2 Cat relationship - Can they EVER be friends?

[pam10144]

Hello all!!!!
Like many others, I have been pouring over the site since we adopted our two cats (Penny 9/20 and Bean 11/20). Penny is an 8 year old female calico and Bean is a 1.5 year old male tuxedo. It took us a good 5 months having a screen door installed dead in the middle of our house before we could have the two be together in the same space unsupervised. Bean never had any issue, but Penny hissed, growled and avoided Bean at all costs. With lots of help from this site and calicosrspecial specifically, we got them together! They now co-exist in the house, though Bean is still sleeping in the finished basement, since Penny is a tiny picky eater, and he is a massive glutton. So they are apart for about 7 hours a day during the night.

Here is my question... will they ever be friends? Currently Penny "tolerates" Bean.... most of the time. He has calmed down a lot from his kittenish ways (he was 8 months when we brought him home) and he is much more relaxed. However, he is not innocent. He has a habit of either sneaking up on her and swatting her in the rear, or jumping on top of her from above (when she doesn't see him). Having watched several of these moments, I feel there is no malice, but she FREAKS out each and every time. (Not that I blame her) She will hiss and attack and they eventually both withdraw. There have been a few chases and some fur clumps, but they always seem fine after. Both will sleep in the same room, both will eat at the same time together.... but they will not play together. Bean will play with us, but as soon as Penny joins in, he plops down. She is definitely the dominant cat, and she still seems like she is not having anything to do with him. They will also block each other from rooms or going up or down stairs. They do this without doing anything, just the presence in the doorway will keep the other cat from passing. When they do "pass" by each other it is always a very widely swung pass as they both avoid each other (Penny much more so than Bean)

What I would like is to have two happy cats that like each other. I know I should have adopted a bonded pair, but I didn't, and we love both and neither is going anywhere. I just thought I would reach out to see if anyone has any ides for a better bond.

I am wondering if there are any tricks or tips anyone has to get her to be less jumpy and to maybe ignore and swat him when she doesn't want to play rather than attack. Or am I missing a sign of aggression from her or him swatting not being pay driven. Any insight is greatly appreciated. And kudos if you made it this far through this rambling mess...

 

[ArtNJ]

I think more realistic would be full toleration or very close. The last time I had this sort of relationship, they did get pretty much to full toleration, they could be chilling within a foot of each other, and they even played for a minute or two a few times, when the older cat was on a chair (elevation helps cats feel confident). It took years to get there, but they got close enough to toleration pretty quick and for most of the years, the older cat would only get hissy if the young one was actively being a PITA.

1.5 years is about the point where cats inevitably calm down. Exactly when and how much chilling you'll get is an open question of course, but you'll get *some* and it will help a ton.

 

[Anchoress]

Having a similar situation here? Jacob cat is terrified of the outdoor cat who is in the house more than out now. Jacob practises avoidance and I do not think that will ever change . As long as both are safe? I need to find a way to get Dominic fixed though. Like us there are just some folk we just cannot get along with. I am letting this ride as so far thanks to Jacob's skill in avoidance? NB If Dominic starts showing signs of aggression I expel him from the house. Not altogether happy with this but needs must.

 

[ArtNJ]

Having a similar situation here? Jacob cat is terrified of the outdoor cat who is in the house more than out now. Jacob practises avoidance and I do not think that will ever change . As long as both are safe? I need to find a way to get Dominic fixed though. Like us there are just some folk we just cannot get along with. I am letting this ride as so far thanks to Jacob's skill in avoidance? NB If Dominic starts showing signs of aggression I expel him from the house. Not altogether happy with this but needs must.

Definitely common elements to all of these, but each one is a little different, so I think you would be better served with a separate thread. A little more information would be great as well (such as how old they are, how long its been, how they act beyond avoidance, etc) Suggest a separate thread.

In very general terms, if avoidance is possible and selected, the cats won't really get used to each other and things won't necessarily progress. I think of introductions as desensitization therapy. They do that with humans you know? Start you out with a cartoon spider 12 feet away, and when you don't vomit from terror, a real spider 10 feet away and so on. But it takes time at every step. Without time, there is no therapy. There isn't any magic answer to avoidance I'm aware of, except changing the dynamic (i.e. making the cat indoor only, or changing it some other way).

 

[Anchoress]

I am fine here, so not seeking advice etc. If need be they will work it out in their own cat-way and time.

Oh and Jacob just fronted up to Dominic who yielded..so there we are.. They know what they are about

We tend to intervene too much sometimes and it slows things down

 

[Anchoress]

Definitely common elements to all of these, but each one is a little different, so I think you would be better served with a separate thread. A little more information would be great as well (such as how old they are, how long its been, how they act beyond avoidance, etc) Suggest a separate thread.

In very general terms, if avoidance is possible and selected, the cats won't really get used to each other and things won't necessarily progress. I think of introductions as desensitization therapy. They do that with humans you know? Start you out with a cartoon spider 12 feet away, and when you don't vomit from terror, a real spider 10 feet away and so on. But it takes time at every step. Without time, there is no therapy. There isn't any magic answer to avoidance I'm aware of, except changing the dynamic (i.e. making the cat indoor only, or changing it some other way).

From my long experience I an disagreeing with you on this. Cats differ from humans. These two are very aware of each other and it is looking good now and at their own pace.

 

[KavKit]

OP- its like you lived my life! I also have an older (12 year old) female calico and a younger (2 year old) male gray tabby cat who had nearly identical behaviors to your cats. The butt smacking, chasing, hissing, room blocking.

What I can tell you is what I have learned from my situation. It literally sometimes just takes time. Like almost a year sometimes more. My older girl came to us as an only pet from my grandmother. She is very dominate and was a little aggressive to even us at first. She is declawed (not my choice) so she can't really cause damage but she would attack my little guy on site. She would see red the moment he walked into the room. We did 3 reintroductions. At one point we had 4 baby gates installed around the house to keep them separated at all times. I was in tears thinking they would never get along.

We got her in February. Just this October they started showing signs of not just tolerance but friendship. So almost 9 months. Maybe in another 9 they will snuggle. But for now they sleep within inches of each other and nose boop so I will take that progress. There is no magic answer, but a couple key things I learned:

1) learn to read their body language. My husband and I never knew when or why the girl would go after the boy. But we noticed HE knew when she was being a spicy jalapeño. He would be more reserved. He would slink around, tense up. Be more shy which is out of character because he is actually a very social adventure cat who goes hiking with us. When he got in those moods she would inevitably attack him. So we would pick her up and put her in her safe room.
2) have safe rooms. thankfully the old lady cant jump very high but the young guy can. so we set up a low baby gate in his room so he can run and escape her. he can use the litter box and eat and sleep in safety. she has her own litter box and room where she goes for time outs (never punishment).
3) supervise hangout times. female cats lose the desire to play while male cats play well into older age. so when he starts getting too rough with the old lady he gets a time out. we do let her hiss at him when he butt swats so he understands she doesnt like it. but if she gets aggressive we pick them up and distract and separate.

Overtime we stopped having to pay so close attention. We almost never have to time out the cats any more. But we still do about once a week. It is a long game. Tapering slowly.

 

[pam10144]

OP- its like you lived my life! I also have an older (12 year old) female calico and a younger (2 year old) male gray tabby cat who had nearly identical behaviors to your cats. The butt smacking, chasing, hissing, room blocking.

What I can tell you is what I have learned from my situation. It literally sometimes just takes time. Like almost a year sometimes more. My older girl came to us as an only pet from my grandmother. She is very dominate and was a little aggressive to even us at first. She is declawed (not my choice) so she can't really cause damage but she would attack my little guy on site. She would see red the moment he walked into the room. We did 3 reintroductions. At one point we had 4 baby gates installed around the house to keep them separated at all times. I was in tears thinking they would never get along.

We got her in February. Just this October they started showing signs of not just tolerance but friendship. So almost 9 months. Maybe in another 9 they will snuggle. But for now they sleep within inches of each other and nose boop so I will take that progress. There is no magic answer, but a couple key things I learned:

1) learn to read their body language. My husband and I never knew when or why the girl would go after the boy. But we noticed HE knew when she was being a spicy jalapeño. He would be more reserved. He would slink around, tense up. Be more shy which is out of character because he is actually a very social adventure cat who goes hiking with us. When he got in those moods she would inevitably attack him. So we would pick her up and put her in her safe room.
2) have safe rooms. thankfully the old lady cant jump very high but the young guy can. so we set up a low baby gate in his room so he can run and escape her. he can use the litter box and eat and sleep in safety. she has her own litter box and room where she goes for time outs (never punishment).
3) supervise hangout times. female cats lose the desire to play while male cats play well into older age. so when he starts getting too rough with the old lady he gets a time out. we do let her hiss at him when he butt swats so he understands she doesnt like it. but if she gets aggressive we pick them up and distract and separate.

Overtime we stopped having to pay so close attention. We almost never have to time out the cats any more. But we still do about once a week. It is a long game. Tapering slowly.

Wow, It does sound so much like my two. We have had them for over a year now, and it is definitely getting better, but I don't see them being lovey/cuddling any time soon. Unfortunately for us, they are both very active and mobile. We are currently trying to figure a way for her to feed at night without him eating it. I have constructed a box with a cat door that will only allow her in. But she has yet to master it so we cannot use it.

It is definitely a work in progress! Thank you for giving me hope that in a few months/years, they may finally call a truce....

 

[Cosmic76]

Penny, I echo the above! I feel like I'm living your life lol. I have a 2 year old Tortie (anyone who doesn't think Tortitude exists needs to meet mine) and she's a total cow to my 1 year old black girl. Won't let her settle, constantly terrorises her, and has now started chasing her back out the cat flap whenever she comes home. The bizarre thing is she is totally fine with my other 5 year old cat. There was a time when the two females would actually eat together and they were perfectly happy in the kitchen together, but over the last couple of months it's extended to the whole house. My Tortie thinks shes Queen of the whole house and isn't prepared to share.

I have just bought a screen to seperate the house just like you did! I have no idea if it's the best thing to do or not, but I need my 1 year old to build some confidence and also be able to finish a meal once in a while!! I was buoyed to hear that your 5 month stint actually had positive results... Can I dare to hope I will have similar results??

 

[TardisDance]

This sounds like my new 1.5 year old tuxedo boy and 4 year old tuxedo girl. We’ve been at it with cat introductions for a month now, but we did have to quarantine the boy for a week because of giardia found in his fecal test. I swear the meds (flagyl / metronidazole) he was on have made him worse and he’s been pouncing on the girl like crazy when he gets sight of her. He’s eating a ton of food so it might be that he’s extra hangry. She was at least hissing or swatting before, but now she’s just taking it. I keep having to put him in time out.

I know a month isn’t long, but I’ve been so crestfallen over the whole thing. I just hope it’s a bad reaction to the meds/having cabin fever from quarantine. They were sleeping near each other some evenings. I just hope he’s not getting a Napoleon complex now that’s he’s more used to the house.

 

[pam10144]

Penny, I echo the above! I feel like I'm living your life lol. I have a 2 year old Tortie (anyone who doesn't think Tortitude exists needs to meet mine) and she's a total cow to my 1 year old black girl. Won't let her settle, constantly terrorises her, and has now started chasing her back out the cat flap whenever she comes home. The bizarre thing is she is totally fine with my other 5 year old cat. There was a time when the two females would actually eat together and they were perfectly happy in the kitchen together, but over the last couple of months it's extended to the whole house. My Tortie thinks shes Queen of the whole house and isn't prepared to share.

I have just bought a screen to seperate the house just like you did! I have no idea if it's the best thing to do or not, but I need my 1 year old to build some confidence and also be able to finish a meal once in a while!! I was buoyed to hear that your 5 month stint actually had positive results... Can I dare to hope I will have similar results??

Ah the screen door.. what a PIA it was, but there are days I miss it greatly and wish we still had it to keep the peace. It gave Bean a 3 room "apartment" (with me in my office) and Penny the rest of the house (with my husband working in the kitchen). While going through an extra door to move about the house was a pain, it made life a lot easier. We bought a very cheep screen door and stapled reinforced cage material (it was total DIY) to the bottom half, since they were both digging through the mesh screen. It was a good 2 months before we had the whole thing set so that it worked perfectly and they were able to see each other, smell each other, but not touch each other. They did have a few bouts of swatting at each other near the screen, but eventually the retreated and went their separate ways and really just got bored I think. After we knew they could co-exist (still had the door up an extra month) we disassembled and let them free. I think my Penny is part torti... boy can she be a bitch. She is very territorial to this day, and it causes most of the squabbles.

I wish you well in DoorLand. Please keep me posted.