80% Muscle Meat = 40% Gizzards and 40% Hearts - PMR Diet

[zoop]

I found this formula from another user on this forum and started feeding it.

These portions are very convenient for me to feed my Kittens (3 Months Old). These parts are inexpensive, well portioned and pack amazing nutrition compared to chicken breasts etc. My kittens also don't run away with them.

I am wondering what you guys thought about this? Is this good to feed long term? I have read that heart has phosphorus and you can overdose them if you feed it too much but not sure what is too much and looks like these claims are Theoretical. I would be looking to mix other muscle meats but would like to keep these as primary.

 

[roguethecat]

actually, cats don't need that much bone so you can feed up to 85% muscle meat. I didn't have any trouble yet (am feeding about 40% heart, too). If you have any doubt you'll have to get a vet do blood work and see how the phosphorus is doing.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I honestly don't know if you should be doing that or not.  Yes, hearts are considered a muscle meat, but...should they be eating that much of it, I just don't know.

And gizzards,  I thought they were mainly just to help toughen up their jaws and help clean their teeth since they are so difficult to eat since I think they are mainly made up of , well, I don't know what, but they are sure hard to eat

I just want to make sure both of you have read the nutritional links within this huge thread:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264154/raw-feeding-resources

 

[zoop]

 
I honestly don't know if you should be doing that or not.  Yes, hearts are considered a muscle meat, but...should they be eating that much of it, I just don't know.

And gizzards,  I thought they were mainly just to help toughen up their jaws and help clean their teeth since they are so difficult to eat since I think they are mainly made up of , well, I don't know what, but they are sure hard to eat

I just want to make sure both of you have read the nutritional links within this huge thread:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264154/raw-feeding-resources

Actually, I don't know why everyone says Gizzards are that hard to eat. They are chewier but my kittens who struggle with chicken feet eat gizzards at the same speed they eat hearts.

 

[roguethecat]

 
Actually, I don't know why everyone says Gizzards are that hard to eat. They are chewier but my kittens who struggle with chicken feet eat gizzards at the same speed they eat hearts.

lucky you! My crowd turned their noses up at gizzards, and they didn't even want to try chicken feet (unless attached to a chick of course)!

 

[zoop]

 
lucky you! My crowd turned their noses up at gizzards, and they didn't even want to try chicken feet (unless attached to a chick of course)!

Oh yeah, I have this issue too. If I keep Gizzards and Hearts together then my kittens will eat the hearts and leave the Gizzards. After half an hour I will bring them one by one back to their plate to finish the gizzards.

Now,  I have started to serve Gizzards first so that they finish it and then serve them hearts/liver which they find more delicious. I was doing the same with chicken feet (serve it the earliest) but even though they tried they are not able to break it down.

I also tried taking a hammer and flattening the chicken feet, after doing that I realized that the broken bones were very sharp so I never tried to feed that to the kittens.

So how have you managed to get your cats eat bone? That is one area that I feel I am struggling with. The other area is sourcing the 5% Organ, currently Chicken Liver is the only Organ I am able to find.

 

[roguethecat]

eating bone: they actually like quail. I get them at the local Asian supermarket. They also have kidneys and all kinds of interesting other stuff (tried pork brains, went so-so).

Where are you located? I'm lucky to be surrounded by all kinds of ethnic markets, where you can find all kinds of organs. If necessary, you could try ordering online  - this one is very good, has lots of stuff. 

But I also feed whole adult rats and mice that I get frozen from rodentpro. Expensive but no need to calculate and lets me feel safe to have all nutrients covered.

 

[zoop]

 
eating bone: they actually like quail. I get them at the local Asian supermarket. They also have kidneys and all kinds of interesting other stuff (tried pork brains, went so-so).

Where are you located? I'm lucky to be surrounded by all kinds of ethnic markets, where you can find all kinds of organs. If necessary, you could try ordering online  - this one is very good, has lots of stuff. 

But I also feed whole adult rats and mice that I get frozen from rodentpro. Expensive but no need to calculate and lets me feel safe to have all nutrients covered.

I am located in Houston, TX. We do have a lot of Asian and Hispanic meat markets here. I will pay them a visit. How much do you buy quail for?

 

[roguethecat]

 
I am located in Houston, TX. We do have a lot of Asian and Hispanic meat markets here. I will pay them a visit. How much do you buy quail for?

I get the package of 6 quails for around $9 or 10. It lasts a while because quail is nearly nothing but bone. You can hear a happy crunching when it's being eaten.

Asian meat markets are the best, they have any part of a pig but the squeal 

 

[mschauer]

I am located in Houston, TX. We do have a lot of Asian and Hispanic meat markets here. I will pay them a visit. How much do you buy quail for?

Hi! I'm also in Houston. Have you tried HEB? I can get beef heart, liver and kidney and sometimes sweetbreads at the one close to me. Also, are you familiar with Bones2Go? They are a store that specializes in stuff for people who feed raw to their pets. The larger part of the store is stuff for dog feeders but there is a room in the back with cat stuff. You can get pork and turkey organs as well as some exotic meats. They're in the Jersey Village area.

You do know that it is critical that kittens get sufficient calcium? Their growth can be severely affected if they don't have enough in their diet.

And, 5 lbs of chicken breast has 4831 mg of phosphorus. 5 lbs of chicken heart has 4014 mg. 5 lbs of chicken gizzards has 3352 mg. Data from the USDA nutrient database. 

 

[zoop]

@roguethecat  and @mschauer  thanks for your advice. I know Calcium is very important. I do go to HEB to get Chicken Hearts, Gizzards, and Liver. Good to know that the Phosphorus is not off the chart in Hearts. I won't be able to buy any Beef and Pork products because of some religious reasons at my household. Was looking to see if I can get chicken kidney/brain or something else. If you know where to source them from please do let me know. Would pay a visit to Bones2Go but I live in Clear Lake area so it is quite a drive, I may call them and see if they know any similar shops in my area.

I did go to the Asian market yesterday, I found some chicken bones (with neck, head, ribcage) my kittens were able to eat the chicken necks without any issues. I have fed them chicken ribcage before so I know they will be able to eat that as well.

I saw some quail and some pigeon as well but they were a little out of my price range.

I also saw Cornish Game Hen that looked good for my price range, it looked like a smaller bird (not as small as the quail tho). Do you guys think my kittens will be able to eat the bones in it?