2 cats with Behavior issues-starting to consider euthanasia

[just mike]

Originally Posted by onthethird

Okay, just returned from PetSmart after spending a small fortune on a stockpile of Cat Attract and a variety of new playthings for the kitties. I'm also making a point to devote some very specific "pet" time to each as they seem int he mood for it-I do admit I get a little busy and they have not been getting the love they used to.

I'm very thankful for the encouragement...I had not tried that litter before, is it new? i thought I had tried it all a couple years ago!

Wish me luck!

The litter is not new but it's not widely publicized. I've heard really good things about it and I'm sending all the positive vibes I can your way. You are in a terrible situation right now and I sure don't envy you. From your OP it sounds like you've tried about everything else. I don't recall but have you consulted with a feline behaviorist? You might try to find someone that is a behaviorist in your area to visit the home and make an evaluation. Best of luck and wishes to you and your family.

 

[onthethird]

Wow...they aren't kidding about the "Cat Attract"! Skipper was in there using the litterbox before I could finish putting the litter bag away!

 

[feralvr]

Go Skipper

. Just want to send more positive thoughts and prayers your way that things can be turned around, somehow. I so agree that they need to have some stability and extra time with you doting on them. I know you are busy and this is hard to do, but it might help at this point to try to make them feel very special. We are here to support you no matter what

.

OH, wanted to mention about the wiggling/shaking tail behavior. Some cats, males and females alike, will do this behavior as a greeting or as excitement. It is NOT spraying and no urine comes out while they do this. It is just part of some cats body language repertoire

. My Perkins does this ALL the time.....

 

[onthethird]

Originally Posted by Feralvr

Go Skipper

. Just want to send more positive thoughts and prayers your way that things can be turned around, somehow. I so agree that they need to have some stability and extra time with you doting on them. I know you are busy and this is hard to do, but it might help at this point to try to make them feel very special. We are here to support you no matter what

.

OH, wanted to mention about the wiggling/shaking tail behavior. Some cats, males and females alike, will do this behavior as a greeting or as excitement. It is NOT spraying and no urine comes out while they do this. It is just part of some cats body language repertoire

. My Perkins does this ALL the time.....

Really? I didn't know that...it looks exactly like when he use to spray, he kindof half turns his bootie towards the wall and shakes his tail at it. Once when he was about 2 he did that to me and sprayed me right in the side of my face! Guess I must have smelled too much like other animals from working at the vet all day and he was marking me as his!

 

[ligwa]

I'm just seeing this thread for the first time. I'm so very glad you have decided to give it a new try. I know how frustrating this all is. I think I have your two cats in one with mine. Don't think I haven't thought about putting him down, but after having to do that last summer with my other kitty, I know I could never do it. It's the frustration talking, and I understand that.

You're doing everything you can do. I know first hand that my guy gets bent out of shape if he sees my other cat on my lap. I have to make sure he gets just as much attention even though my lap isn't the place he wants to be. He just wants to know he's important too.

Good luck to you. I really hope it all works out. You've had these two for a long time. It would be a shame not to be able to keep them.

 

[newfosterparent]

I will definitely have to pick up the attractant myself.

Until they discontinued it, Pet Valu used to sell Fresh4Life training formula, and my cat was good at using the box then.

When they discontinued it and I couldn't get it, he didn't always use it.

My cat doesn't spray, only pees where ever he wants to, but not always.

I also use a self cleaning litterbox, it works wonders around here.

 

[auntie crazy]

First, welcome to TCS!

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this!

I've rescued and rehabbed many different animals for many years, but the last six or so I've worked exclusively with cats, and I've a few suggestions for you:

1) You said you were using Feliway... that stuff works what sometimes looks like miracles - but only if the concentration is high enough. You should have one plugin per average-sized room (Amazon.com sells multi-packs at GREAT prices).

2) How and when did you rule out urinary-tract issues? Cats can be sick for years with UTI-related issues and these will not only cause inappropriate elimination, they will also effect feline behavior. Nobody has a happy face when they're in constant pain, you know?

3) Food can sometimes have an impact on feline behavior (and definitely affects UTI health). It might be possible that some of the inappropriate elimination and anxiety-attributed behaviors may be related to your cats' diet and feeding regimen. Are you feeding at least three times a day? Cats evolved to eat many small meals a day and have a difficult time when their meals are spread too far apart; they can and do get irritated and quick to swat when they're hungry. (Sometimes, their tummies will even get so acidic, they'll vomit; occasionally, that will put them off food altogether and create a spiraling mess, but I don't see any evidence of that in your post.)

I also recommend that you begin feeding a grain-free canned diet if you are not already. Natural Balance, Evo 95% Meats, Wellness and many more have grain-free varieties. Grain, especially corn, is a high-allergen product, and has no place in a cat's diet - this could easily be the cause of the obsessive fur-licking behavior.

4) Pick up a book on kitty behavior. It will help you understand what's going on in your cat's minds. "Starting from Scratch: How to Correct Behavior Problems in Your Adult Cat" by Pam Johnson-Bennett is currently on sale for ~$10 on Amazon and is a great choice, as is her "Think Like a Cat: How to Raise a Well-Adjusted Cat--Not a Sour Puss". Cats have a very rich vocabulary, but pretty much all of their conversations are conducted through body language. Both of these books will help you recognize and identify feline communication.

In addition, these books will help you understand the stress your cats have been through with the massive changes in their family life and, even more importantly, give you tips to help them cope with that stress.

5) Toys! Da-Bird is a grat choice. I've never seen a cat who could resist it. Playing with your cats will build trust between you, burn off any energy they may have built up (cats, after all, are meant to expend energy hunting every single day of their lives), and may help them become more contented and happy in a way I think they're missing right now.

6) "Safety Zones" Is there any place up high where your cats can get to that would constitute a safe zone for them? If not, can you purchase a kitty tree or two or a wall shelf just for them? If they're always down low, they may constantly be feeling vulnerable and edgy, with no opportunity to relax. If this is the case with Kahlua, it could be she's feeling threatened by all the activity in the house and is attacking out of self-defense, in a "preemptive strike" sort of strategy.

A final thought. Declawed cats are known to have issues, sadly. They are, however, pretty helpless without their claws. In addition, being outside is yet another change for them to deal with, and includes a loss of contact and bonding with you. If at all possible, please bring them back inside.

<<<<<hugs>>>>>

I hope some of this helps you and your family, both two- and four-legged!

AC

 

[lauren_miller]

I'm really glad you've decided to give them another chance, that being said if it doesn't work and you decide to euthanize I want you to know that you have my full support. I think it would be cruel at their age to put them in a shelter or sanctuary environment, better to let them go with dignity than to leave them and have them wondering where you went or what they did to deserve being dumped at the shelter or sanctuary. Sanctuaries are not as pleasant as some people believe them to be.

 

[onthethird]

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

First, welcome to TCS!

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this!

I've rescued and rehabbed many different animals for many years, but the last six or so I've worked exclusively with cats, and I've a few suggestions for you:

1) You said you were using Feliway... that stuff works what sometimes looks like miracles - but only if the concentration is high enough. You should have one plugin per average-sized room (Amazon.com sells multi-packs at GREAT prices).

2) How and when did you rule out urinary-tract issues? Cats can be sick for years with UTI-related issues and these will not only cause inappropriate elimination, they will also effect feline behavior. Nobody has a happy face when they're in constant pain, you know?

3) Food can sometimes have an impact on feline behavior (and definitely affects UTI health). It might be possible that some of the inappropriate elimination and anxiety-attributed behaviors may be related to your cats' diet and feeding regimen. Are you feeding at least three times a day? Cats evolved to eat many small meals a day and have a difficult time when their meals are spread too far apart; they can and do get irritated and quick to swat when they're hungry. (Sometimes, their tummies will even get so acidic, they'll vomit; occasionally, that will put them off food altogether and create a spiraling mess, but I don't see any evidence of that in your post.)

I also recommend that you begin feeding a grain-free canned diet if you are not already. Natural Balance, Evo 95% Meats, Wellness and many more have grain-free varieties. Grain, especially corn, is a high-allergen product, and has no place in a cat's diet - this could easily be the cause of the obsessive fur-licking behavior.

4) Pick up a book on kitty behavior. It will help you understand what's going on in your cat's minds. "Starting from Scratch: How to Correct Behavior Problems in Your Adult Cat" by Pam Johnson-Bennett is currently on sale for ~$10 on Amazon and is a great choice, as is her "Think Like a Cat: How to Raise a Well-Adjusted Cat--Not a Sour Puss". Cats have a very rich vocabulary, but pretty much all of their conversations are conducted through body language. Both of these books will help you recognize and identify feline communication.

In addition, these books will help you understand the stress your cats have been through with the massive changes in their family life and, even more importantly, give you tips to help them cope with that stress.

5) Toys! Da-Bird is a grat choice. I've never seen a cat who could resist it. Playing with your cats will build trust between you, burn off any energy they may have built up (cats, after all, are meant to expend energy hunting every single day of their lives), and may help them become more contented and happy in a way I think they're missing right now.

6) "Safety Zones" Is there any place up high where your cats can get to that would constitute a safe zone for them? If not, can you purchase a kitty tree or two or a wall shelf just for them? If they're always down low, they may constantly be feeling vulnerable and edgy, with no opportunity to relax. If this is the case with Kahlua, it could be she's feeling threatened by all the activity in the house and is attacking out of self-defense, in a "preemptive strike" sort of strategy.

A final thought. Declawed cats are known to have issues, sadly. They are, however, pretty helpless without their claws. In addition, being outside is yet another change for them to deal with, and includes a loss of contact and bonding with you. If at all possible, please bring them back inside.

<<<<<hugs>>>>>

I hope some of this helps you and your family, both two- and four-legged!

AC

Lots of good info/ideas here!

The feliway we use an average of one per 300 sq feet. Changed out monthly. There is a huge noticeable difference in Skipper's licking behaviors if I don't use it, I haven't noticed as much with his urinating/litter box behavior. I also use the spray in areas where he spends more time or areas where he seems stressed.

I have ruled out UTI about 6 times over his 12 years, last time being a little over a year ago. I have never tested Kahlua for it because I have not noticed any urinary related issues and she must be sedated for veterinary exams the past few years and at her age I prefer not to sedate her unless necessary.

They free-feed dry food with occasional cans of wet. Kahlua has very bad teeth and I was told to stop wet food when she was a kitten. I will do some more research into the grain free diets and wet vs. dry as this is not something I had really thought might be contributing, they have been on the same brand of food for years. Good idea though!

We just bought a bunch of toys yesterday and they did play (for about five minutes) but at least there are new things to spark their interest. They are older, play in spurts and then sleep!

As for Safety Zones, we have a living room that the boys are not allowed to play in so that area is always available to them, the children also do not go upstairs to play during the day (in the bedrooms) so they have a haven there as well. They prefer my bedroom as my boys are not allowed to play in there either. I am a little concerned that Kahlua thinks this is "her" area though and thats why she bit me the other day when I was reading in bed.

Also, as another bit of info, I realized last week that Skipper seems to be having some trouble movement-wise. He seems to not be able to get up the stairs easily so I was sure to move his favorite toys, etc downstairs. I have to keep their food up on a desk so the dog doesn't eat it and he was having trouble jumping up so I have also put a chair there to help him get up easier. I talked with my husband and I think we are going to take him in to make sure nothing other than general old age is causing that problem and we may consider putting him back on the anti-anxiety meds. I'm trying to wait another week or two though to see if the changes I have just implemented are going to cause him to show improvement.

Again, I really appreciate the support from everyone, its really helped to provide me with the encouragement and motivation to keep working at it!

 

[onehornedone]

We have a cat condo for our pee-er. It "resets" him if he's in it and then taken out only under supervision. Both the cats like it when it's up and open so it could be a good "safe space" for your cats.

We tried everything for the peeing and the cat condo confinement was the only thing that worked :-( He goes in when he pees and it takes about a month to reintegrate him. So, yes he lives in there about 2 months a year. Better than euthanasia though.

My only other option is diapers!

 

[onthethird]

So far so good-both cats are inside and the litterbox is definitely getting more visits that it used to with the Cat Attract litter-it may be the "miracle" I had been hoping for. Both cats seem more playful with their new toys and more affectionate and I have been making a point to be more affectionate with them.

I'm a little paranoid and have been checking for pee with the blacklight a lot but I have not found any evidence of peeing since changing the litter and Kahlua also has not been aggressive since-perhaps the new toys are giving her a better outlet for her energy/instincts??

I'm praying things continue this way, I feel like I have done a 180 from being frusutrated to the point I was starting to consider things I never would have before, to feeling like I have "my cats" back after years of frustration.

 

[parsleysage]

Originally Posted by onthethird

I'm praying things continue this way, I feel like I have done a 180 from being frusutrated to the point I was starting to consider things I never would have before, to feeling like I have "my cats" back after years of frustration.

So happy to hear that this is working. for continued success!

 

[just mike]

Originally Posted by onthethird

So far so good-both cats are inside and the litterbox is definitely getting more visits that it used to with the Cat Attract litter-it may be the "miracle" I had been hoping for. Both cats seem more playful with their new toys and more affectionate and I have been making a point to be more affectionate with them.

Woo Hoo! So glad to hear about this. Thanks for the update.

 

[ligwa]

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by onthethird

I'm praying things continue this way, I feel like I have done a 180 from being frusutrated to the point I was starting to consider things I never would have before, to feeling like I have "my cats" back after years of frustration.

Excellent update. Just wonderful! I know you must be both pleased and relieved.

Remember, though, Onthethird - just like kids, a great deal of how cats behave is directly related to their environment and how they're treated. You have to keep doing what you're currently doing if you want them to continue to behave how you want them to. I would still recommend you purchase a cat tree for the primary living area(s) of your house if your cats don't have an elevated safe zone in these areas. Having a way to be part of the family while feeling completely secure (as they would surveying the room from seven feet up) is a great gift to them.

I'm so delighted at how well things are going and hope they continue to do nothing but improve!

AC

 

[onthethird]

Just another little update, things are still going well behavior-wise with Skipper and Kahlua. its very odd, now they seem to want to be around the kids, Skipper has even tried to lay in the bed with them a couple times at bedtime the past few days and he's been sleeping in their room sometimes too. Kahlua (gasp) even let my 3 year old pet her with no incident, she came up to him! (I watched very carefully)

However, for the bad news-Skipper has some sort of lump on his jawline I found tonight. I'll be calling the vet first thing in the morning. My first thought was dental abscess due to the location but I'm not sure as it is hard, he does not seem tender on it at all, eating fine, and no change in behavior. Its a pretty good size, I don't know if it just came up fast or I didn't notice it before-he's pretty fluffy and when I first noticed today at first I though his hair was just sticking out on one side of his face, it wasn't until I really felt for it that I was sure it was a lump-its about quarter sized in diameter. Like I said its not soft or painful to him so for all I know I've been petting right over it for who knows how long.

I'll let you know what the vet says...

 

[auntie crazy]

I hope whatever it is, it's an easy fix! I'll be watching for an update.

Best regards.

AC

 

[bastetservant]

Oh, dear. I hope it is nothing serious.

Pain, particularly mouth pain, can instigate inappropriate soiling. So maybe that's been an issue for some time. That cats are so stoic about pain is a big problem.

Please keep us updated on how Skipper is doing. Poor guy.

 

[feralvr]

I am so glad you found this lump on Skippers jaw. This really could be the culprit in the innappropriate peeing. There are some other members whose cats were having litterbox issues all due to mouth/teeth pain. I really hope it is nothing serious

. Sometimes kitties in pain will try to tell us by not using the litterbox and peeing elsewhere. Will be thinking of you tomorrow and also so glad things are going better at home for you

 

[just mike]

I wonder if that lump might have something to do with his litter box "accidents"? Glad you found it. Will be waiting to hear the update and keeping fingers crossed for good luck.