4 Week Old Kittens, Weaning And Litterbox Issues, And Is Mom Pregnant Again?

[Azalea]

Aw that's so sweet
Everybody has been so helpful, and I'll definitely write again if anything else comes up, and when I find out if mom's pregnant, and what will happen.
I'm not entirely sure how to thank you, so, um, here are some kitten pictures? XD

This is Tulipe, the little 'runt'.

Jacinthe, the avid explorer

Nénuphar, the only male

Dahlia, who recently became the biggest one of the group

And Pivoine, who is a deceptively angelic ball of grey fluff, but actually the biggest troublemaker of all of them!

And a nice picture of mom, because I have posted nothing but unflattering pictures of her so far, but she is actually gorgeous. The rescue calls her Azalée, but if I get to keep her I'm thinking either Eliza, Cassie, or Callie

 

[Sarthur2]

Mom is just gorgeous! The kittens are beautiful too!

We'll look forward to your next update!

 

[Azalea]

Thought I'd update because I currently have a kitten sleeping on my stomach, so of course I can't get up to do anything else
The people from the rescue came over to check on her again. Her belly's gone down a bit, although it's still big, so we're now leaning towards it being worms (I'm relieved & crossing my fingers because they think she's too small to stay healthy during a second pregnancy), and planning on a 3rd deworming sometime in the future. The wound that was bleeding last time is starting to heal, but the one in the middle that was almost closed has opened up again and looks pretty ugly (not infected, just really raw looking), we think that they get itchy when they're almost done healing and so she keeps on opening them up again and again. She has a vet appointment Friday, hopefully for antibiotics and a cream (I think they mentioned corticoïdes?) for her neck, as well as to check on her belly for pregnancy, and hopefully we'll have a better idea of her health and how old she actually is.

I have a question about socializing the kittens, if it isn't to much of a bother (I'm sorry, I know I ask too many questions!) I know that this period of time is a critical period for learning and I should expose them to the sort of things they'll be living with later. Different foods, strangers, touching paws and ears, checking teeth, being in a carrier, being petted, not playing with hands, noises... Is there anything I'm missing? Should I given them a bath (when they're a bit older) for example, or trim their claws, just to get them used to it? Are routines important at this age? (I'm a college student and tend to pull all nighters...)
I'm starting to invite friends over, but though those friends love cats, they tend to want to kiss, hold, hug, scruff, pet bellies, grab at them, touch tails, reenact that scene from the lion king, and generally do things I don't think adult cats like much... Bad idea? I wouldn't encourage them to do it to mom, but for the little ones, is it a good thing so they get used to it when they're young?

And what can I use for positive reinforcement? Only three of them have started wet food, and only sporadically, so treats aren't really in the picture yet, and neither are toys (they've barely started understanding the concept of toys). I'm trying to apply the idea of making all their experiences with humans positive ones, but it's hard to balance that with exposure+habituation to unpleasant things. Like if they are uncomfortable with the vacuum cleaner, how do I relax them/turn it into a positive experience?

We're making a lot of progress with the litterbox (not perfect yet but for just a few days there's been a huge improvement)! They've all been gaining weight really well, and the rescue people says they look very healthy, so I want to know if they're anything I can do on the socialization side of things. I basically really just want to give them the best possible chance at being comfortable with people and living with them, and not having behavior issues, and finding a good family!

 

[Sarthur2]

You can trim just the tips of their claws. Mom will appreciate this when they nurse!

Friends can hold the kittens and play a little with them, but nothing rough at all. They are babies and need gentle interaction.

Vacuum cleaner will scare them to death! Please put them in the bathroom with door closed if you vacuum.

In general, they just need to play with mom and each other and toys right now, and learn their environment and the people around them. No need to overdo it.

Glad mom is partially healing and will be seeing a vet this week. I think you meant cortico-steroids. They would help along with antibiotics.

Maybe mom is losing her pregnancy weight and getting her figure back. I doubt she still has worms.

 

[Azalea]

So she's back from the vet's. She's not pregnant! So that's great, I'm super happy. They still think her belly was because of either worms or digestive issues, and not pregnancy weight (because she was actually underweight when she arrived). I wonder if maybe she just gorged herself too much after living with food insecurity for a long time?
They found that the reason her neck hadn't healed for so long was because the was quite a large infected abscess hidden underneath, that they couldn't see or feel until they started treating it. She got an injection and some antibiotics for it, and it should be fine!
Yes I meant corticosteroids, got it mixed up with French

As for the kittens, I am very gentle with them. I'm actually afraid of under doing it! I live alone, in a very quiet and calm neighborhood. And I'm generally a very quiet and calm person. I also don't watch tv, or listen to the radio or loud music, or have parties... I spent the past weeks making mom comfortable, no loud noises or sudden movements... And my vacuum is old and heavy and awkward, so I prefer brooms. I was just afraid because they might be adopted into large or noisy families, and they would not be used to it! The people from the rescue even told me the often carry kittens high in the air, and stuff like that, to prepare them for potentially living with kids. It's like they say that kittens who don't see humans before 8 weeks will be more afraid of them, and I was afraid of that happening for the vacuum cleaner or other household activities.
So it's not so much that I wanted to vacuum, as I wanted to teach them not to be afraid of the vacuum, like you would do with a human with a phobia. And I dont want to lock them in the bathroom when I do, because then they would have a negative association with it. The only issue is that while I know how exposure, behavior modification, and so on, works for humans, it's harder to translate to cats, I'm not familiar with their developmental stages and I can't ask them to rate their anxiety level or practice deep breathing! But maybe that's more of a question for the cat behavior forum? XD

 

[Sarthur2]

It's a relief that she is not pregnant. So glad her neck is being treated and can heal now. She will feel better for it.

 

[Azalea]

I wanted to say thanks for listening to my first time foster mom worries! Also, mama cat is doing very well, her wound has closed up now! There's just a little pink left. Since she started on antibiotics she's been more energetic. She's started playing with toys (although that might also be her hunting for kittens instincts kicking in?), being even more affectionate with me, and climbing on high surfaces and exploring (she used to stick to the floor), and I'm really happy about that! We've also started clicker training, and it's going super well.

I'm writing also about her kittens... They are a little over 6 weeks old now, and still don't consistently use the litter box. I have found about 7 or 8 places in the appartement where they like to pee and poo, but I am always finding new ones. It's a one room appartement + bathroom and hall, no bedroom, so it's very small. I already have a full size litterbox for mom that they sometimes use, plus 3 kitten litter boxes (so one box per corner of the room), plus one box in the bathroom. Essentially there is over one box every 5m2.
I've tried cleaning them perfectly twice a day, I've also tried leaving them dirty for several days, and everything in between. I wash the floors with white vinegar or enzyme cleaner whenever I find an accident. I use non clumping wood chips. I don't stress them, I decided to wait a while to introduce them to strangers or noises. So their environment is very calm.
They do use the boxes regularly, so they know how to do it. I put them in after meals, but they also go by themselves. But they also pee and poo on every bit of paper on the floor, every rug or bathmat or cushion, in their beds, every cardboard box, on the curtains, in my laundry basket, in the corners, under the couch, in the corner, next to the litterbox, on the bookshelves... I've had to throw out a dozen books already, several important papers, and because I don't have a dryer, I can't keep up with the laundry anymore. I can't open the window (it's floor length and there are no screens, so they could escape) to air the place out, plus we are in the middle of a heatwave. The smell is driving me nuts.
Is this normal? Please tell me they will grow out of it? Are there not enough boxes still? What else can I do now?

 

[Sarthur2]

Mama has energy because she feels so much better now! Good to hear!

Are you putting the kittens in the boxes before and after meals?

Try spreading doggie pee pads on the floor.

Pick up all rugs and bath mats, move books and papers.

Can you turn on the A/C to get some ventilation for a bit?

Since your living space is small, and you have pans everywhere, they should have this mastered soon.

Have you tried cat attract litter?

 

[Azalea]

I try to put them before and after meals, but because they all eat at different times, it's hard! Plus I've never once had them actually use the litterbox after I put them in, they really have a mind of their own. The books and papers they pee on were already put away, they just made them fall from my desk and then peed on them. Except for the bookshelf they decided to use as a litterbox.
I will try to pick up all the rugs, maybe they do find the texture attractive?

I had no idea doggie pee pads were a thing, thank you sooooo much thats looks like a great solution!

I don't have AC, unfortunately. I haven't seen any of them panting or looking hot yet, thought. (And I leave out lots of fresh water and bone broth popsicles and wipe them down with damp towels when it gets really super hot.)

I don't know where to find cat attract litter. The rescue suggested I put a drop of bleach in the boxes because they supposedly like the smell, but I don't want to, as I worry about them getting it on themselves and then licking it...

 

[Azalea]

So the dogs pee pads have helped, and there has been (some) improvement (I hope).

But now I have another question. I volunteered to go help TNR the remaining cats from the site my cats came from. I ended up meeting mama cat's mother (she was an abandoned pet) one of her daughters (totally unsociable but with the same gorgeous blue eyes), and three of her grandchildren. Her grandchildren are about a week older than her current kittens, so about 8 weeks. They've been separated from their mother who is feral. This may be slightly masochistic , but I was wondering if I should volunteer to foster them too. They're from the same site, so there would be less concerned for the quarantine (although they could stay in my bathroom if need be) and the kittens are about the same age as mine. Plus those kittens were without human contact for their first 8 weeks, and it might do them good to be around a sociable family. And the main reason I'm considering volunteering is that they currently have about three or four litters of kittens still looking for foster homes, and more to come, and they're having to decline to help new kittens because of this issue.
How likely is it that mama cat would it take them under her wing ? Is the fact that they are related going to help ? Or is this a bad idea ? I haven't volunteered yet, and don't know what the rescue would say, I'm just considering my options right now. Thanks!

 

[Sarthur2]

I think it's a great idea for the reasons you stated!

 

[Azalea]

Unfortunately that didn't end up happening- the rescue decided not to risk any kind of illness, so they're in quarantine for now. The two girls are surprisingly friendly, but the boy's still a little shy.

Anyways, mine are 2 months now, it's getting harder and harder to weigh them but they've all passed the kilo mark. They've learned how to use the litter box, although I now have 6 spare bags of different types of litter that they don't like to donate They're all healthy, friendly, and growing well, although they scare me a lot (by climbing the curtains all the way to the ceiling for example ). Now that they're two months they're available for reservation and adoption visits (although no leaving mom until 3 months), and one of them has found a family already! I can't believe how much they've grown!

 

[Azalea]

(accidental double post, so I thought I'd replace it with some more pictures )

 

[Sarthur2]

They really do grow fast!