Oral Cancer, Bad Breath, Regrets

[reba]

I took in a stray about 8 years ago. He’s always had bad breath. I asked about it at the vets and they did recommend a cleaning, but said his teeth didn’t look too bad. So I researched it and I don’t remember seeing anything about bad breath and oral.cancer, until now of course, when the vet mentioned oral cancer after he had to have a few teeth extracted. He’s always had the bad breath but was a robust eater and toy chomper.

So about 4-6 months ago I started noticing his cupid mouth didn’t look the same. His breath got worse and he seemed to have trouble eating so I took him in. He ended up having 2 abcessed teeth and 2 teeth they were reabsorbing. She estracted them all and I was waiting for a return to normal. Except he’s not normal, so I took him back and she said that one of his upper tooth must’ve been worse than she thought and that had to go to. So we made an appointment to remove that.

Except I’m afraid that’s not it either. He holds his mouth open slightly all the time. He cleans his face with his paw normally, but he’s off somehow. Like when I come home from work he looks like he’s not feeling well. His hair stands up a bit. We had xrays today of his skull, but they have to off to the radiologist to read them. She’s taking his other tooth out next week and she said the radiologist might want to do xrays when his mouth is open. I’m kind of on the fence here because if he does have oral cancer it’s going to show up eventually. I don’t know if anyone can think of something else it might be.

I’m so mad at myself for not getting his teeth cleaned. I wish the vet had mentioned this as one of the dangers. I just figured he was a guy with halitosis and since he has annual check ups they would spot if his teeth were worse. But I swear I looked it “cat bad-breath” up sooooo many times and no red-flags about oral cancer. So if anything, hope this post can give a heads up to others.

I love this cat so much, he’s absolutely the most unique fella. He spent the winter in a Coleman cat house cooler that I built for him, before I was finally able to get him the house in the Spring. He hasn’t wanted to go out since! Every year about this time he starts jumping into bed and spooning with me because it’s getting colder. He’s this big linebacker of a cat. I’ll never have another like him.

If anyone has any resources about oral cancer I”d much appreciate.

 

[neely]

Just out of curiosity, did the vet do a biopsy? Our previous cat had FORL and two dental surgeries. She ended up having cancer of the mandible. You have given him a loving and forever home. He obviously trusts you so please don't blame yourself. You may want to consider getting a second opinion if it would help give you peace of mind. Thinking of you and sending special thoughts.

 

[MissClouseau]

Did the vet actually mention oral cancer?

Bad breath, gingivitis and tooth that need to be extracted are extremely common among cats. Older a cat gets more severe their issues get (or if they had no dental problem before, they start to have them as they get older. Just like humans.

There are several different dental issues that is not cancer but still very painful and need medical care. Stomatitis for example is one of them.

 

[Antonio65]

Bad breath isn't necessarily related to oral cancer, that's why your research on the web didn't lead to anything.
There are so many issues in a cat's mouth that can give a bad breath.
A bad tooth (or more than one), a gingivitis, a stomatitis, FORL like neely mentioned. A poor mouth hygien (due to a physiological condition, not necessarily because of a lack of brushing) can also give bad breath. A bad digestion or a low quality food can also be responsible.

A mouth cancer grows quite quickly, you wouldn't have the chance to wait months, and you would see some sort of mass or lump growing somewhere.
The cat in my avatar had an oral cancer, and it grew quickly, from nothing to a disaster in a few weeks.

If your cat allows you, you could open his mouth wide and take some photos of her gums, tongue, throat, palate, and so on. Or, if possible, have your vet take those photos for you.

 

[fionasmom]

I agree with everyone's previous thoughts. If there is some suspicion of oral cancer, the vet needs to have a good look in the mouth one way or the other, visually or with imaging, and do a biopsy if something is found and if that is possible. Let's hope it is not oral cancer though and that there is some other explanation.

I had a cat who had squamous cell carcinoma of the mouth and it did grow quickly, did not take months, and the vet was sure when she looked at it, even before the biopsy that it was cancer. Oral cancers are not that subtle or slow growing.

 

[reba]

Did the vet actually mention oral cancer?

She did when she first did the extractions. She said there was a lot of swelling. The thing is after 8 years his bad breath is completely gone. So it was his teeth. They took xrays of his skull yesterday. His bloodwork is fine. While I was writing this the vet just called and said the radiologist is very concerned, it doesn’t look good at all. It’s in the left side of his lower mandible. I don’t know exactly what they see in the xray. There is a small chance he has a bone infection so I am going to pick up antibiotics just in case it’s that. Then we will xray again in two weeks. He is constantly licking his chops right now if his head is off the couch. She is not going to remove the tooth that we thought was bothering him.

I‘m so sad. All I can do is wait now.

Here is a pic of him with his mouth open. He will hold it like this until he licks his chops and then it will close for a bit.

 

[reba]

I just got back from picking up some clindamycin, which she prescribed on the small chance it's a bone infection. I don't have an appointment for another two weeks, which strikes me as too long given what I've been reading. Not that I want to take him in again, I just think that if he's in pain we should start managing it before another two weeks.

I would say he's about the same today, though now I notice a bit of drool where they extracted the teeth. I still strongly believe that it's over 50% this could have been prevented had I just had his teeth cleaned when I first noticed the bad breath. I'm sharing that not so much to beat myself up over it as to give others food for thought. The vet said that didn't cause it, inflammation does make it more likely.

 

[fionasmom]

Tell the vet upfront that you are not comfortable waiting two weeks. She may be trying to save you a little money and may not be adverse to moving ahead on this now.

 

[reba]

TY - I will do that Monday. I went out and bought him pate and he’s eating up a storm. Just opened and gave him another half of a second small can. Now he is cleaning his face with his paw like normal. I started the bone infection antibiotic yesterday - I would give anything, anything if that was the problem, but I know that’s a small possibility.

Just for future reference, this article is pretty recent:
A Review of Feline Oral Squamous Cell Carcinoma

There’s also a very promising treatment for Oral SCC. Unfortunately, the researcher is in the Netherlands, so that won’t help my kitty:
New Treatment Could Help Cats Suffering from Deadly Head and Neck Cancer

He gave me a nice big yawn yesterday. Here is a pic of his mouth. You can see on the left (his right) where it is swollen and he is missing teeth:

 

[Antonio65]

Interesting articles the ones you linked in your post.
My cat an SCC, sublingual, that took her away in 8 months.
What I find it weird is that none of the risk factors explained in the first article apply to my case.
Her wet food came in pouches for years, canned on her last few years. No flea collars ever. No smoke in the house.
But I am damn sure that her cancer was triggered by the chemicals in those wipes I had to use to keep her clean when a very bad disease made her unable to move and go to the litter box and she would often pee herself in her bed.
The oncologist sort of agreed to this.

The link to the doctor in the Netherlands is interesting, unfortunately not so useful to me anymore. I would have gone there had it been available when my cat needed it.

Thanks for both!

Fingers crossed you'll have positive answers and actions on Monday.

 

[reba]

For comparison normal cat:

 

[reba]

I want to thank everyone who posted so far and/or offered hugs. It’s amazing digging through this site how many people post and then disappear and you never know what happens. I‘ll try to keep posting so at least people can know how this turns out.

Kitty smacks his lips and swallows every time he wakes up, but unsure if this is a result of his missing teeth. I don’t notice a lot of drooling, but this is a new thing.

 

[reba]

[


No flea collars or smoking, but I have fed only canned wet for the past few years due to a cat with crystals. The other risk factor I’m sure was whatever was causing his bad breath, which was definitely his teeth, because it’s gone now. I’ll be kicking myself for years on that one. Especially since I‘m hypervigilant about most things cat health related.

I agree, That treatment sounds really promising. Light and a topical chemical. Doesn’t even sound as though there’s any side effects.

 

[Antonio65]

Thanks for your additional info. I hope you can give us positive updates soon!

 

[reba]

Today is going pretty well. I honestly can‘t tell if his mouth is worse or the same. At first this morning I thought it looked bigger on the one side, but that is the side he still has his teeth on. I have to be careful as I have a tendency to catstrophize. That’s what impresses me so much about people like Antonio; the ability to just stay in the present and hang in there. I went out and tried to get all the things people recommended for giving medication. Thank god for the people on the site!!!

He is laying next to me right now half asleep with one eye open. I want my cat back. I hate waking up in the middle of the night thinking it must be a dream and then realizing it is all true.

I am continuing to give him the bone infection antibiotic and the pain pill. The latter was for his tooth pain though and not cancer pain. I will ask about that tomorrow.

Though his mouth looks the same, I notice he is definitely drooling on the couch. I hate that when I wake him up he looks at me like he doesn’t feel well. At least he is acting normal at meal times.

I am filling out this every day:

https://inthecomfortofhome.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/HuMANE-CARE.pdf

 

[Antonio65]

Thanks for your words, reba , I appreciate them.
My staying in the present was for the solely wellness of my cat Lola. She couldn't take care of herself, and she had only me. So one of the two had to be focused all the time, and that was me.
What Lola had was killing me, believe me, I couldn't put myself together during the day, but I couldn't afford to lose the focus.

Just like you I would wake up in the middle of the night or early in the morning and hope it had just been a very bad nightmare, but then I would get up and see the mess my Lola was in, and every morning I had to get into the reality of life.

I'm with you now, I know how terrible having to deal with this monster is. Talk to your vet, explore every possible path, don't be afraid to ask if there's something else that they haven't thought of yet.
Get an appointment with an oncologist, they are the only one who know exactly what to do. I'm telling you this from experience. No vet, unless an oncologist, can really know what to do.

Best of luck!

 

[Antonio65]

I forgot...

I never filled a form like the one you linked, it looks interesting. Hopefully you keep getting a very high score.

 

[reba]

Not much has changed today. I emailed the vet this morning and she agreed that palliative care was a good way to go (which means the radiologist’s report was worse than she let on). As for me I’m just going on what he looks like. He is still eating very well, but drooling more. She is putting him on prednisolone. She also warned that I should wait 24 hours after the onsior (thankfully). I will put this in a separate post, but do not give into the temptation to use some old pain meds to your cat without telling the vet. After I talked to her I found two more onsior that she had prescribed 2 years go for another cat. Because they weren’t expired I would have been tempted to give them to him.

I’m not sure if his chin is going to get bigger or not. I thought this is what happened, but I can see in some people’s SCC pics that their cat‘s faces don’t change much. It kills me when I see his small cupid-bow mouth now looks so much larger and almost forced into a smile.

 

[Antonio65]

I’m not sure if his chin is going to get bigger or not. I thought this is what happened, but I can see in some people’s SCC pics that their cat‘s faces don’t change much. It kills me when I see his small cupid-bow mouth now looks so much larger and almost forced into a smile.

I had the habit to take a photo of my cat's mouth every other day to see the progression of the mass. My cat had a sublingual mass, so I had to open her mouth wide to take a photo of that mass.
Despite the mass was rapidly growing, her exterior aspect didn't change, apart from her expression that was of suffering in the last weeks.
It's been nearly 5 years now, but it seems yesterday to me, that pain never went away

 

[reba]

Antonio, I’m still so sorry. My sister is still bursting into tears over a year after losing her cat to cancer.

I am terrified to force his mouth open as the cancer in his jaw. I used to think I could pill anything, but not this cat.

He’s had two 3 steriod pills now and today I came inside after work and he was sitting at the top of the steps looking down at me. The last few days he has barely gotten up from his bed. He trotted over to me as well when I sat down and called him. This is the fourth day of the bone infection antibiotic. Bad signs - still licking his chops every few seconds. Cleaning himself and eating normally.

So all in all a good day! I’ll take it.