2 2yr Old Brothers.. I Am At My Wits End

[Mom of 2 monsters]

Axley & Dentley are brothers from the same litter. I got them as kittens and have had them for 2 years. They are neutered indoor only, healthy as far as the vet is concerned. At first I thought that they would grow out of it, but these 2 haven't. Every night they howl .."sing".. down the hall. They can be dead asleep but as soon as everyone goes to bed, it starts. Dentley is the worst. When my daughter goes to school, he will howl at her door. When ahe is home, he will follow her around until she sits and then he is on her like white on rice.
Axley is the dominant of the two. He is also the most destructive. I am home all day, but if my level of attention isn't to his likingnn he starts knocking things off counters, sits in the shower and howls, gets up on counters. He will tear up a roll of TP even if we hide it, he finds it.
Both I believe have a form of pica. Dentley likes to chew on plastic bags. Axley likes harder plastic, wires, and straws. He will see me with a cup from a fast food place and stalk me. He destroyed the straws for my kids' Snackies. We had to switch to metal straws. If the 2 weren't so destructive, they would be allowed to go into bedrooms or the playroom.
Pheromone collars, diffusers, kitty prozac, lights on, tv, radio, squirt bottles, penny cans, foil, double sided tape, floor mats with spikes turned up.... you name it and I have done it. I and my family are at our wits end. I have never considered giving up on a pet, I have a snake that wouldn't eat for over a year and was suppose to be euthanized by the pet store, eats like a champ now so you can see I mean it when I say I have never given up. These 2 are pushing me to my limit.
Have I missed anything? Has anyone gone through this and won? HELP!!

 

[furmonster mom]

See my avatar?
Yeah... that's Loki aka Butthead
He earned his name fair and square
His brother's name was Pippen, because he was "accident prone"
Between the two of them... oi vey!

What breed is/are yours? You'd be surprised at how much breed mix can affect personality.
Mine are Ocicats. They are a mix of Abyssinian, Siamese, and American Shorthair. They are smart, clingy, chatty, affectionate, too smart, mischievous, sweet, obnoxious, adorable...

It took a few years but they eventually mellowed out... mostly.

 

[duckpond]

Maybe some hard play time? mine love those feather wands. play till they are lightly panting, then a treat. do it a few times a day if you can, and see if it helps? cats need to run and play, and catch "prey" aka feathers on a stick..lol. maybe buy a few toys they can carry and chew on, mine love little mice and toy springs. i even have a few tennis balls they love to chase. Good luck with your guys. and they are at a very active bratty age, they will calm down as they get a bit older
Pet Fit For Life 2 Feather Wand Cat Toy, Red & Purple
SmartyKat Skitter Critters Catnip Cat Toy we go through a lot of these
Ethical Pet Wide Durable Heavy Gauge Plastic Colorful Springs Cat Toy and these too.

 

[ArtNJ]

They do sound unusually difficult. A lot of the stuff you are reporting isn't unusual per se (like the toilet paper thing) but it is unusual for 2 year olds with a friend to play with to still be this way. Still, how much is *really* a big problem, except maybe the howling? I mean, you can learn to keep the bathroom door closed (I learned with kittens), to keep keys and small fragile stuff off counter-tops, and to not leave plastic bags around (I *know* this is tougher than it sounds because I had a plastic eater). I gather you have an overall level of frustration here, but I urge you to separate out the issues into a we-can-solve-it pile and a help!-have-no-idea pile. Is it just the howling in the later pile?

 

[Mom of 2 monsters]

Maybe some hard play time? mine love those feather wands. play till they are lightly panting, then a treat. do it a few times a day if you can, and see if it helps? cats need to run and play, and catch "prey" aka feathers on a stick..lol. maybe buy a few toys they can carry and chew on, mine love little mice and toy springs. i even have a few tennis balls they love to chase. Good luck with your guys. and they are at a very active bratty age, they will calm down as they get a bit older
Pet Fit For Life 2 Feather Wand Cat Toy, Red & Purple
SmartyKat Skitter Critters Catnip Cat Toy we go through a lot of these
Ethical Pet Wide Durable Heavy Gauge Plastic Colorful Springs Cat Toy and these too.

Axley plays fetch. They have atleast a dozen toys. Kids and I have 2 wands and 3 laser pens... Every night. Mice, springs, balls with bells - no interest.

 

[Willowy]

Heh, I consider all of that to be normal cat behavior, but I have a lot of cats and so between them they have all that covered, lol. I don't sweat the unimportant stuff like getting on the counters, so that keeps my stress level lower. For the TP I have a little cabinet thing that goes over the toilet, and put the TP on the lower shelf. Before I got that I kept it in a coffee can. I had one who loved straws, so he got all my fast food straws, tied in a knot.

Which behaviors are just sort of mildly annoying, and which ones can you really not live with?

Now the howling is a bit unusual. I lived with 2 half Siamese sisters for 21 years and got used to noisy cats, but nighttime howling would still get to me after a while. How much interactive playtime do they get? I think they need a good long play session with an interactive toy like a Da Bird, right before bedtime. Maybe that'll wear them out so they won't feel like howling all night.

 

[Mom of 2 monsters]

Heh, I consider all of that to be normal cat behavior, but I have a lot of cats and so between them they have all that covered, lol. I don't sweat the unimportant stuff like getting on the counters, so that keeps my stress level lower. For the TP I have a little cabinet thing that goes over the toilet, and put the TP on the lower shelf. Before I got that I kept it in a coffee can. I had one who loved straws, so he got all my fast food straws, tied in a knot.

Which behaviors are just sort of mildly annoying, and which ones can you really not live with?

Now the howling is a bit unusual. I lived with 2 half Siamese sisters for 21 years and got used to noisy cats, but nighttime howling would still get to me after a while. How much interactive playtime do they get? I think they need a good long play session with an interactive toy like a Da Bird, right before bedtime. Maybe that'll wear them out so they won't feel like howling all night.

The howling grates my nerves. It goes on for hours. I also have PTSD so I am easily triggered. The constant getting on the counter knocking things off, breaking stuff. I have had cats all of my life, NEVER had one like these 2.
Like I told another response, they get tons of play time - wands, laser pens, one even plays fetch. I am home all day too.

 

[Willowy]

Do you think it's possible to get them to stay in one room at night? If you can cat-proof a small room (as far away from bedrooms as possible), and gradually condition them to stay in there at night without freaking out, that could work for the nighttime howling.

I bet they have some Oriental breed or Bengal background. That would explain a lot.

 

[ArtNJ]

Maybe catnip an hour before bed? Supposed to chill them out when they come down. And try to keep them up as much as you can during the day.

 

[Mom of 2 monsters]

Do you think it's possible to get them to stay in one room at night? If you can cat-proof a small room (as far away from bedrooms as possible), and gradually condition them to stay in there at night without freaking out, that could work for the nighttime howling.

I bet they have some Oriental breed or Bengal background. That would explain a lot.

Oh how I wish I did have a room they could go in at night. Sadly, basement has unfinished walls, don't need them in the insulation. I live in PA, our garage gets VERY cold, no way I will put them out there.
I certainly think Dentley has some kind of Siamese like cat in him. He has that tone to his howl. His face even has that shape. Axley looks like your run of the mill O/W house cat. Since litter can have multiple father's, anything is possible. Their sister, that the owner kept, is a torti with mostly black.

 

[Furballsmom]

Just out of curiosity, is their sister like these two?

 

[Mom of 2 monsters]

Just out of curiosity, is their sister like these two?

From what I gather from the owner, she was a terror. They didn't get her spayed, though I offered to take her when I took the boys. She constantly got out. They gave her up to a friend's farm.

 

[Furballsmom]

Good gracious. So, what about calming herbs or products?

 

[lre17]

I don't know what your house set up is but perhaps they would enjoy a catio-get them outside for a bit (and give you some time in the house by yourself). I work from home myself and I feel your pain-it is hard when they want to play but you need to work etc.

 

[Mom of 2 monsters]

Good gracious. So, what about calming herbs or products?

Tried all of that. Pheromone & calming (chamomile) collars, diffusers, even invested in some of that flower oil that Jackson Galaxy uses. Nope!

 

[Mom of 2 monsters]

I don't know what your house set up is but perhaps they would enjoy a catio-get them outside for a bit (and give you some time in the house by yourself). I work from home myself and I feel your pain-it is hard when they want to play but you need to work etc.

In the winter (now) can't even do something in my garage. Spring & Summer, high winds, preditors, feral cats, loose dogs and no room on our deck to do that. We have considered it. I had one many years ago for the ones I owned then. Also, given the "rules" of our neighborhood, structures like that have to be approved unanimously by everyone on our cul-de-sac and one of my neighbors would be against it out of spite.

 

[Furballsmom]

eesh, neighbors can be such a hassle.
You probably did this already as well, but did you try a vet prescribed kitty Prozac? Also, there's a relatively new product called Composure that takes a different approach to the situation with it's ingredients - maybe something to look at for you.
What about a big walk-in style cage with cat trees in it for them in the basement or have someone build a unit like this - I'm not sure which would be less expensive. Or some type of inexpensive stiff mesh or whatever type material you could put up/over the walls where the insulation is?

 

[Willowy]

I don't think there's anything actually wrong with the cats, this is mainly a personality conflict. So meds aren't likely to work.

a big walk-in style cage with cat trees in it for them in the basement

I like this idea.

 

[maggiedemi]

Do you think they would bother the insulation in the basement? We have an unfinished addition on our house with just insulation on the walls and the cats never bother it.

 

[Mom of 2 monsters]

Do you think they would bother the insulation in the basement? We have an unfinished addition on our house with just insulation on the walls and the cats never bother it.

Axley is the worst when it comes to that area. He has managed to get in only for me to find him covered in it. We are planning on finishing it but you know how that is.. $$.