He was taken back that it was LAMB AGAIN..... ...... Then he proceeded to go over to Perla's bowl and cover WHILE she was eating. I quickly shooed him away as she has ADD when it comes to eating and he almost blew her morning meal . I had to give him some GO grain free wet to get him started and to stay focused on his bowl only. I needed a lot of Fortiflora to get him to finish. Perla did get disrupted after Presley's intrusion so I had to use quite a bit of crushed Halo for the rincess: to get her to refocus on her plate. Such a project :lol3: FIVE of my cats are all 100% adjusted to Lamb now WE CAN MOVE ON!!!!!. I say five because the sixth one - is a real PAIN in momma's behind. I spent extra time making teeny little balls covered in Temptations for Pipsqueak. WELL........ he went nuts with his face in the bowl and proceeded to push around the little balls one by one and licked off all the Temptation Treat topping and did not eat ONE piece of raw. I should have video taped it - I was in AWE and how meticulous he was, quite a feat. He ended up eating 1/2 can of GO grain-free wet food. I will do what I can where Pip is concerned and just keep on tryin' :lol3: Tomorrow I start with NV Chicken. I am hopeful that Pip will enjoy that one :cross: I don't blame him - the Lamb has a gross smell to it.

Overall - I am very pleased with five of my six cats during this transition. :lol3: And now with a good plan in tact of how to do proper intros ( Carolina), I don't plan on having the same troubles I did the last two week's. :nod:

 

[carolina]

Quick breakfast update Just about 100% Lamb today and a little extra Fortiflora and wet food needed. The cats are very, very sick of Lamb. AND Presley picked up on the "covering the stink" too He was taken back that it was LAMB AGAIN..... ...... Then he proceeded to go over to Perla's bowl and cover WHILE she was eating. I quickly shooed him away as she has ADD when it comes to eating and he almost blew her morning meal . I had to give him some GO grain free wet to get him started and to stay focused on his bowl only. I needed a lot of Fortiflora to get him to finish. Perla did get disrupted after Presley's intrusion so I had to use quite a bit of crushed Halo for the rincess: to get her to refocus on her plate. Such a project :lol3: FIVE of my cats are all 100% adjusted to Lamb now WE CAN MOVE ON!!!!!. I say five because the sixth one - is a real PAIN in momma's behind. I spent extra time making teeny little balls covered in Temptations for Pipsqueak. WELL........ he went nuts with his face in the bowl and proceeded to push around the little balls one by one and licked off all the Temptation Treat topping and did not eat ONE piece of raw. I should have video taped it - I was in AWE and how meticulous he was, quite a feat. He ended up eating 1/2 can of GO grain-free wet food. I will do what I can where Pip is concerned and just keep on tryin' :lol3: Tomorrow I start with NV Chicken. I am hopeful that Pip will enjoy that one :cross: I don't blame him - the Lamb has a gross smell to it.
Overall - I am very pleased with five of my six cats during this transition. :lol3: And now with a good plan in tact of how to do proper intros ( Carolina), I don't plan on having the same troubles I did the last two week's. :nod:

congratulations on your graduation momma!
Now it is going to get a bit easier, as you can vary a bit when they get sick of the mixtures! :nod: Yey 100% raw!!!
:hobbes:

 

[ldg]

Oh Lauren, Pip is - well - a pip! :lol3: Oh that's just priceless. Sounds SO much like Lucky!

But I'm glad you've got five (mostly) on track! :bigthumb:

Thank goodness it's just one of them being PIA. :lol3:

 

[feralvr]

congratulations on your graduation momma!
Now it is going to get a bit easier, as you can vary a bit when they get sick of the mixtures! :nod: Yey 100% raw!!!
:hobbes:

WOW!!!! :lol3: THANK YOU!!!! Thanks to your detailed instructions - I am well on my way and totally understand how important proper introductions are :nod:

Oh Lauren, Pip is - well - a pip! :lol3: Oh that's just priceless. Sounds SO much like Lucky!
But I'm glad you've got five (mostly) on track! :bigthumb:
Thank goodness it's just one of them being PIA. :lol3:

RIGHT!!!! Five out of six is pretty darn good :bigthumb: It has actually been pretty easy with the other's - but I really think Lamb is out - they are SOOOOO sick of it

 

[feralvr]

OK- News Alert - ...... Pipsqueak is sick again with that virus...... He was fine this morning - but this afternoon I could not find him and he did not want to eat. I took his temp. 103.8 and he had diarrhea pretty badly today. Talked to Dr. Mark. He scolded me for not finishing the full ten day Metronidazole treatment two weeks ago. I only did it for six day because after 24 hours he was back to normal - plus I only did the first three days the full dosage and the next three days I split the dosage. :anon: I do this with myself too with medications :lol3: Not good. So he is back on I/D for a day or so and I will completely "shelve" the raw diet for Pipsqueak at this time until he is completely recovered. I am too worried about him right now and don't want to make this change in his diet yet - even though I know this is NOT the cause because he was sick before starting raw anyway. AND he was really not eating much of it - and really only the NV rabbit. BUT I don't want to overtax his system - you know what I mean. :nod: I will start him back up in a couple of week's once I know he is OVER whatever the problem is. I have to say again, and I know I mentioned this somewhere before in some thread somewhere ..... but I have forgotten how it feels to have just healthy, normal pets. It has been quite a trying last few months for me.

BUT the other FIVE are doing just incredibly well and finished up ALL of their meal tonight. Lots of Halo, Fortiflora and Temptation treat sprinkles - and they licked their plates clean of the Lamb!!! Walden and Wendall need no topping's - those two boys couldn't be any easier on their momma during this raw transision WHY is that????? It must be the terrible abuse they sustained as youngster's and they are just so grateful for any food I feed them. They literally will eat anything I put on their plates :heart3: Just love those boys - I wish the other three were not so SPOILED!!!!!! AND that last one - the sixth kitty - THE most SPOILED of them all - my baby boy PIP. :heart3:

Tomorrow I move onto the NV Chicken mixed with the Lamb or just wet food - I don't know if I will get them to eat anymore lamb EVER :bigmouth:

 

[ldg]

Oh Lauren... I remember the first two years with our babies... it seemed like endless this or that.... and let's face it - you rescued the three Ps... and then Wendall and Walden... so you've got all that "rescue kitty" stuff that just has to run its course. :nod: That said... I suspect that once you're over this hump, that'll be it. :nod: ESPECIALLY with them operating at peak performance on raw. :nod: (KNOCK WOOD lol).

And YOU ARE A VERY BAD GIRL! Your Doctor has never lectured you on this? Gary gets the lecture all the time because he simply cannot get it through his thick skull - if you don't finish the course of antibiotics, the bug just comes back with a vengeance! And this happens to him all the time. Apparently you haven't had that problem until now. :dk: Gary's thing is he feels better... and wants to "save some" for when he gets sick again. He's a big boy - I can only argue so much with him. :lol3: Antibacterials don't treat viruses anyway... but if there IS a secondary bacterial infection, stopping the course of meds before you've taken ALL of them AS PRESCRIBED just leaves you open to getting SICKER when it comes back at you. That's probably what's happened here with Pip. :rub:

Let's hope he gets over this one just as quick - only this time, give him the whole course of meds! :heart3:

Pip wasn't eating much raw yet, really, so I think sticking to canned until you're sure this is behind you is a good idea. It's not much of a step back with him. And because Metro IS an antibiotic, put him on a good probiotic, and give it that week or two after you've finished the meds before re-introducing raw to him. :rub:

for the Pipster! And a few for meowmy too. :heart3:

 

[feralvr]

Thanks, Laurie :heart3: :sun: YEP - this IS bacterial now. AND you are right - Doc said the same thing - that not finishing up the Metro might have set him up for a quick relapse. :anon: Anyway - he did have a little cough this morning and after he ate his eyes were a bit gunky. Started the Baytril prescribed by Dr. Mark. Have to nip this in the bud. Dr. Mark - is definitely on board about the raw HE even know quite a bit about the raw. He told me also to wait (as did Auntie - in her email to help me ) as you are now too :lol3: to wait to start him back on the raw until at least ten days after the antibiotics are finished and he is completely over this. There is no rush for Pipsqueak and the raw, that little by little the goal is to improve his overall quality of health. I will just start over in about three weeks, little by little..... You just have to introduce the raw very, very slowly and methodically until the cat's do develop the proper digestive enzymes :nod: Once they have that - is smooth sailing :nod: Pipsqueak had an appetite this morning - he had 1/2 can of Weruva chicken soup mixed with a little I/D. I will not keep him on the I/D only today until I see a good poop again.

OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now on to what this thread is really about RAW eating CARNIVORES My plan is to find ONE protein/brand as my baseline to use when I introduce other new proteins/brands. I am picking NV Chicken for this. Each cat devoured a small pea sized piece of the NV chicken. So I will use that as my baseline intro and I won't have to worry about not being able to get bags of that from the store. They will never run out of the NV Chicken like the rabbit. The rabbit would have been great to use a baseline - but I am completely out after today and cannot find it anywhere. Nature's Variety is saying end of February. But since rabbits are scarce right now - I need another baseline protein to use. I really like NV anyway and the cat's really love NV.

TODAY was 25% NV chicken, 25% Lamb () 50% Core. Tomorrow will be 50% NV Chicken and then 75% Sunday and Monday 100%. THEN I am home free with a new baseline protein!!! They almost did not want to eat because of the Lamb - sick of that. BUT Whole Life, Fortiflora and Temptation powder to the rescue. Everyone ate and cleaned their plates. Walden and Wendall are SO easy and need no topping's. The other three P's need some sort of topping. Perla loves the Halo or Whole Life. Works every time. SO A GREAT START TO MY DAY - ALL :happy3:

I do have a question - only out of curiosity - because I have seen this discussed here in the Raw Forum - feeding kibbles with raw meat. :lol3: I know - an oxymoron I am not doing this and my cat's are completely off kibble and eating the S&C freeze-dried now but..... here is my question..... On the Nature's Variety frozen raw meat bags they state that you can mix any of the Nature's Variety raw frozen meats with ANY other Nature's Variety product including kibbles Could someone explain why this is not a good idea to feed kibble with raw and why Nature's Variety would advertise this :dk:

 

[carolina]

I do have a question - only out of curiosity - because I have seen this discussed here in the Raw Forum - feeding kibbles with raw meat. :lol3: I know - an oxymoron I am not doing this and my cat's are completely off kibble and eating the S&C freeze-dried now but..... here is my question..... On the Nature's Variety frozen raw meat bags they state that you can mix any of the Nature's Variety raw frozen meats with ANY other Nature's Variety product including kibbles Could someone explain why this is not a good idea to feed kibble with raw and why Nature's Variety would advertise this :dk:

first of, big, big, huge vibes for Pips and hugs for momma
I am wondering if you could try Rabbit from Hare Today - the price is great, and it is locally grown (in their farm, actually), it doesn't come from China, so you'd never run out of it. It comes ready, all you need to do is add the little spoon of supplement, which they sell too.
I bought some - I will intro and let you know how it goes.....
Here is the 1lb ($4.29/lb )https://www.hare-today.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_35&products_id=114
Here is the supplement for it: https://www.hare-today.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=290
It adds $1.25 per pound..... Not bad!
Shipping is not bad AT ALL

The Goat and Rabbit is grown at their farms, and all the other meats are sourced locally, hormone and antibiotic free, and USDA inspected. This is a great place, with excellent reviews :nod:

To your question above..... Kibbles and raw do have different digestion times - specially if the kibbles have vegetables in it, so it is not a good idea to feed...... HOWEVER. A lot of introductions are done just like I did with Lucky - by putting a dollop of raw meat in the plate along with the kibbles. I did this for a month, and did not have an issue...... Sure she only ate a tiny little accidental bit of the raw, but I do not think I would have an issue otherwise either.....
Now...... Nature's variety is pathogen free, and it might make a difference there :dk: The problem with mixing the two, is that the veggies and the carbs in the kibbles digest much slower, so the theory is that the meat (along with the pathogens) stick around in the digest system for much longer, which can create an issue for the kitty. Which is why they should be fed separately :nod:

 

[feralvr]

AH HA!!!!!!!!! Yes, that is exactly true.....that the kibbles don't digest as quickly as the raw and thereby leaving raw in their digestive system longer. HMMMMM I think I might just call Nature's Variety - just because I am curious about how they will answer that. Just a curious Lauren today, I guess :lol3:

Thanks for mentioning the Hare Today rabbit and yes, let me know how your babies do on it. I would have to get a freezer first though ( oh darn.... :bigmouth - so I could stock up on my baseline :lol3: GOOD excuse now to get one - Oh LARRY....... momma needs a kitty food freezer :dash:

 

[carolina]

I would have to get a freezer first though ( oh darn.... :bigmouth - so I could stock up on my baseline :lol3: GOOD excuse now to get one - Oh LARRY....... momma needs a kitty food freezer :dash:

Nah.... Just tell Larry you want to throw a huge spring BBQ to his buddies - that might make it a little easier to convince him

 

[ldg]

Nah.... Just tell Larry you want to throw a huge spring BBQ to his buddies - that might make it a little easier to convince him

Oh that IS a good one! :bigthumb: (Of course he'd see right through you... but might appreciate the thought. :lol3: ).

EXCELLENT that Dr. Mark is on board with the raw! So what - we have these vets that "get" raw - yet never MENTION it? What's up with THAT? A liability thing???? :dk: Wait until the client discovers it on their own, THEN help them with it?


....and I hear ya on the bored with the protein. :nod: We've done 100% lamb, 100% chicken, 100% rabbit... they need something new. :lol3:

Hmmm.... better tell Gary about the BBQ I want to throw this spring...

 

[carolina]

Hmmm.... better tell Gary about the BBQ I want to throw this spring...

I think Gary is going to get a winter BBQ excuse by the looks of it

EXCELLENT that Dr. Mark is on board with the raw! So what - we have these vets that "get" raw - yet never MENTION it? What's up with THAT? A liability thing???? dontknow.gif Wait until the client discovers it on their own, THEN help them with it?

hummmmmm you know? You are right! Same here! I was never told by Dr. E either about raw...... even though he thinks that is what cats should be eating anyways :scratch:
Well...... at least I know now he will be on our side - I suppose it could be worst- there are soooooo many vets who are against it - at least we have vets who are Pro raw :nod:

 

[feralvr]

HEY I told Larry he can build his " dream man cave" if I could just have one tiny little - teeny miniscule thing..... He said - "yeah, what" and I said that it has something to do with making him LOTS of steak dinner's. Let's just leave him wondering what I mean :scratch: I guess I could share the freezer with him....... :rofl: :not:

 

[feralvr]

EXCELLENT that Dr. Mark is on board with the raw! So what - we have these vets that "get" raw - yet never MENTION it? What's up with THAT? A liability thing???? dontknow.gif Wait until the client discovers it on their own, THEN help them with it?

hummmmmm you know? You are right! Same here! I was never told by Dr. E either about raw...... even though he thinks that is what cats should be eating anyways :scratch:
Well...... at least I know now he will be on our side - I suppose it could be worst- there are soooooo many vets who are against it - at least we have vets who are Pro raw :nod:

I was totally surprised that Dr. Mark was on board with raw feeding too. He has been my vet for almost twenty years - never mentioned raw feeding. BUT we have a lot to discuss about Pipsqueaks auto-immune issues. There is a concern with this issue and I am not on board at the moment with putting him back on raw. I (and Dr. Mark) need to do more research on the subject. What impact does a raw diet have on a cat with a compromised immune system and dealing with Pathogens/bacteria? Will Pip ever have enough digestive enzymes to handle raw meat?.... A serious concern of mine. Pipsqueak had such a violent (vomiting) reaction from the raw and this went on for twenty minutes on three different occasions. I feel very bad that I put him through that. He just cannot tolerate another episode such as that - EVER. I have to be sure that a raw diet is the best thing for Pipsqueak and right now I am not sure about that ... You can bet I will be picking Dr. Mark's brain on this one and of course, your brains too.... BUT it is SO nice to find a few vet's now that are open-minded and educating themselves on the benefits of feeding raw. I think Dr. Mark is blown away at how it has improved the quality of life for my sweet, adorable Wilbur (dog) who has many different health issues than Pipsqueak. :heart3: :heart3: