One more thought, I don't know what the quality of the water is like where you are, maybe if not already, use artesian bottled water to try and get the best, safest bottled water, or filtered, faucet end styles are better than pitchers.
-
Too many ads? Join our community of cat lovers now to reduce ads by 90%! Click here to join for free!
5 Year Old Cat, Eyes Stay Dilated, 4 Vets, Slew Of Tests, No Diagnosis, Cat Dying
- Thread starter catman925
- Start Date
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #22
I do have filtered soft water for drinking. Our tap water is basically good for washing dishes and watering plants
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #23
UPDATE:
Okay, so here's the response back from the most recent vet visit:
- Lucky's blood pressure has been tested 4 times so far and all results have come back negative so this may rule out the blindness being caused by hypertension.
- The vet is thinking this might be either Lymphoma or FIP, both of which I know are fatal.
I know FIP is caused by coronavirus, but I'm pretty sure that with the exception of the initial breathing problems (the gurgly stuff at the very beginning), the lethargy and the appetite loss, Lucky hasn't shown any of the other symptoms for coronavirus. No sneezing, no eye discharge or anything wrong with the eyes beyond the dilation (seems all investigation to his eyes have come back normal), no diarrhea or other GI symptoms, not bloated stomach, etc. One thing though on this is that around the same time I received 3 kittens for fostering that showed nearly identical breathing problems, most specifically the gurgle. They were diagnosed with coronavirus. They were, however small kittens (app 5wks) and they were treated with Azithromiacine (no effect), then a Convenia injection (possible effect), and eventually their immune system kicked in good gear and they all pulled out of it and were adopted out. I know coronavirus is contagious (even airborne I've seen), but it seems it is also fairly ubiquitous with most cats getting it some time in their life but their immune systems usually take care of it. The kittens were isolated during their treatment and had never stepped foot outside of my house (I, myself, especially when dealing with contagious diseases, am fairly good with hygiene and contamination protocols, but yes there is of course always a chance). However, these kittens had it when they first got here and I believe Lucky's symptoms happened almost simultaneously so it's probable their sicknesses aren't related given gestation periods etc.
- The vet has prescribed a new medication that I don't have the name of at the moment. The vet has also stopped prescribing the appetite enhancer because this new medication is supposed to help with the appetite. I'll post the name once I find out what it is.
After some initial research, turns out that both FIP and lymphoma CAN cause blindness in cats, so these could be possible culprits that could cover all the symptoms present.
Below are the cytology notes from the specialist. Most is way over my head, but if there are some vets among you or you recognize some of the wording and have any ideas or suggestions, please let me know. I'm at this point allowing more knowledgeable minds to make the decisions and recommendations. If this is lymphoma or FIP, there's really not much we can really do beyond trying to make Lucky as comfortable as possible.
Let me know if anything jumps out at you on the report or you think of some other possible ideas.
Thank you very very much with everything so far
-Art
(reproduced verbatim)
.........................
CYTOLOGY
-CLINICAL INFORMATION
History of azotemia, hyperglobulinemia, hypoechoic left renal cortical lesion and subcapsular fluid. Rule out lymphoma, FIP.
SOURCE
6 slides from left kidney
DESCRIPTION/MICROSCOPIC FINDINGS/COMMENTS:
MICROSCOPIC DESCRIPTION: The slides are of fairly low to moderate cellularity and contains several lysed cells on a proteinaceous, hemodilute background. Many of the lysed cells have fairly large nuclei. The intact cellularity consists of small, mature lymphocytes with an increase in macrophages as well as occasional reactive fibroblasts and neutrophils, although neutrophils may be primarily from hemodilution. On one slide, in particular, there are focal areas with many lysed cells that are associated with partially intact discrete cells that are round to nearly spindloid. They have moderately to deeply basophilic cytoplasm, which is lightly vacuolated and round nuclei with open, immature chromatin and prominent nucleoli. These cells appear most consistent with a large, immature lymphocytes. They are associated with several small, mature lymphocytes as well as macrophages and mesenchymal cells that may be reactive fibroblasts.
MICROSCOPIC FINDINGS: FEW LARGE IMMATURE LYMPHOCYTES: MIXED CELL
INFLAMMATION WITH MESENCHYMAL PROLIFERATION: MANY LYSED CELLS
COMMENTS: Unfortunately, all slides contain many lysed cells and their origins are unclear, but they often have fairly large, somewhat irregular nuclei. In focal areas, there are occasional large, immature lymphocytes that raise concern for lymphoma; however, they are accompanied by several small, mature lymphocytes, macrophages, and mesenchymal cells that I suspect are reactive fibroblasts. FIP is possible, but typically this causes an inflammatory response comprised mostly of neutrophils and macrophages rather than lymphocytes.
Additional diagnostics are recommended to rule out lymphoma. PARR testing may be performed on the submitted slides (the most cellular slide has been marked with two large black dots), but it is unclear if the intact cellularity is high enough for a definitive result with PARR. Biopsy and histologic evaluation may be best for definitive diagnosis in this case, if possible.
Also consider re-aspiration in an attempt to obtain a higher proportion of intact cells (neoplastic lymphocytes tend to be quite fragile). Re-sampling for cytology can be pursued within the next 30 days for a reduced fee. Please request test code xxxxx and refer to this accession number for appropriate billing.
PATHOLOGIST:
XXXXXXXX
...................................
If you know how to read that report, let me know your thoughts if you have some suggestions.
Unrelated: while typing this out, I kept thinking, "Man, people in the medical fields MUST have a whole different set of spell-checkers than we mortals have." -but my newest favorite word now has got to be "nucleoli"
thanks again for your time and help
-Art
Okay, so here's the response back from the most recent vet visit:
- Lucky's blood pressure has been tested 4 times so far and all results have come back negative so this may rule out the blindness being caused by hypertension.
- The vet is thinking this might be either Lymphoma or FIP, both of which I know are fatal.
I know FIP is caused by coronavirus, but I'm pretty sure that with the exception of the initial breathing problems (the gurgly stuff at the very beginning), the lethargy and the appetite loss, Lucky hasn't shown any of the other symptoms for coronavirus. No sneezing, no eye discharge or anything wrong with the eyes beyond the dilation (seems all investigation to his eyes have come back normal), no diarrhea or other GI symptoms, not bloated stomach, etc. One thing though on this is that around the same time I received 3 kittens for fostering that showed nearly identical breathing problems, most specifically the gurgle. They were diagnosed with coronavirus. They were, however small kittens (app 5wks) and they were treated with Azithromiacine (no effect), then a Convenia injection (possible effect), and eventually their immune system kicked in good gear and they all pulled out of it and were adopted out. I know coronavirus is contagious (even airborne I've seen), but it seems it is also fairly ubiquitous with most cats getting it some time in their life but their immune systems usually take care of it. The kittens were isolated during their treatment and had never stepped foot outside of my house (I, myself, especially when dealing with contagious diseases, am fairly good with hygiene and contamination protocols, but yes there is of course always a chance). However, these kittens had it when they first got here and I believe Lucky's symptoms happened almost simultaneously so it's probable their sicknesses aren't related given gestation periods etc.
- The vet has prescribed a new medication that I don't have the name of at the moment. The vet has also stopped prescribing the appetite enhancer because this new medication is supposed to help with the appetite. I'll post the name once I find out what it is.
After some initial research, turns out that both FIP and lymphoma CAN cause blindness in cats, so these could be possible culprits that could cover all the symptoms present.
Below are the cytology notes from the specialist. Most is way over my head, but if there are some vets among you or you recognize some of the wording and have any ideas or suggestions, please let me know. I'm at this point allowing more knowledgeable minds to make the decisions and recommendations. If this is lymphoma or FIP, there's really not much we can really do beyond trying to make Lucky as comfortable as possible.
Let me know if anything jumps out at you on the report or you think of some other possible ideas.
Thank you very very much with everything so far
-Art
(reproduced verbatim)
.........................
CYTOLOGY
-CLINICAL INFORMATION
History of azotemia, hyperglobulinemia, hypoechoic left renal cortical lesion and subcapsular fluid. Rule out lymphoma, FIP.
SOURCE
6 slides from left kidney
DESCRIPTION/MICROSCOPIC FINDINGS/COMMENTS:
MICROSCOPIC DESCRIPTION: The slides are of fairly low to moderate cellularity and contains several lysed cells on a proteinaceous, hemodilute background. Many of the lysed cells have fairly large nuclei. The intact cellularity consists of small, mature lymphocytes with an increase in macrophages as well as occasional reactive fibroblasts and neutrophils, although neutrophils may be primarily from hemodilution. On one slide, in particular, there are focal areas with many lysed cells that are associated with partially intact discrete cells that are round to nearly spindloid. They have moderately to deeply basophilic cytoplasm, which is lightly vacuolated and round nuclei with open, immature chromatin and prominent nucleoli. These cells appear most consistent with a large, immature lymphocytes. They are associated with several small, mature lymphocytes as well as macrophages and mesenchymal cells that may be reactive fibroblasts.
MICROSCOPIC FINDINGS: FEW LARGE IMMATURE LYMPHOCYTES: MIXED CELL
INFLAMMATION WITH MESENCHYMAL PROLIFERATION: MANY LYSED CELLS
COMMENTS: Unfortunately, all slides contain many lysed cells and their origins are unclear, but they often have fairly large, somewhat irregular nuclei. In focal areas, there are occasional large, immature lymphocytes that raise concern for lymphoma; however, they are accompanied by several small, mature lymphocytes, macrophages, and mesenchymal cells that I suspect are reactive fibroblasts. FIP is possible, but typically this causes an inflammatory response comprised mostly of neutrophils and macrophages rather than lymphocytes.
Additional diagnostics are recommended to rule out lymphoma. PARR testing may be performed on the submitted slides (the most cellular slide has been marked with two large black dots), but it is unclear if the intact cellularity is high enough for a definitive result with PARR. Biopsy and histologic evaluation may be best for definitive diagnosis in this case, if possible.
Also consider re-aspiration in an attempt to obtain a higher proportion of intact cells (neoplastic lymphocytes tend to be quite fragile). Re-sampling for cytology can be pursued within the next 30 days for a reduced fee. Please request test code xxxxx and refer to this accession number for appropriate billing.
PATHOLOGIST:
XXXXXXXX
...................................
If you know how to read that report, let me know your thoughts if you have some suggestions.
Unrelated: while typing this out, I kept thinking, "Man, people in the medical fields MUST have a whole different set of spell-checkers than we mortals have."
-but my newest favorite word now has got to be "nucleoli" thanks again for your time and help
-Art
Last edited:
....nucleoli, ....lordy
I almost went into medical transcription at one point, whew.
I don't have any knowledge, but trying to help keep your thread towards the top and visible.
. 
I almost went into medical transcription at one point, whew.
I don't have any knowledge, but trying to help keep your thread towards the top and visible.
. 
I don't have enough experience or vocabulary to understand and comment on most of the report, so I concentrated on the comments:
Margret
A very important key word there is "however." Let me repeat the sentence where that word appears:
Basically, to paraphrase, this sentence is saying
The next sentence says:
Taking these two sentences together we get:
It appears that further testing is needed, and the lab has suggested specific tests that may clarify matters.
Margret
So sorry to hear the news. I am a scientist, but not in a medical field. I don't understand the details, but it sounds like they suspect lymphoma over FIP and just can't be sure without further testing. Whether to do that is totally personal. She may want to keep testing to get a firm answer, or maybe they are too invasive/expensive.
No matter what, it looks like it will be a tough road. I'm glad your neighbor and her cat have you in their corner.
No matter what, it looks like it will be a tough road. I'm glad your neighbor and her cat have you in their corner.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #27
thank youSo sorry to hear the news. I am a scientist, but not in a medical field. I don't understand the details, but it sounds like they suspect lymphoma over FIP and just can't be sure without further testing. Whether to do that is totally personal. She may want to keep testing to get a firm answer, or maybe they are too invasive/expensive.
No matter what, it looks like it will be a tough road. I'm glad your neighbor and her cat have you in their corner.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #29
I'm not sure but see my next response below.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #30
has anyone ever experienced heavy gurgly breathing from a cat diagnosed with coronavirus (noise from sinuses, not from lungs)?
I ask because about the same time that Lucky had his breathing problems, I had 3 new kittens (isolated in my bathroom) that had totally identical gurgly breathing and they were diagnosed with coronavirus (although the diagnosing vet never indicated the gurgly breathing was related). FIP is caused by a mutation of the coronavirus. Given the close timing of the occurrences, my first inclination is that they are unrelated because of gestation periods. I think I remember that Lucky may have had symptoms before I got the kittens in and I know they had their symptoms already upon arriving.
I do however live right next door to where Lucky lives and he was indoor/outdoor at that time. I do have a few adoptions leftover cats that live on my back patio (they hate being inside because of the constant influx of new cats/kittens all the time and they're very much more content outside) and my neighbor always feeds everyday any strays (or neighbor cats) that show up on her porch (including my outside cats). I know Lucky has had a couple tussles with some of my outside cats in the past as well. My outside cats never had contact with the sick kittens, but they of course did have contact with me.
So, given all this, I'm trying to discern if it's a possibility that the illnesses could be related. But I'm hoping they're not of course.
I ask because about the same time that Lucky had his breathing problems, I had 3 new kittens (isolated in my bathroom) that had totally identical gurgly breathing and they were diagnosed with coronavirus (although the diagnosing vet never indicated the gurgly breathing was related). FIP is caused by a mutation of the coronavirus. Given the close timing of the occurrences, my first inclination is that they are unrelated because of gestation periods. I think I remember that Lucky may have had symptoms before I got the kittens in and I know they had their symptoms already upon arriving.
I do however live right next door to where Lucky lives and he was indoor/outdoor at that time. I do have a few adoptions leftover cats that live on my back patio (they hate being inside because of the constant influx of new cats/kittens all the time and they're very much more content outside) and my neighbor always feeds everyday any strays (or neighbor cats) that show up on her porch (including my outside cats). I know Lucky has had a couple tussles with some of my outside cats in the past as well. My outside cats never had contact with the sick kittens, but they of course did have contact with me.
So, given all this, I'm trying to discern if it's a possibility that the illnesses could be related. But I'm hoping they're not of course.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #31
yes, that's kind of what I gleaned from it as well. This is also the gist of what my neighbor was told. Basically, it's inconclusive at this time.
Mostly hoping someone with experience with this might see either an error or maybe something the pathologist could have suggested more or some other test or technique that could be tried.
Pretty sure what's already there is what's the best recommendation and so it's for my neighbor to decide on the next step. Just making sure nothing's being missed.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #32
just want to give an update on Lucky. The owner decided to put him down. From the info from the vets and the lab tests, it may well have been FIP or lymphoma. His quality of life wasn't good and if he had one of these fatal diseases, it may have been the better decision.
Thank you for all your help and kind support. It's forums and folks like you that make the internet sing.
-Art
Thank you for all your help and kind support. It's forums and folks like you that make the internet sing.
-Art
Oh, thank you so very very much for the update.
RIP sweetheart, baby Lucky, you were so loved and your pawprints will be on a heart forever!
RIP sweetheart, baby Lucky, you were so loved and your pawprints will be on a heart forever!
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2016
- Messages
- 5,948
- Purraise
- 14,439
I'm so sorry! But if his quality of life faded that can be the tell tale sign even if no one is sure what's wrong, as I'm sure something that would have been easy to treat/fix would have been much easier to diagnose.just want to give an update on Lucky. The owner decided to put him down. From the info from the vets and the lab tests, it may well have been FIP or lymphoma. His quality of life wasn't good and if he had one of these fatal diseases, it may have been the better decision.
Thank you for all your help and kind support. It's forums and folks like you that make the internet sing.
-Art
This was not even your cat, yet to reached out for help or ideas or experience despite that fact, and also to help his owner..people like you make the world sing, as well!
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2017
- Messages
- 3,905
- Purraise
- 4,346
I so hope your girl continues to do well and improve. Fingers crossed for a wonderful vet visit tomorrow! 
Do keep us updated, and thank you for sharing all of your information!
Do keep us updated, and thank you for sharing all of your information!
This is heart breaking. Lucky was so young. I’m so very sorry.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2017
- Messages
- 3,905
- Purraise
- 4,346
I am so sorry about Lucky! So sorry for your loss! Sweet baby.
Condolences to all of Lucky's kinfolk- he certainly was loved! There is so much valuable information in this thread that I want to keep it at the forefront. Many concerned cat guardians will benefit and that is a wonderful tribute to Lucky.
