6 year old Morty isn't doing so well

[daftcat75]

I thought the exact same thing when reading those directions! Clearly they haven't updated anything.

If it’s not clear from the instructions or the picture, it’s that top part inside the ear, rather than behind it, that you’re supposed to apply it. Morty won’t be sticking his paw inside his ear to groom.

 

[daftcat75]

I wish. But no, it's fresh out of the can. If I cycle through and given him maybe....7 different types/brands throughout the week he usually has no problems. He just doesn't like the same meal more than once in a row. When he was on raw though pork was the exception to this. He would eat pork no matter what.

Cats are weird.

 

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If it’s not clear from the instructions or the picture, it’s that top part inside the ear, rather than behind it, that you’re supposed to apply it. Morty won’t be sticking his paw inside his ear to groom.

Oh wow you're right. I'm glad I didn't give it to him yet. I wonder why they would put it on the outside of his ears then. I just looked at the two page itemized receipt they gave me any every time I see something I don't recognize and google it, it comes up as a different antibiotic. They must have given him every one they had since they didn't know the bacteria. Either way that doesn't clear up what the hell they put on his ears that's making him scratch. I'll have to ask the vet when she calls me with his B12 and folic results.

This is where it is, although you can't see it from the picture. It's just one tiny clump of hair on each ear that appears a bit wet.

 

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Morty Update:

We decided to look up some videos on how to properly put pills down cat's throat on Youtube. I regret this.

Normally I would put his head back and barely crack his teeth so that I could see the pill go down, or in the case of a liquid I would stick it in between his teeth at an angle. Since he's been having these drooling problems we wanted to see what we were doing wrong. After watching numerous veterinarian videos we realized we weren't tilting his head back far enough nor were we pulling open his jaw.

So then we followed this advice and gave him the Cerenia. It went terribly. We dropped it down his throat, rubbed his neck and blew on his nose and it never went down. I had better luck when I did it yesterday not following those instructions. Anyway, most of it came out on a towel and he was drooling for a while. Next up we tried one of the antibiotics with the same technique...and got the same result. Most of it came back out and he was drooling. After that I had had enough and decided I would do it myself the same way I was taught. Even if it made him foam/drool at least I knew most of the meds were going down. For the final one I did it my way (tilting the head at an angle and barely cracking the teeth open, shooting it back, holding the head up) and most of it went down. There was still a bit of drool and antibiotic that did not go down but I figure at least most did.

Now, to the appetite stimulant. I didn't research about how soon it was supposed to work but it seemed like within an hour and a half he was hungry. He ate a bit more of his turkey before the meds. Afterword, I was preparing some bone/organ/meat quail and pork since I had previously ordered from HT (before Morty got sick) and wanted to freeze it for my other cats. Man was Morty obnoxious. We left two types of turkey canned out for him (and topped it with a tiny, tiny bit of instinct turkey dry via food processor that I used to give as treats) but he wouldn't eat that. Instead he just meowed and rubbed against me as I prepared the raw to be frozen. I felt so bad because normally he gets a nice fresh raw treat whenever I prepare anything, but I knew he couldn't have it. Eventually he got frustrated and picked at his regular food, but he still didn't want much to do with it. I think it may be a good idea to buy some ground turkey thigh and try and cook that up for him since the vet said that would be okay and because he was begging so much for the raw.

We will see how he treats the Instinct Turkey tomorrow, but I have a feeling he's going to want something else. I also wanted to mention that he does appear to be a bit sneezy again. Not full sneezes, but shorter ones, almost like quick puffs if that makes sense. When he goes in for his follow-up next Firday I'm going to ask our vet about this as well as his asthma. I guess it's also very possible that he may be allergic to turkey now, it's just too early and too difficult for me to figure that out just yet.

Here's a picture of Morty begging for raw. He sadly didn't get any.

 

[daftcat75]

Krista and I had many a wrestling match. She got good at keeping the pill in her mouth while I rubbed her throat and blew across her nose. Then I’d let her go and she’d spit the pill out. I would either get her medicine compounded to a liquid or transdermal when I could or crush it and hide it in food when I couldn’t. Luckily she had a healthy appetite. Unfortunately that was due to steroids and lymphoma.

I would think a turkey allergy would result in not so much sneezing but lots of head shaking and scratching about the head. His sneezes could be a one-off reaction to the pilling. Or you may have something like an air freshener or other scent in the home that he’s sensitive to. In Krista’s last year or so, I switched to as much “Free and Clear” type products as I could. Strong scents would make her barf.

I have pictures like that. When Krista started having health issues in 2018, I finally relented on the “no counter surfing” rule because I found it easier to prepare medicine meals and make sure she eat them at my level rather than hers. I would also serve her raw food on the kitchen counter. She was a bit of food flinger, likely due to her dental issues. It felt it was safer and easier to clean flung food off the coffee maker than search for it under an appliance. When I would prepare her raw food, I put up this simple barrier of a tub with a layer of water at the bottom. She would have to get her paws wet to inspect the food prep operation. That was a hard no for her. So instead, I got faces and pictures like this.

That’s a rabbit. I’m going to take out the kidneys and liver. (These fryers never came with a heart. ) I cut off the hind legs and use those for her food. The rest of the carcass would be wrapped back up and go to a beertender friend who let me drink for free on rabbit drop nights. That helped bring my cost down from about $70/lbs of leg meat (two whole fryers for 4 hind legs worth of meat) to something closer to $40 or $45. Still not something sustainable full time. But for a treat meal after our nightly steroid pill wrestling match, that was worth it. She would get about an ounce serving size. (1 lbs of meat plus organs, water and supplements would yield about 22 oz of food or about three weeks worth.) I would put a small cup over her treat portion, lead her into the home office, and close the door behind her. When we were done pilling, I lifted the cup and let her at it. She knew that wrestling match was coming. But she also kept showing up for it to get to that treat portion afterwards.

There was also a small bit of canned Rawz rabbit in the corner that I would smear her pill in before pilling. I thought it might make it easier but it never did.

I hope Morty’s appetite continues to improve. And I hope your pill skills do as well.

 

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Krista and I had many a wrestling match. She got good at keeping the pill in her mouth while I rubbed her throat and blew across her nose. Then I’d let her go and she’d spit the pill out. I would either get her medicine compounded to a liquid or transdermal when I could or crush it and hide it in food when I couldn’t. Luckily she had a healthy appetite. Unfortunately that was due to steroids and lymphoma.

I would think a turkey allergy would result in not so much sneezing but lots of head shaking and scratching about the head. His sneezes could be a one-off reaction to the pilling. Or you may have something like an air freshener or other scent in the home that he’s sensitive to. In Krista’s last year or so, I switched to as much “Free and Clear” type products as I could. Strong scents would make her barf.

I have pictures like that. When Krista started having health issues in 2018, I finally relented on the “no counter surfing” rule because I found it easier to prepare medicine meals and make sure she eat them at my level rather than hers. I would also serve her raw food on the kitchen counter. She was a bit of food flinger, likely due to her dental issues. It felt it was safer and easier to clean flung food off the coffee maker than search for it under an appliance. When I would prepare her raw food, I put up this simple barrier of a tub with a layer of water at the bottom. She would have to get her paws wet to inspect the food prep operation. That was a hard no for her. So instead, I got faces and pictures like this.
View attachment 369298
That’s a rabbit. I’m going to take out the kidneys and liver. (These fryers never came with a heart. ) I cut off the hind legs and use those for her food. The rest of the carcass would be wrapped back up and go to a beertender friend who let me drink for free on rabbit drop nights. That helped bring my cost down from about $70/lbs of leg meat (two whole fryers for 4 hind legs worth of meat) to something closer to $40 or $45. Still not something sustainable full time. But for a treat meal after our nightly steroid pill wrestling match, that was worth it. She would get about an ounce serving size. (1 lbs of meat plus organs, water and supplements would yield about 22 oz of food or about three weeks worth.) I would put a small cup over her treat portion, lead her into the home office, and close the door behind her. When we were done pilling, I lifted the cup and let her at it. She knew that wrestling match was coming. But she also kept showing up for it to get to that treat portion afterwards.
View attachment 369299
There was also a small bit of canned Rawz rabbit in the corner that I would smear her pill in before pilling. I thought it might make it easier but it never did.

I hope Morty’s appetite continues to improve. And I hope your pill skills do as well.

Morty's had sneezing/coughing/nose symptoms for a long time now so we already got rid of the air freshers and candles with the exception of our bathroom where he doesn't go. I think it's possible it may be stress induced but I think it's also possible that it's just a side effect of his asthma. I always figured the asthma was caused by allergies, but I'm not quite sure anymore.

Hah, I know that face very well. Luckily with Morty (unlike my other cats) he actually listens when we say no, so we don't normally have a counter problem with him. I hope I can find a treat meal for Morty that he actually likes, but considering raw pork is a no go I think he may be out of luck.

 

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Morty Update:

Morty is officially over the Instinct Turkey. He's become a gravy licker with the pouch version and is still eating a bit of that, but for now he's decided he's done with the cans. Luckily I was prepared for this and picked up a few other options. I refuse to give him the Royal Canon/Hills that the vets gave me (especially because it has mixed proteins like chicken and pork) but I figured I'd give the turkey baby food a try. He licked a bit but I could tell it wasn't his favorite. Anyway, I was able to get him to eat a fair enough amount of the pouch that way he was ready for his morning antibiotic. Once again he refused to swallow. No amount of nose patting/blowing, throat petting or holding his head upright will get this guy to swallow. I think he's figured it out. I've always said he was too smart for his own good. Anyway, I have no idea how much went down. I added a few squirts of water afterword (which nearly made him freak out on me) and that seemed to help a bit more go down, but from the smell I could tell a lot did not. The drooling wasn't as bad this time.

We went out and got some ground turkey to try a cook it up for him as the vet suggested, but we will see how that goes. I thought about getting the eggs as well but I might wait on that. I'm not sure how common an egg allergy is in cats but it might be best to avoid them if I can since they are a protein. Last night it looked like he ate most of his food (although it could have been my other cat Po) so it may just be these super stressful medication periods stressing him out. I'm not sure if I should call it sniffling, sneezing, snorting....but that's still happening. It almost sounds like he has a stuffed nose and is blowing out of it in rapid bursts for a couple seconds. Idk, like I mentioned before I'm going to ask my vet on Friday. He has done this in the past quite a bit so it's nothing new. He also appears to maybe be in a bit of pain again. I'm not sure but he looks a bit fluffed up and stiff on the bed. He's still really tired but I guess that's to be expected.

Meanwhile, Po loves baby food! And everything else as well....he could probably stand to lose about 3-4 pounds at this point.

 

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Morty Update:

Once again Morty spent most of his day sleeping. Since he is over Instinct turkey for now, I've introduced a few other brands that only have turkey as a protein. Many of them have other questionable ingredients, but I figure for now we can ignore that. We also tried cooking him some turkey as well. He ate a bit but wasn't a big fan, my other boys Po and Goose loved it though. Giving him his Cerenia last night was somewhat successful. When you pull his mouth open he tends to block his throat with his tongue, so at first he managed to pop it right back out of his mouth. I put it back in though and he finally swallowed it! His first and second antibiotics went down the same as usual. It appeared at least a good portion did not go down.

Around 10pm last night in between the 2 antibiotics and after the cerenia, it looks like Morty's body tried to make him throw up. That phrasing sounds strange, but basically a bit after eating his lower body started doing the vomit motions. He was sitting next to me and I could see his body pushing forward and making light "vomit" noise, but it never reached his mouth or face. I'm having trouble explaining, but it was the exact motion he would make if he was puking, but it looks like the cerenia prevented it.

He has been having more nose sniffing symptoms as well. Clearly he's allergic to something, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what it is. It happens all over the apartment, including on our bed, and at all times of the day/night. I don't live in an especially pollen/weed/tree allergy prone area anymore either. Since we've moved by the coast I've noticed even my own allergies have subsided a lot (minus my allergies to cats) so I can't see that being the problem for him.

Anyway, I'm not sure how long the B12, Folic, etc. test takes to get back, but I'm hopeful I may get a call today with the results.

 

[NJResident]

Quoting Dr. Becker, "If your veterinarian is freaked out about pathogen-controlled raw food, feed sterile raw food or gently cooked fresh food. All of these options are substantially healthier than fast-food from a bag, and the health-disruptive byproducts they contain." I don't know if you are familiar with Dr. Richard Pitcairn but he is a very famous homeopathic vet. He and his wife published several editions of a book called, Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Nautral Health for Dogs and Cats. I have the version published in 2005 and on p. 36 he states that after 25 years of experience in recommending feeding raw, he can "attest to seeing no problem with infection from these diseases (salmonella and Escherichia coli)." He goes on to say that "it doesn't necessarily mean animals can never become ill from eating raw meat, but they certainly seem less susceptible to it than people. They have much stronger stomach acids than people, and this likely protects them from a multitude of these problems." He also suggests to cook meat if you are uncomfortable about feeding raw. I generally agree with Dr. Pitcairn's principles for natural health and homeopathic remedies but I don't feed grains so I no longer use his pet food recipes. He claims non-organic meats have an alarming amount of lead (I believe it) and that a diet totally based on animal protein is generally too rich for the average pet as they are nowhere near as active as a wild animal. He feels it is safer to include some organic, protein rich grains. Of course things have changed since then. For example there's arsenic in rice and oatmeal is full of glyphosates (organic is less likely to contain them but some brands do). Anyway, I found Dr. Dym via Dr. Pitcairn's homeopathic vet directory and I was so thankful because he helped heal my Annie's gastritis so when the time comes, you may want to contact him. He is well versed on so many health issues and diets. In the meantime, here is a link to an interview Dr. Becker held with Dr. Pitcairn about homeopathy that might be of interest.
As you probably already know, anything this vet wants you to feed from a can will also be substantially more processed. I'm sure this vet thinks she knows best but she's not well versed in healthy food options and as you said, will most likely discourage you from cooking your own food. It is not selfish of you to consider cost; it is a reality and we need to consider what we can afford. It surely is cheaper and healthier to feed a home cooked diet. The high price of cans also comes from having to pay for the cans, labels for marketing; when you make it yourself that is eliminated and as you mentioned, you will avoid diabetes. I hope your fur baby is home and comfortable!

 

[NJResident]

Ok I have to say this...
OP if you’re hurting for money, please don’t spend your limited cash on homeopathy.

Homeopathic “remedies” are not harmful because they have no active ingredients. You are paying for a bottle of water and/or alcohol. Water has no “memory”, and homeopathy, a “science” invented in 1800 (a time when many doctors believed disease were caused by an imbalance of humors) by a German man who also believed that coffee was possibly the cause of most diseases, has never been proved to be an effective treatment for anything in dozens and dozens of studies over the last 200 years. It is probably the best example of a pseudoscience one could find.

I think often there’s confusion between homeopathy and natural or herbal treatments in general, but they’re absolutely not the same thing. Taking some nasty tasting echinacea drops is very different from a homeopathic mixture that “contains” echinacea.
To create a homeopathic remedy, one drop of whatever they’re saying the active ingredient is is added to 10-100 drops of water or alcohol. Then one drop of that dilute mix is added to another 10-100 drops of water or alcohol. Then one drop of that even MORE dilute mix is added to 10-100 drops of water or alcohol...and this is repeated over and over again. The final product is so dilute that it generally will not have even a single atom of the “active” ingredient present in it. It has no side effects because it has no effects at all!

Please don’t feed garlic to your cat either. It doesn’t “boost” immune systems and can cause stomach upset which is the last thing you want for a sick cat. I hope he feels better soon and you get to the bottom of his illness! He’s very cute

You are entitled to disagree with the vets I've encountered about the benefits of garlic. Dr. Richard Pitcairn (famous vet who published various editions of Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats. According to him (and my vet) it helps to eliminate worms, strengthen digestion and stimulates the intestinal tract. It is also indicated for pets who are overweight or suffer hip pain from arthritis or dysplasia. In these cases, he recommends adding fresh, grated garlic to meals (for cats 1/4 clove per day so if feeding 2 meals, 1/8 of a clove each meal). Dogs can have more depending on their size. It is also recommended to include in home cooked meals because pets enjoy the taste. I didn't go to medical school but I trust my vets and can attest that garlic has not caused any digestive upset in my dogs or cats because I follow the dosage guidelines and add a very small amount to their gently cooked recipe, which results in less than the recommended dosage above. A very large amount would need to be fed in order to cause negative effects. I'm not suggesting anyone should feed garlic to a pet who is ill or if they are uncomfortable doing so. My vet typically recommends a sick pet be fasted for a period of time (water only) or placed on a broth diet. Consult a vet experienced in nutrition in other than what comes out of a bag or can.

You are also entitled to your opinion about homeopathy by calling it pseudoscience but there are many satisfied clients who utilize it for themselves and their pets. Have you ever visited a Whole Foods or Wegman's grocery store? How about a local, health food store? They have whole aisles dedicated to homeopathic remedies. Someone must think they work. Personally, I keep a few remedies on hand for myself that work for me. I leave the remedy selection for my pets to my vet. This is not to say I don't also use herbal remedies or even traditional meds when needed. As for studies, here are a few places you can find them.
The evidence for homeopathy (Provides general info and a link to the Homeopathy Research Institute)
Research and Studies | Boiron USA (Info and PubMed)

 

[daftcat75]

You said he can't have anything less than pharmaceutical grade fish oil. Is he alright with pharmaceutical grade fish oil? Does he like it? I used to disguise the taste of medicine with Krista with salmon oil. If he likes (pharma grade) fish/salmon oil as much Krista did, maybe you can fix a small medicine meal: just enough food to mix the medicine and fish oil into.

Krista also liked sacchromyces boulardii. You can find this in a vitamin store and in Sprouts/Whole Foods in the (sometimes refrigerated) human probiotics section. The Jarrow brand is the gold standard. It's a probiotic yeast that will help with his antibiotic runny poops. Because it is a yeast, it won't be killed by the antibiotic. But the other reason why I bring up the s. boulardii is because when mixed with moisture, it becomes tacky like dough. You might try to make two or three yeast/dough balls with the s. boulardii and the liquid antibiotic and see if he wants to eat those rather than forcing it down his throat with mixed success.

This is annoying that they don't have a single 90 count. Only two packs or higher. But you should be able to find it in a brick and mortar store too.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NW49TC7/?tag=thecatsite

Here's a cheaper one but it may take longer to arrive:
Verify your identity

Something else you can try is to see if he likes the ground turkey on the more rare side. The surface is where the bacteria grows. So if you pan fry it on a low heat with no oil in the pan or maybe a just a smear of butter (if the meat is sticking) just long enough to take the pink off the surface, he might find the raw inside more to his liking. If he likes this, then maybe you can use it as your base for the medicine meal. I always found it was so much more efficient to figure out how to get Krista to take her own medicine than to try to pill her.

Another option is to get the meds compounded to a more acceptable form. Maybe transdermal, but you're already giving the Mirtaz that way and he only has two ears. Probably a flavored liquid would work with a medicine meal. The other advantage of compounding is that you might be able to increase the concentration so you can give less of it. For example, they probably have you giving a full 1 mL of clavamox. That's a a lot of liquid for a cat. If you can have that concentrated 10X, then you would only need to give 0.1 mL. Have a look at Wedgewood. They have excellent customer service if you can't find what you're looking for on their website. And they can ship fast. It might be worth it for the meds you're expected to give for a long period.

Veterinary Pharmacy

 

[Beholder]

Quoting Dr. Becker, "If your veterinarian is freaked out about pathogen-controlled raw food, feed sterile raw food or gently cooked fresh food. All of these options are substantially healthier than fast-food from a bag, and the health-disruptive byproducts they contain." I don't know if you are familiar with Dr. Richard Pitcairn but he is a very famous homeopathic vet. He and his wife published several editions of a book called, Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Nautral Health for Dogs and Cats. I have the version published in 2005 and on p. 36 he states that after 25 years of experience in recommending feeding raw, he can "attest to seeing no problem with infection from these diseases (salmonella and Escherichia coli)." He goes on to say that "it doesn't necessarily mean animals can never become ill from eating raw meat, but they certainly seem less susceptible to it than people. They have much stronger stomach acids than people, and this likely protects them from a multitude of these problems." He also suggests to cook meat if you are uncomfortable about feeding raw. I generally agree with Dr. Pitcairn's principles for natural health and homeopathic remedies but I don't feed grains so I no longer use his pet food recipes. He claims non-organic meats have an alarming amount of lead (I believe it) and that a diet totally based on animal protein is generally too rich for the average pet as they are nowhere near as active as a wild animal. He feels it is safer to include some organic, protein rich grains. Of course things have changed since then. For example there's arsenic in rice and oatmeal is full of glyphosates (organic is less likely to contain them but some brands do). Anyway, I found Dr. Dym via Dr. Pitcairn's homeopathic vet directory and I was so thankful because he helped heal my Annie's gastritis so when the time comes, you may want to contact him. He is well versed on so many health issues and diets. In the meantime, here is a link to an interview Dr. Becker held with Dr. Pitcairn about homeopathy that might be of interest.
As you probably already know, anything this vet wants you to feed from a can will also be substantially more processed. I'm sure this vet thinks she knows best but she's not well versed in healthy food options and as you said, will most likely discourage you from cooking your own food. It is not selfish of you to consider cost; it is a reality and we need to consider what we can afford. It surely is cheaper and healthier to feed a home cooked diet. The high price of cans also comes from having to pay for the cans, labels for marketing; when you make it yourself that is eliminated and as you mentioned, you will avoid diabetes. I hope your fur baby is home and comfortable!

Thank you for the information. I'll give that video a watch today! I really enjoy Dr. Becker's interviews and general informative videos. I do wish she would make more updated ones on her most watched videos though. I guess the knowledge might not have changed much, but I would love it if she did an updated raw series as well as her IBD videos.

Shockingly, the vet actually said I could give Morty cooked chicken, pork, beef, turkey and eggs right now! This was when I mentioned that he was having trouble getting an appetite, and of course they sent me home with their Hills and Royal Canon brands as well. I assume she only meant thoroughly cooked and for a short period of time, because unless I supplemented the cooked food it would pretty much just be empty calories. I don't think he could even get enough taurine from that alone.

Anyway, I 100% still disagree with the vet that feeding raw is bad for cats and that he can never have that again. I do think for right now though it may make sense. If he does have a leaky gut, or a laceration from the dehydrated turkey he can't process bacteria like a normal cat because it could be coming out of his intestines. I did watch a recent video of Dr. Becker and I know she mentioned that there are some cats with gastrointestinal issues that will need cooked food vs. raw.

And thank you, he is home and doing okay. Just having a bit of sneezing issues that have been increasing every day. I'm hoping it won't lead to another asthma attack before my vet visit of Friday because I don't have an inhaler or anything just yet that could help him.

 

[daftcat75]

I wonder if a humidifier or bringing him into a steamy bathroom might help him any. I know that's more for congestion. But I suppose it couldn't hurt to try.

 

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Morty Mini-Update:

We took a shower together! Okay, not really but kind of. He is now sneezing as well as doing his nose sniff thing. Our apartment mows the lawn on Mondays and uses leaf blowers (the bane of my existence) so this could be the reason. We are on the second floor and the windows are closed, but they are old and I know some air gets in. On a windy day so much so that it blows my curtains a bit. But that's the best one bedroom apartment we could get for 2k a month where I live sooo....

I was looking on other threads and saw the recommendation of hot, moist air. Morty wasn't happy about this but I put him in the bathroom while I showered (don't worry--I unplugged the air freshener last night and used non-scented products). This didn't work, sadly. He came out of there the same as he went in. I'm thinking about getting one of those air purifier things but I'm afraid to waste money if it doesn't help.

Also, I'm noticing some scratching around his neck. When Morty ate fish (his allergy) his biggest symptoms were vomiting, vomiting hairballs, and mild neck scratching. Asthma may have been associated as well but I don't know that for sure. I've seen him scratch at his neck 5 times in the last 30 min. They've stopped the yard work so I'll keep watching him. He is clearly really allergic to something, maybe multiple things, I just don't know what it is!

 

[Beholder]

I wonder if a humidifier or bringing him into a steamy bathroom might help him any. I know that's more for congestion. But I suppose it couldn't hurt to try.

Hah I didn't see this until after I posted my new update.

 

[daftcat75]

I assume she only meant thoroughly cooked and for a short period of time, because unless I supplemented the cooked food it would pretty much just be empty calories. I don't think he could even get enough taurine from that alone.

Not empty calories. Just not all the nutrients he needs. Meat alone will be deficient in calcium. But it's going to take more than a week or two for that to be problematic. Same with the other nutrients that meat alone lacks. You can feed him this, at least part of his calories, just to keep protein in his diet. Cats use fat and protein for energy. And of course, protein is needed for all kinds of body functions. Nothing empty about those calories. Though feeding these foods come with an opportunity cost. Feeding these unbalanced foods might displace his desire for cat food. Now if he's not eating any or not enough cat food, then yes, eating this will be better than not eating or not eating enough. And maybe it's just the compromise you need to get him through this rough spot. At least until you can see his regular vet and have his meds adjusted.

 

[daftcat75]

Morty Mini-Update:

We took a shower together! Okay, not really but kind of. He is now sneezing as well as doing his nose sniff thing. Our apartment mows the lawn on Mondays and uses leaf blowers (the bane of my existence) so this could be the reason. We are on the second floor and the windows are closed, but they are old and I know some air gets in. On a windy day so much so that it blows my curtains a bit. But that's the best one bedroom apartment we could get for 2k a month where I live sooo....

I was looking on other threads and saw the recommendation of hot, moist air. Morty wasn't happy about this but I put him in the bathroom while I showered (don't worry--I unplugged the air freshener last night and used non-scented products). This didn't work, sadly. He came out of there the same as he went in. I'm thinking about getting one of those air purifier things but I'm afraid to waste money if it doesn't help.

Also, I'm noticing some scratching around his neck. When Morty ate fish (his allergy) his biggest symptoms were vomiting, vomiting hairballs, and mild neck scratching. Asthma may have been associated as well but I don't know that for sure. I've seen him scratch at his neck 5 times in the last 30 min. They've stopped the yard work so I'll keep watching him. He is clearly really allergic to something, maybe multiple things, I just don't know what it is!

I hope the Rawz comes soon. And I hope he likes it. Maybe you can use the home-cooked proteins to see if he itches less with one or another. The homecooked proteins are good for that because you eliminate all the other ingredients that might have you wondering. But he can really only eat an unbalanced diet for two or three weeks before you have to start supplementing again. If he can have chicken, and that's easy enough to try for a few days, you can also offer him skinless KFC or the middle meat of rotisserie chicken (what hasn't been seasoned.) If he does alright with chicken, you can add EZ Complete (https://www.foodfurlife.com)--they sell sample packs for a $1--to balance it out down to a serving or a couple of servings.

 

[Beholder]

You said he can't have anything less than pharmaceutical grade fish oil. Is he alright with pharmaceutical grade fish oil? Does he like it? I used to disguise the taste of medicine with Krista with salmon oil. If he likes (pharma grade) fish/salmon oil as much Krista did, maybe you can fix a small medicine meal: just enough food to mix the medicine and fish oil into.

Krista also liked sacchromyces boulardii. You can find this in a vitamin store and in Sprouts/Whole Foods in the (sometimes refrigerated) human probiotics section. The Jarrow brand is the gold standard. It's a probiotic yeast that will help with his antibiotic runny poops. Because it is a yeast, it won't be killed by the antibiotic. But the other reason why I bring up the s. boulardii is because when mixed with moisture, it becomes tacky like dough. You might try to make two or three yeast/dough balls with the s. boulardii and the liquid antibiotic and see if he wants to eat those rather than forcing it down his throat with mixed success.

This is annoying that they don't have a single 90 count. Only two packs or higher. But you should be able to find it in a brick and mortar store too.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NW49TC7/?tag=thecatsite

Here's a cheaper one but it may take longer to arrive:
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Something else you can try is to see if he likes the ground turkey on the more rare side. The surface is where the bacteria grows. So if you pan fry it on a low heat with no oil in the pan or maybe a just a smear of butter (if the meat is sticking) just long enough to take the pink off the surface, he might find the raw inside more to his liking. If he likes this, then maybe you can use it as your base for the medicine meal. I always found it was so much more efficient to figure out how to get Krista to take her own medicine than to try to pill her.

Another option is to get the meds compounded to a more acceptable form. Maybe transdermal, but you're already giving the Mirtaz that way and he only has two ears. Probably a flavored liquid would work with a medicine meal. The other advantage of compounding is that you might be able to increase the concentration so you can give less of it. For example, they probably have you giving a full 1 mL of clavamox. That's a a lot of liquid for a cat. If you can have that concentrated 10X, then you would only need to give 0.1 mL. Have a look at Wedgewood. They have excellent customer service if you can't find what you're looking for on their website. And they can ship fast. It might be worth it for the meds you're expected to give for a long period.

Veterinary Pharmacy

Oh that may be a good idea. I'm not sure if he likes it because I've only ever mixed it in with his raw food. I will give him some in a sec and we can see. Both of the antibiotics have very strong, sweetish smells to them though. I think he would probably know immediately if I tried mixing it with anything. The Cerenia is the only pill he is still on so maybe I could try with that.

I will give that a look. I am not sure yet if he's still having the poop problems (it can be hard with three cats) but he's not sitting in there attempting to go so I think it may have cleared up. I'll try and look closer when I clean the litter boxes though. Does it have any kind of flavor? I think I would have a hard time getting him to eat a dough-like ball.

As for the meat cooking, apologies as I'm vegan and don't make this for myself, isn't the meat cooked through when it's not pink anymore? Are you supposed to cook it longer? Or do you mean the top surface of the meat--like not getting the pink off of the middle but just the top/bottom?

They are having me give him 1ml of one, and .5 of the other twice a day. And thank you, I didn't realize he could get it in a concentrated form. One of the antibiotics is just for 3 more days, but the other of 1ml of the Orbax is for another 17 days. I always assumed they prescribed extra in each dose for cats that don't get it all down their throats, but maybe that was a bad assumption.

 

[Beholder]

I hope the Rawz comes soon. And I hope he likes it. Maybe you can use the home-cooked proteins to see if he itches less with one or another. The homecooked proteins are good for that because you eliminate all the other ingredients that might have you wondering. But he can really only eat an unbalanced diet for two or three weeks before you have to start supplementing again. If he can have chicken, and that's easy enough to try for a few days, you can also offer him skinless KFC or the middle meat of rotisserie chicken (what hasn't been seasoned.) If he does alright with chicken, you can add EZ Complete (https://www.foodfurlife.com)--they sell sample packs for a $1--to balance it out down to a serving or a couple of servings.

It's good to know it's not empty calories. The Rawz frustratingly shipped today. I was thinking about potentially switching his protein source in case he has a turkey allergy now. I think it's possible as well since turkey and later chicken were the main proteins we gave him when originally finding the fish allergy. I ordered some Alnutrin for non-bone and it says on the website that it can be used with cooked meats, it just has to be applied after the cooking is done. That should be here today. I also placed and order from HT last week that should be here Thursday or Friday. I got turkey thigh with turkey heart and chicken liver (they were out of turkey liver). I also ordered ground venison, venison liver and venison heart, as well as ground duck, heart, liver. He has never had duck before and only venison from a can, which he really, really liked. I thought about pork because I know he loves it but I don't see that as a protein usually recommended for allergies. Anyway, I figured the organs I could put through my food processor and I know feline-nutrition has a good recipe to follow that includes these ingredients.

Basically I tried to cover all my bases to make sure if it came to it I would have an alternative to feed him. So now we have various turkey canned foods, venison cans, ground turkey from the store, rawz order coming, alnutrin coming, HT order of venison/turkey/duck coming. Luckily if he can't eat one or more of these I have two other cats that eat just about anything. I also have some probiotics already here for him but I'm not going to bother with that until he's off the meds. I'm debating getting some eggs as well...the vet put the idea in my mind and I know he's never had them cooked before. He's mainly only had the chicken and quail eggs from Tiki Cat foods.

Side note, my fiance who's also vegan is so unsettled by all this meat in our apartment now. I have a giant freezer with about 70 pounds currently that will increase to 100ish soon. He thinks we're bad vegans or something but I told him it's literally the same thing as opening a can of cat food, it just looks different. There's no vegan cats and we adopted these boys from the shelter as adults, so it's not like we bred them or anything. Either way they would have needed to eat. Sorry I just needed that small rant hah.

 

[fionasmom]

I am a vegan; tell your boyfriend to get over it. Cats are obligate carnivores and there is nothing that you can do about it. If he is reading advice from PETA....who do confront many serious animal issues....they are wrong about the idea of a vegan cat. Sadly, the fact that some people are vegans has not really saved that many animals nor made much of an impact on the slaughterhouse and animal practices.