Lip Smacking And Dry Heaving

Eatingiceman · Jan 30, 2019

Hi, my cat started licking her mouth a lot today. It seems to happen after meals looks like she wants to bring up something. She has been having loose stools since I adopted her as well and I have been working on ending it. Could this be related? I have her on a limited ingredient diet and have been giving probiotics and pumpkin to help with the stools. My question is what cause cats to lick around their mouth and heave. I've also looked inside her mouth and don't see anything I'm there.

Kieka · Jan 30, 2019

Sounds like she is nauseous. Has she seen a vet for the digestive issues?

di and bob · Jan 30, 2019

Yes, she is nauseous, something is not agreeing with her.You might find out what she was eating before and go back to that for a while, then gradually bring in new a new diet. Could that limited ingredient diet have something in it she is allergic too?

daftcat75 · Jan 30, 2019

Lick lipping could be a number of things. It could be hunger or thirst, satisfaction after eating (a cat’s tongue is her toothbrush), oral discomfort/dental pain (some of which can happen below the gum line), or most likely in this case, nausea.

Pumpkin should be used for symptomatic relief but the underlying cause should still be addressed. A food that produces constant loose stools means that food isn’t the right one for her. And because a lot of limited ingredient diets aren’t all that limited in their ingredients and contain inappropriate ingredients like clay and cranberries, it makes your next task of figuring out which ingredient isn’t agreeing with her that much harder.

The basic formula for feeding a cat is:

Meat, moisture, organs (sometimes called byproducts—not a dirty word!), and supplements.

Cats do not have a nutritional requirement for fruits, vegetables, grains, starches, legumes, nuts, seeds, cranberries, or clay. Any gums should also be viewed with suspicion. Any ingredient that is added to the formula above should be viewed as a possible irritant. Cats not only don’t have a nutritional requirement for carbohydrates, but they are famously bad at digesting and utilizing them. The one exemption to the “no fruits or vegetables” is pumpkin as it’s a soluble fiber that can help with both constipation and diarrhea.

Rawz, Tiki Cat, Hound and Gatos, Pure Vita, and even Fancy Feast Classic (none of their other lines though) all follow that formula pretty well.

Finally, if you simplify the formula to only species-appropriate ingredients and she still has loose stools, the protein itself may not agree with her. Chicken and salmon don’t agree with my Krista. Chicken will make her very uncomfortable, possibly and probably to the point of vomiting. Salmon will give her loose stools.

Eatingiceman · Jan 30, 2019

daftcat75 said:
Lick lipping could be a number of things. It could be hunger or thirst, satisfaction after eating (a cat’s tongue is her toothbrush), oral discomfort/dental pain (some of which can happen below the gum line), or most likely in this case, nausea.

Pumpkin should be used for symptomatic relief but the underlying cause should still be addressed. A food that produces constant loose stools means that food isn’t the right one for her. And because a lot of limited ingredient diets aren’t all that limited in their ingredients and contain inappropriate ingredients like clay and cranberries, it makes your next task of figuring out which ingredient isn’t agreeing with her that much harder.

The basic formula for feeding a cat is:

Meat, moisture, organs (sometimes called byproducts—not a dirty word!), and supplements.

Cats do not have a nutritional requirement for fruits, vegetables, grains, starches, legumes, nuts, seeds, cranberries, or clay. Any gums should also be viewed with suspicion. Any ingredient that is added to the formula above should be viewed as a possible irritant. Cats not only don’t have a nutritional requirement for carbohydrates, but they are famously bad at digesting and utilizing them. The one exemption to the “no fruits or vegetables” is pumpkin as it’s a soluble fiber that can help with both constipation and diarrhea.

Rawz, Tiki Cat, Hound and Gatos, Pure Vita, and even Fancy Feast Classic (none of their other lines though) all follow that formula pretty well.

Finally, if you simplify the formula to only species-appropriate ingredients and she still has loose stools, the protein itself may not agree with her. Chicken and salmon don’t agree with my Krista. Chicken will make her very uncomfortable, possibly and probably to the point of vomiting. Salmon will give her loose stools.

Protine is going to be this weeks problem to solve. I've been feeding her koha the only problematic ingredient I see is cranberries ginger and I'm not sure if agar agar is a gum. What rawz would you recommend? Theres definitely something in the foods upsetting her and I can't go back to what they originally fed her as it makes her even more sick. Starting to think she has IBD

Eatingiceman · Jan 30, 2019

di and bob said:
Yes, she is nauseous, something is not agreeing with her.You might find out what she was eating before and go back to that for a while, then gradually bring in new a new diet. Could that limited ingredient diet have something in it she is allergic too?

Checked the ingredients and it is a possibility, cant go back to old food as it was much worse for her. Before I switched her onto what I'm feeding now her stools where so bad she was passing blood. I went to the vet and they pretty much told me just keep to the diet itll be fine... it's a vet brand canned food that obviously was not working.

Eatingiceman · Jan 30, 2019

Kieka said:
Sounds like she is nauseous. Has she seen a vet for the digestive issues?

Yes, but they pretty much told me "oh shes fine just adjusting to the spay and new home" but like her transition has been really smooth and the new home is a quiet safe area. So I'm on my own pretty much in solving this :/

daftcat75 · Jan 30, 2019

Cranberries and ginger can definitely be irritants. But so can the protein. Krista loves the Rawz rabbit and the turkey, but the duck seems to be her new favorite. She’s not a red meat cat so no to the beef. Chicken and salmon are her no-go proteins so that eliminates the rest of the flavors. Still, three is not bad at all. Definitely enough to keep her interested and fed and even weather out supply issues like the local store running out of duck.

Eatingiceman · Jan 30, 2019

Kieka said:
Sounds like she is nauseous. Has she seen a vet for the digestive issues?

Yes they told me to keep giving a vet brand diet that I tried for a week with no improvements and the issue worsened.

daftcat75 · Jan 30, 2019

Agar agar is a gum. Any gum can cause a reaction in any cat. But agar agar seems to cause fewer reactions than other gums. I try to avoid xanthum gum (suspect Krista doesn’t do well with this one) and carageenan altogether. I also avoid foods that have more than one gum. Agar agar and guar gum seem to be tolerated by Krista. I don’t know about the others like locust bean gum because this is usually paired with another gum. If the recipe is otherwise good like Pure Vita, I may be willing to test a can on Krista if agar agar is the only thing going against it.

Eatingiceman · Jan 30, 2019

daftcat75 said:
Agar agar is a gum. Any gum can cause a reaction in any cat. But agar agar seems to cause fewer reactions than other gums. I try to avoid xanthum gum (suspect Krista doesn’t do well with this one) and carageenan altogether. I also avoid foods that have more than one gum. Agar agar and guar gum seem to be tolerated by Krista. I don’t know about the others like locust bean gum because this is usually paired with another gum. If the recipe is otherwise good like Pure Vita, I may be willing to test a can on Krista if agar agar is the only thing going against it.

This is the list of ingredients on the food I had been using. I'm really new at all this and don't know what to look out for yet. I've been trying to find something with very limited ingredients to start working out what it is causing the issues. I'd like to try a raw diet but it's a big switch to a 6 year old use to dry foods. I'm looking up the brands suggested now.

"Kangaroo, Vegetable Broth, Olive Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Tricalcium Phosphate, Agar-Agar, Pumpkin, Kale, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Ginger, Turmeric, New Zealand Green Mussel, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Folic Acid"

Kieka · Jan 30, 2019

I'd find a new vet or go back and tell them the problem is still happening.

Eatingiceman · Jan 30, 2019

daftcat75 said:
Agar agar is a gum. Any gum can cause a reaction in any cat. But agar agar seems to cause fewer reactions than other gums. I try to avoid xanthum gum (suspect Krista doesn’t do well with this one) and carageenan altogether. I also avoid foods that have more than one gum. Agar agar and guar gum seem to be tolerated by Krista. I don’t know about the others like locust bean gum because this is usually paired with another gum. If the recipe is otherwise good like Pure Vita, I may be willing to test a can on Krista if agar agar is the only thing going against it.

Oh actually a friend recommended stella & chewy freeze dried might try that one for a week, the only problematic ingredients I see is pumpkin seeds and flax seeds

daftcat75 · Jan 30, 2019

Eatingiceman said:
Oh actually a friend recommended stella & chewy freeze dried might try that one for a week, the only problematic ingredients I see is pumpkin seeds and flax seeds

I would try it anyway. Seeds are mostly protein and fat rather than carbohydrates. Even though it comes freeze-dried like a kibble, I would definitely rehydrate it. Stella And Chewy's will have bone in it. This is not problematic for every cat. But she may become constipated from the bone content. For starters, raw fed cats poop less frequently so I wouldn't worry about constipation until she's straining in the litter box or her eating declines. Or you could just add 1/4 tsp miralax to the rehydrated Stella and Chewy's and get out ahead of that from the start.

daftcat75 · Jan 30, 2019

Eatingiceman said:
This is the list of ingredients on the food I had been using. I'm really new at all this and don't know what to look out for yet. I've been trying to find something with very limited ingredients to start working out what it is causing the issues. I'd like to try a raw diet but it's a big switch to a 6 year old use to dry foods. I'm looking up the brands suggested now.

"Kangaroo, Vegetable Broth, Olive Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Tricalcium Phosphate, Agar-Agar, Pumpkin, Kale, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Ginger, Turmeric, New Zealand Green Mussel, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Folic Acid"

Bolding the potential irritants for you.

Kangaroo! Novel proteins only have to be novel to her. Exotic proteins could disagree with her just as easily as more common proteins. The problem with exotic proteins is that these aren't animals cats normally consume. They also tend to be more gamey and red meat and many cats don't like or tolerate game meats or red meats. What were the proteins in her dry food? Start by crossing those off. If she's like most cats, she probably ate a lifetime of chicken and salmon before problems started. The good news is that turkey and duck may still be okay with her. Chicken and egg are different proteins so egg may also be alright even with a chicken intolerance. Rabbit is another kitty favorite that is well-tolerated by most.

Olive oil is probably okay on its own except it's just so high up the list. It's also simply fat and too much fat can produce loose stools.

Conversely, the others are further down the list and probably not going to have as much of an impact.

Green lipped mussels. This may be a cat superfood (glucosamine and chondroitin) but you also don't know how yours tolerates it. If you can find a simpler recipe, you could buy freeze-dried green lipped mussels or powder and add that back if you wanted to try that with her.

The spices are a who-knows? Spices aren't part of a cat's diet.

Kale and cranberries. Cats are famously bad at extracting nutrition from plants. In the wild, the only time they consume plants is to help them regurgitate.

Pumpkin is the exception. Pumpkin can help with both diarrhea and constipation. Even though I highlighted it, I would keep it if you see it in the next formula you look at.

LTS3 · Jan 30, 2019

Eatingiceman said:
Yes they told me to keep giving a vet brand diet that I tried for a week with no improvements and the issue worsened.

The thing with food elimination trials is that you need to stick with the food for at least 13 weeks to see any improvement in symptoms. So a week isn't enough time to tell if the current food is working or not.

Per My Vet: How Long For Food Allergies Test

Kefa · Jan 30, 2019

Have you tried offering her grass? I usually just give Homer a few sprigs from the yard with every meal. I make sure the pieces are small, and he doesn't puke them up. Cats do eat grass when left to their own devices. I did buy him some of that presprouted oat grass but he ate it all, so going back to giving him smaller bits of grass. The vet said it was good fiber for him, and it helps with digestive issues. And he likes it a lot. I know the grass in my yard doesn't have pesticides or any other chemicals, even so I wash it first and feed it to him wet.

I really don't like that ingredient list. It looks like it was made to attract Humans to what they think is healthy and exotic, instead of for cats.

daftcat75 · Jan 30, 2019

Cats often eat grass to regurgitate their food. You are a lucky one that your boy eats it and keeps it down.

Eatingiceman · Jan 31, 2019

daftcat75 said:
Bolding the potential irritants for you.

Kangaroo! Novel proteins only have to be novel to her. Exotic proteins could disagree with her just as easily as more common proteins. The problem with exotic proteins is that these aren't animals cats normally consume. They also tend to be more gamey and red meat and many cats don't like or tolerate game meats or red meats. What were the proteins in her dry food? Start by crossing those off. If she's like most cats, she probably ate a lifetime of chicken and salmon before problems started. The good news is that turkey and duck may still be okay with her. Chicken and egg are different proteins so egg may also be alright even with a chicken intolerance. Rabbit is another kitty favorite that is well-tolerated by most.

Olive oil is probably okay on its own except it's just so high up the list. It's also simply fat and too much fat can produce loose stools.

Conversely, the others are further down the list and probably not going to have as much of an impact.

Green lipped mussels. This may be a cat superfood (glucosamine and chondroitin) but you also don't know how yours tolerates it. If you can find a simpler recipe, you could buy freeze-dried green lipped mussels or powder and add that back if you wanted to try that with her.

The spices are a who-knows? Spices aren't part of a cat's diet.

Kale and cranberries. Cats are famously bad at extracting nutrition from plants. In the wild, the only time they consume plants is to help them regurgitate.

Pumpkin is the exception. Pumpkin can help with both diarrhea and constipation. Even though I highlighted it, I would keep it if you see it in the next formula you look at.

I have the chiken stella and chewies, I tried it on her yesterday after her two regular foods where met with dry heaving. She ate it fine and didn't make a fuss about it. I'm going to try her old brand again but the chiken variety just to see if there's any immediate response from her like yesterday. Shes been passing normal stools for about 3 days now and never had a reaction like that since I started giving her the old diet. Possibly could have just been an upset tummy from something she ate earlier or a protein that didn't agree with her. Going to stick to chiken for a while and see if it was just a one time thing.

Beyond Confused · Feb 2, 2019

Eatingiceman said:
Hi, my cat started licking her mouth a lot today. It seems to happen after meals looks like she wants to bring up something. She has been having loose stools since I adopted her as well and I have been working on ending it. Could this be related? I have her on a limited ingredient diet and have been giving probiotics and pumpkin to help with the stools. My question is what cause cats to lick around their mouth and heave. I've also looked inside her mouth and don't see anything I'm there.

My kitty does this right before vomiting or trying to vomit. There's usually a strange meow that happens, too.

I am certainly not trying to diagnose your kitty or tell you what to do, I'm just sharing my recent experience.

My 10yo kitty started vomiting more a few months ago, so I took him to the vet multiple times. He, too, had loose stools. He was tested for everything under the sun.
Very long story short, especially since there's a possibility that what's wrong with him isn't your cat's problem -
He was diagnosed with Giardia, so he's been on multiple rounds of metronidazole (should be ending after this week, I would imagine). There's been a ridiculous list of chores in order to keep his areas spotless to help him beat this.

My vet, after numerous tests to rule things out, is also leaning towards pancreatitis.

Because of this, he's taking Metocloprimide for nausea. The vet was hoping to take him off of it with the visit scheduled for this coming week, but I'm having my doubts.

He's also taking Fortiflora because probiotics are supposed to be good for kitties with this condition.

He's on a Purina RX bland diet, and I've been told he'll take Pepcid daily for the rest of his life.

After many, many weeks, his stools are getting firmer, thanks to the probiotic, and the vomiting spells have definitely lessened.

So again, I'm NOT saying these are issues your kitty has, but I'd definitely take her to the vet to try ruling out issues. It's better to find them sooner rather than later.

Lip Smacking And Dry Heaving

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