Difficult Ethical Question On Euthanesia Of Beloved Cat, Help

[Sylvia Grace]

I think you're doing the right thing by treating Puma's infection. If it has a chance of improving his quality of life and giving him some more good time with you it'll definitely be worth it. Especially if the injection works and you don't need to give him a bunch of pills. I'll likely be giving my terminally ill cat, Heisenberg, antibiotics for a respiratory infection. He perked up a bit after getting some subcutaneous fluids, so he's not ready to go yet!

 

[dustydiamond1]

I think you're doing the right thing by treating Puma's infection. If it has a chance of improving his quality of life and giving him some more good time with you it'll definitely be worth it. Especially if the injection works and you don't need to give him a bunch of pills. I'll likely be giving my terminally ill cat, Heisenberg, antibiotics for a respiratory infection. He perked up a bit after getting some subcutaneous fluids, so he's not ready to go yet!

 

[dustydiamond1]

I can only remember so far back, but I know CHF or any cardiac problems can make a person (or pet) feel wiped out. The meds may have made him fatigued and nauseated, and if the vet is confident in skipping a dose, I'd go for it.
It seems wild that this came on so fast! It's scary and a grim reminder that none of ourselves or our animals that are happy and healthy currently are exempt from the cruel possibility of a sudden illness like this.
You're absolutely right, we do the best we can but sometimes it's just not enough, sometimes nothing is enough yet those things we do sometimes are more than we ever thought we'd ever do in the first place. We spend hours and hours and hours trying to find an answer and only become exhausted by it.
I have however detected appreciation in those who were very ill when they were given all they wanted, as well a time to rest and the freedom to choose where they wanted to hang out. Our dog with CHF wanted to be with us, and hated being left so we set up "stations" in the house and carried him into the room we were planning on being in for awhile, and would carry him to the bedroom at bedtime, etc. Another (a cat) had a separate condo type cage for resting and didn't seem to mind being left to his own (the condo was beside our bed) so we didn't bother moving it and upsetting him, etc. I think they appreciate that, I really do.

 

[dustydiamond1]

Sharing that sadness with you. I kept hoping to see that things with you and Jess (Zoe) had gotten a little better. Heartache doesn't even begin to describe that feeling when our friends are very ill.
I'll keep you in my thoughts tomorrow. Just know people here care and many have experienced something very similar to what you're going through. It hurts.
I know a good night sleep for you both is probably out of the cards, but I'll wish for it anyways.
Hugs, friend.

 

[dustydiamond1]

Thank you both, Ara and Dusty Diamond. I think I'll probably take a good picture, keep it digitally and perhaps blow a copy of it up into a nice size and frame it.
Another option someone mentioned was maybe hanging something over it, it's not a huge mural and those tin panels would look nice on the area. I could "get rid of it" without "getting rid of it" that way.

Most excellent idea. I didn't realize it didn't cover the whole wall. Post a pic for us.

 

[dustydiamond1]

I wish you lived down the street and I could momentarily drop by for a hug? Thanks for support.

 

[dustydiamond1]

Likewise!!

Maybe someone here will win the lotto and build a cat site community and everyone will have a private jet to get to and from for in person moral support and laughs and all that stuff. Hey I can dream, right?

There are only one or two people in my life currently that realize cats are important to those who love them. Non-cat people don't get this. Sometimes non-dog people don't get this (when speaking of those in the dog world). And there is this really weird rift between the two that rarely mesh as one.

Then there are the folks that don't believe that dogs OR cats are "as important" as humans and proceed to rank order things ("humans first, dogs second, cats a distant third", etc.) and my reply is so what? What does this matter? Aren't love, compassion, friendship, and humanity four of the most important things on this planet, and aren't all four of those things absolutely free? One single is capable of unlimited, unconditional love and humanity and all those things towards all living beings. It isn't difficult and doesn't cost a cent. So as Dusty Diamond said, Phooey on those outside idiots who feel love, compassion, friendship and humanity needs to be stupidly ranked by importance by their own feeble minds. We know that there's no limit to it. Aren't we lucky?

Personally i have always been an animals first, good people 2nd and most people last, kind of girl.
One thing that makes my blood boil are the sanctimonious idiots who say animals can't go to Heaven cause they don't have souls. Balderdash I say! In the first place if my non-human family members aren't there with me it isn't going to be Heaven for me. And secondly how can anyone look deep in the eye of an animal especially one who loves you and say they don't have souls? Bah! People can be so stupid.

 

[nansiludie]

Personally i have always been an animals first, good people 2nd and most people last, kind of girl.
One thing that makes my blood boil are the sanctimonious idiots who say animals can't go to Heaven cause they don't have souls. Balderdash I say! In the first place if my non-human family members aren't there with me it isn't going to be Heaven for me. And secondly how can anyone look deep in the eye of an animal especially one who loves you and say they don't have souls? Bah! People can be so stupid.

 

[1 bruce 1]

Personally i have always been an animals first, good people 2nd and most people last, kind of girl.
One thing that makes my blood boil are the sanctimonious idiots who say animals can't go to Heaven cause they don't have souls. Balderdash I say! In the first place if my non-human family members aren't there with me it isn't going to be Heaven for me. And secondly how can anyone look deep in the eye of an animal especially one who loves you and say they don't have souls? Bah! People can be so stupid.

Oh man!!! You're after my own heart!

Have you read There is Eternal Life For Animals by Niki Behrikis Shanahan? What an outstanding book; she dedicated it to her cat. It, and many other books, have helped me. One book talked with children (some teens, some very young; 4 or 5 years) that had experienced NDE and accurately described events that took place after their "death" and spoke of family and pets greeting them. A 4 year old can't make this stuff up and would have no basis or reason to do so!
The idea of only humans having souls or experiencing some kind of afterlife is IMO our way of placing ourselves in a higher place than we were meant to. I think we're important and special in the eyes of our Creator, but I also don't think we would have been given the very simple task of caring for earth and the living things on it if we were meant to sit around and talk about how great we were and how crappy everything else was. I don't think those things would have been created at all if there was no plan to "keep them around", so to speak.
I am with you, if they're not there, it's not Heaven. (Ps.37:4!)
(I don't mean to hijack this thread, or start a religious debate, so please don't ban me!)

 

[ara11]

Its ok - no one is banned from this thread. I often think about the animal and soul issue. who are any of us to say this creature has a soul or this was doesn't?

Todays dilemma: Puma is now on 2 additional antibiotics twice a day. Torture. I got one down but not the other. Adding to stress, forgive me, is my ex coming to help. A man who was out of my life due to abusive behavior is now back to help the cat. He too cannot pill him but wants to keep trying. The cat scratched me - blood first time in a decade- and ran under bed where he cant be captured and my ex doesn't want to give up. I got him to leave and posted on neighborhood newsletter if anyone can pill a cat? Meanwhile I told ex that if missing a dose is so crucial to his existence then I especially don't want to torture him and make his last moments miserable. He now feels I'm not doing the right thing for my cat. I'm sinking into darkness here. Ive called mobile vet service - closed on sunday, Ive contacted people off craigslist but they lived too far away. he gets morning dose at vets. Pill pockets on way from amazon. Vet didn't want to give me injection since he said the 2 pills include more pathogens. I'm rambling but I don't see how this ends well.

 

[laura mae]

Don't let the ex use your cat as a way to make you feel badly about your efforts here. Aside from that, I would never be able to pill 2 of my cats--who are patients of a vet practice that is totally about pilling rather than compounding. The vet that the others go to, have a vet tech on hand that can compound medications they already use into flavored liquid forms. The forms they do not carry, they will refer to a compounding pharmacy. The compounding pharmacy in my town serves a lot of pets. And they even compounded some specialty meds that my Etta had to take at the end of her days. It truly made it easier. She still didn't care for it, but it made it less torturesome.

Does your vet sell pill pockets? Do you live by Petsmart or Petco? They sell pill pockets. Unfortunately when a cat has no appetite, they may not choose to eat a pill pocket either.

Even when Jeffery was feeling like crap, he still liked butter so that might be something to coat the antibiotic in. But that only works when a cat will let you open his mouth and put the pill in. I'm totally familiar with the running, hiding, hissing, scratching though and that's a cat that it doesn't matter unless they are willing to eat whatever you put the medication in.

 

[1 bruce 1]

I'm all about Laura Mae's suggestion of using butter, but even if opening the mouth is difficult you can use butter that's spreadable or room temperature and smear it on their mouth/whisker area. Most cats, even those that aren't eating well, will clean this off. If the pill is tiny, the pill would probably go down with the butter but if it's large, you could crush it first and "roll" that bit of butter in the powder from the pill.

 

[ara11]

My pill pockets just arrived from Amazon. I put his baytril in it and tried to have him take it. He is now in cold tub floor to be away from me and the pill pocket. We were so bonded in past now I feel like I am the person he needs but wants to stay away from. I left pillpocket on floor in bathroom. He doesn't look like his photo anymore but like a cat out of a steven king novel. Thanks for answering. It helps me stay sane a little.

 

[Sylvia Grace]

Poor baby. My mom and I pill my Heisenberg by wrapping him up in a blanket tight like a burrito with his back feet on the bed, then I wrap my left arm around him and use my right hand to immobilize his head against my chest while mom shoots the pill down the back of his throat with a cat piller/pill gun we got from the vet. He hates it, but it's reasonably painless for all of us when she can get the angle of the pill gun right.

 

[ara11]

I put an sos on neighborhood newsletter and a kind man will come over tonight to try and use a piller gun. He says he wants cat in sink where it cant crawl away and will try. If that fails....

 

[Sylvia Grace]

Good luck!!!

 

[KJMissy]

My precious 11 year old took ill 4 days ago out of the blue. His diagnosis was compounded by his presenting disease that may have had nothing to do with the 2ndary one... I will never know.
I took him to family vet for vomiting 8 times. He was discharged hours later after an anti emetic and no vomiting. Once home he was drooling and hiding so we went to emergency clinic. He was tested and xrayed and given anti emetic and fluids and antibiotics for fever. The fluids were stopped when an ultra sound showed some vague questionable cardiac problems. After 2 days there the internist was so worried she felt he needed an ASAP echocardiogram at another facility where he was seen by a cardiologist who diagnosed CHF and mitral stenosis (rare in cats he said) and hypotension, also unusual with all that.
The shock is overwhelming and his prognosis is suddenly poor. (He offered euthanasia). He went from wonderful happy eating everything and being loving to a day of vomiting to a death sentence. They said the nausea and vomiting had nothing to do with the CHF-- but was he going along fine with that or did it become acute because he vomited? I have him home. He doesn't eat or drink and I shoot meds down his throat adding to his misery and freaking out . He is sitting outside on the porch and doesn't want to be inside with me. He does look outside. I don't want to keep him alive for me but I do want to if he wants to live. This wasn't an aging cat. This all JUST happened. Based on the cardiologist report, the other dr too now says we don't want him to suffer. He has no pain. They say he can throw a clot at any time and that would be painful. But it can be days or weeks or...
What do I do? Do I force meds down his throat so he can hopefully live or do I let him go? Will making him miserable with these meds add to his quality of life if he gets used to them? Will they help even tho they cant change his heart? They also said letting him not eat or drink is a horrible way to die (but he wont eat or drink unless I force feed him) . I am beside myself. I'm crying but what is he doing or thinking?
I would like to know what any of you in similar situations did? My other cat who also loved him has distanced herself from him and hisses at him now.

My ally has been sick and the first

My precious 11 year old took ill 4 days ago out of the blue. His diagnosis was compounded by his presenting disease that may have had nothing to do with the 2ndary one... I will never know.
I took him to family vet for vomiting 8 times. He was discharged hours later after an anti emetic and no vomiting. Once home he was drooling and hiding so we went to emergency clinic. He was tested and xrayed and given anti emetic and fluids and antibiotics for fever. The fluids were stopped when an ultra sound showed some vague questionable cardiac problems. After 2 days there the internist was so worried she felt he needed an ASAP echocardiogram at another facility where he was seen by a cardiologist who diagnosed CHF and mitral stenosis (rare in cats he said) and hypotension, also unusual with all that.
The shock is overwhelming and his prognosis is suddenly poor. (He offered euthanasia). He went from wonderful happy eating everything and being loving to a day of vomiting to a death sentence. They said the nausea and vomiting had nothing to do with the CHF-- but was he going along fine with that or did it become acute because he vomited? I have him home. He doesn't eat or drink and I shoot meds down his throat adding to his misery and freaking out . He is sitting outside on the porch and doesn't want to be inside with me. He does look outside. I don't want to keep him alive for me but I do want to if he wants to live. This wasn't an aging cat. This all JUST happened. Based on the cardiologist report, the other dr too now says we don't want him to suffer. He has no pain. They say he can throw a clot at any time and that would be painful. But it can be days or weeks or...
What do I do? Do I force meds down his throat so he can hopefully live or do I let him go? Will making him miserable with these meds add to his quality of life if he gets used to them? Will they help even tho they cant change his heart? They also said letting him not eat or drink is a horrible way to die (but he wont eat or drink unless I force feed him) . I am beside myself. I'm crying but what is he doing or thinking?
I would like to know what any of you in similar situations did? My other cat who also loved him has distanced herself from him and hisses at him now.

my ally is going on 15 days sick. First diagnosis was CHF now they don’t have a clue. But she been on lasix, prednisone and ABT. The lasix made her what I thought sicker. And then she started wheezing badly and they thought she could be starting to have a blood clot. another X-ray and lab no blood clot. But I feel for you. I am not sure myself how long I am willing to keep doing this unless they can actually find out what the issue is and it’s fixable. The medication for her isn’t helping. Prayers sent your way hoping the best

 

[ara11]

Updates,
the man was so kind and helpful. He used the pill pusher and we sat Puma in sink.
The next morning Puma ran and cried at vets so I thought, we cant do that again to him. So the man came again this morning to pill him and will come again this pm. I gave him a gift certificate since he refused money and he didn't want that either and I began to cry. I am wired so tightly these days, so he accepted it. I lost 2 baytril in pill pockets so Puma is done with that and only has augmentin and his heart meds. I want to stop by Friday but the man said lets see how it goes.
Ive looked everywhere for explanations on a cat with mitral stenosis with LOW blood pressure in CHF who presents acutely with nausea and vomiting and cant find it. I wonder originally if they should have treated the infection before freaking over the heart? It doesn't matter now. They did say the 2 might not be related.
Emotionally I am like a half dead person going through motions. When he is good, I'm ok. When he is bad, I'm a shadow person.
He now eats and drinks a little. where he pees, I don't always know. I don't think he goes to litter box.

 

[Sylvia Grace]

It sounds like you have a wonderful man helping you and Puma out. Treating the infection might still improve his quality of life. My Heisenberg is in the same boat with his cancer, he's not eating or drinking a lot and doesn't always make it to the litterbox in time. I know exactly how you feel with having a cat as sick as ours are. I can relax when Heisenberg is having a good day and isn't obviously uncomfortable, but when he's having a bad day and is visibly miserable I'm an emotional mess.

Sending Puma and you lots of love and wishes for comfort and peace!

 

[ara11]

Last night Puma vomited his last antibiotic. So that's it. No more pills for awhile. I celebrated his release with a glass of wine and entire family size bag of chips

He woke me at 3am vomited again. I got up at 6and gave breakfast, he ate a little and disappeared into garage - his new hiding spot. Its the ups and downs....and the fear he will die somewhere I cant find. Black cats disappear into shadows.