Slippery Elm Bark, Wet food, Managing Constipation

[abbyntim]

 
Just to be clear, canned grain free food doesn't cause constipation in my cats.  Just the kibble.

Very interesting this happened to your cats. My cat Tim was on grain-free kibble both times he became severely constipated. The first time was Blue Buffalo Wilderness in chicken and the second time was Taste of the Wild Rocky Mountain Feline (salmon and venison, but really, mostly chicken). After the second time, when we realized we needed to make significant changes (we added a water fountain and extra water sources after the first time) and I started researching, I read somewhere that high-protein dry food is extremely dehydrating. I don't remember where, and I wish I could, but that has stuck with me. Both times Tim had to get cleared out, the vets told us it was extremely dry and like concrete, and felt the problem was dehydration, despite the fact that Tim was constantly drinking water.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

I wouldn't think grain-free is the problem when it comes to constipation, but perhaps a lack of fiber, which some cats need. In trading grain-free food for something loaded with the wrong kinds of carbs, you might be inviting weight gain. I seem to recall that Rocky Mountain Feline has a lot of potato in it. Just something to keep in mind.

The Orijen is grain-free, but it contains sources of fiber such as pumpkin, peas, lentils, which may be beneficial in preventing constipation. There are other similar foods. When you are out looking, try and stay clear of foods with potatoes, sweet potatoes, near or at the top of the ingredients list.

I have not read anywhere, that high protein dry food is more dehydrating than any other? If water is what hydrates a cat, it is the lack of water that dehydrates.

 

[tdonline]

Abby, I could probably go back and search my early posting history to find the board member who pointed out grain free kibble might have been the reason for my cats' constipation.  Sure enough, as soon as I stopped feeding it, my cats returned to their regular schedule.  The constipation wasn't severe, but noticeable in terms of instead of going every 24-36 hours, they were going every 36-60 hours or so.  

I was mildly surprised that my well intentioned efforts to feed a better brand of kibble would cause more problems for the cats, but in this case, it was better for my cats to 'step down' from grain free.  It's probably a rare case and may not even be the reason for scorpion's cats' constipation.  But it's an easy enough solution to try.  If it's not the reason, at least she/he will have eliminated one potential cause.

 

[scorpgirl68]

 
Abby, I could probably go back and search my early posting history to find the board member who pointed out grain free kibble might have been the reason for my cats' constipation.  Sure enough, as soon as I stopped feeding it, my cats returned to their regular schedule.  The constipation wasn't severe, but noticeable in terms of instead of going every 24-36 hours, they were going every 36-60 hours or so.

I was mildly surprised that my well intentioned efforts to feed a better brand of kibble would cause more problems for the cats, but in this case, it was better for my cats to 'step down' from grain free.  It's probably a rare case and may not even be the reason for scorpion's cats' constipation.  But it's an easy enough solution to try.  If it's not the reason, at least she/he will have eliminated one potential cause.

Still driving myself crazy researching quality cat foods both dry and wet for my boys. The Natural Balance canned I have been feeding has careenegen in it but am having a hard time finding a canned that doesn't that my finicky eaters will eat. As far as dry, I am still feeding Brody (thin one) Evo as he turns his nose up at everything else and I don't want to introduce too many things at one time. For Zuri (constipated one) I added Hill's Ideal Balance, which is a whole-grain (I would still like to stick to no corn/soy/wheat as long as I am able) to his Merrick until I can get him acclimated but the carb content of the new is too high as I have discovered, so onto the next food site...

Constipation still seems to be more of a retention issue as the stools are firm not hard/dry but still not in the box. I'm going to try to get all three of us psych evaluations.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Still driving myself crazy researching quality cat foods both dry and wet for my boys. The Natural Balance canned I have been feeding has careenegen in it but am having a hard time finding a canned that doesn't that my finicky eaters will eat. As far as dry, I am still feeding Brody (thin one) Evo as he turns his nose up at everything else and I don't want to introduce too many things at one time. For Zuri (constipated one) I added Hill's Ideal Balance, which is a whole-grain (I would still like to stick to no corn/soy/wheat as long as I am able) to his Merrick until I can get him acclimated but the carb content of the new is too high as I have discovered, so onto the next food site...

Constipation still seems to be more of a retention issue as the stools are firm not hard/dry but still not in the box. I'm going to try to get all three of us psych evaluations.

Here are a few carageenan-free canned food brands :

Nature's Logic - All canned formulas

Nature's Variety - All "Instinct" formulas

Fromm "Four Star" Grain-Free

Tiki Cat (select formulas):

Hawaiian Grill (Ahi Tuna)
Puka Puka Luau (Chicken in Chicken Consomme)
Koolina Luau (Chicken w/ Egg in Chicken Consomme)
Hanalei Luau (Wild Salmon in Salmon Consomme)
Napili Luau (Wild Salmon & Chicken in Chicken Consomme)
Hookena Luau (Ahi Tuna & Chicken in Chicken Consomme)
Papeekeo Luau (Ahi Tuna & Mackerel in Tuna Consomme)
Manana Luau (Ahí Tuna w/ Tiger Prawns in Tuna Consomme)
Hana Luau (Ahi Tuna w/ Crab in Tuna Consomme)

Weruva

Hound & Gatos (This doesn't contain carageenan, but does contain guar gum xanthum gum)

Fancy Feast pates

Authority

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Abby, I could probably go back and search my early posting history to find the board member who pointed out grain free kibble might have been the reason for my cats' constipation.  Sure enough, as soon as I stopped feeding it, my cats returned to their regular schedule.  The constipation wasn't severe, but noticeable in terms of instead of going every 24-36 hours, they were going every 36-60 hours or so.  

I was mildly surprised that my well intentioned efforts to feed a better brand of kibble would cause more problems for the cats, but in this case, it was better for my cats to 'step down' from grain free.  It's probably a rare case and may not even be the reason for scorpion's cats' constipation.  But it's an easy enough solution to try.  If it's not the reason, at least she/he will have eliminated one potential cause.

Hi there .. Your recent posts got me wondering how Dory is doing? Are you still administering the cisapride or prozac?

 

[scorpgirl68]

 
scorpgirl,

Are you feeding grain-free dry food?  My cats became constipated when I decided to go grain-free everything shortly after I adopted them. When I backed off on grain-free kibble, they became regular again.  That was about 5 years ago.  Their recent issues with constipation were related to medication and stress.

Their daily diet is 4-5 ounces of canned food along with 1-2 tablespoons of kibble.  I feed California Natural limited ingredients chicken and rice.  My cats are 10.5-11.5 pounds.

Are you feeding the canned Cali Nat? If not, what canned do you feed? Sorry if you already answered.

 

[tdonline]

 
Are you feeding the canned Cali Nat? If not, what canned do you feed? Sorry if you already answered.

One of my cats is much fussier about canned food than kibble.  She will only really eat Wellness Chicken with gusto.  I mix in Evo, BG, Performtrain, Natural Balance, etc to diversify her grain-free food.  But in order to get her to eat these brands, I have to mix in Friskies, Fancy Feast or Grrreat Choice.  My cats eat mostly chicken.  Red meat makes them sick (and a little constipated).  They're not super crazy about turkey or duck but will eat them when mixed with the 'bad' canned food.  Finally, I don't feed fish as a primary food.

 

[tdonline]

 
Hi there .. Your recent posts got me wondering how Dory is doing? Are you still administering the cisapride or prozac?

Thanks for asking.  Cisapride was only given for 20 doses as the logic was to restart her system, not use it for indefinite duration.  I'm in the final stages of weaning them off prozac.  They're taking 1.6mg every 4 days.  I actually had planned to stop on 6/30 but I ran out of Feliway and didn't want to start their non-prozac life without Feliway dispensers in full blast.  Once the delivery arrives, I'll stop the prozac altogether.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Thanks for asking.  Cisapride was only given for 20 doses as the logic was to restart her system, not use it for indefinite duration.  I'm in the final stages of weaning them off prozac.  They're taking 1.6mg every 4 days.  I actually had planned to stop on 6/30 but I ran out of Feliway and didn't want to start their non-prozac life without Feliway dispensers in full blast.  Once the delivery arrives, I'll stop the prozac altogether.

Sounds very sensible .. As to my other question, how is Dory doing in general, and in particular, the BM department?

 

[tdonline]

Oh, Dory's doing alright.  She's still pretty much on a every other day schedule.  Sometimes she skips two days and sometimes she goes back to back days.  All in all it averages it out to every other day.  Last week she and her sister each went 4 times.  And they both went yesterday and haven't today so they're on their usual schedule.  They'll have their annual vet visit in two weeks and at that time, I may ask the vet if we should consider another short round of Cisapride to get them on a daily schedule?  I have a feeling he may balk and think it's over-medicating a situation.  

The issue for Dory now is hairballs.  Brushing, Lecithin, petroleum jelly and fish oil haven't resolved the problem entirely. I suspect a faster gut motility system would help.  Dory is a DSH, but her fur is very soft and full.  It's beautiful but the fur's probably really hard to digest entirely.  Josie, on the other hand, has less luxurious fur and hardly ever suffers from hairballs. I ordered Vet Best Hairball, but am concerned the key ingredients may bring back the constipation.  I tried SEB a few months ago and it seemed to make their constipation worse.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

@tdonline: I must say that I am very pleased to hear this report. You have been on quite a journey with your girls, and by the sounds of it, they are both doing very well. For a lady who was going as long as five days without a BM, I think Dory's improvement is huge.

Sorry to hear about the hairballs. Its been a banner year for many cats it seems. Max too has been dealing with this recently, which is REALLY unusual for him. In all of the time that Max has been with us, I have never seen him bring up a hairball, until this year. That said, I was happy to see them come up. Better out than in.

.

I haven't tried Vet's Best, as no one seems to be able to get it here in my neck of the woods, but I would imagine that one could make up a reasonable alternative. My local health food store where I get SEB, carries marshmallow root and psyllium powder which are the other ingredients, so I may just make up a batch, and see what kind of results we get.

I have not experienced the opposite effect of SEB causing constipation to be worse, but if you suspect that this is the case, you might want to look into the marshmallow root in combination with psyllium, without SEB, as an alternate mix, and see if this can help.

 

[tdonline]

Never a moment's rest.  Dory had some very soft poo over the weekend but had a solid movement last night.  Josie, though, continues to have diarrhea.  I've been racking my brain as to what is the cause.  On Friday there was major upheaval as I had new carpet installed in the apartment.  I wonder if it was a stressor?  Did the removal/installation of carpet bring up anything my cats inhaled/ingested?  I'm not quite sure because I think Josie's poo was soft starting from Thursday evening so that predates the carpet installation.

On Saturday, both cats upchucked hairballs.  Now this is unusual because Josie very, very rarely has hairballs.  I wonder if this is a hairball issue?  Could the diarrhea be moving around an immovable hairball?  Anyone experienced this type of diarrhea before?  Josie's diarrhea isn't explosive or a lot, but it's not tiny little squirts either.  I would think if it's moving around a blockage, it would be more of the latter?

I'm cutting out supplements, isolating foods and starting anew.  I threw away opened cans of food and gave them a fresh can of Wellness last night.  Both Josie and Dory finished their dinner.  They were probably ravenous as I had given them only some dry food during the day.  I wanted to see if it was canned foods that giving them problems.  Josie used the litter box about 6 hours after dinner and again the poo was very soft.  I don't think it's a dire situation yet as she's not constantly going to the litter box and I haven't seen any blood.   No fever. Her anus is a little irritated.  She's pooing about 2/3 times a day.  This morning, they had Wellness again (same large can).  Dory lapped it all up but Josie only ate about half.  That's very unlike her.  It makes me think if there is indeed a hairball deep down?  Last night's dinner hasn't moved all the way out--so there's no room for breakfast?  

EDIT: As I posted, I noticed Josie was chewing on the carpet.  The new carpet has some debris and loose fibers.  We did vacuum after installation but not everything was picked up.  I wonder if that's complicating the issue.

I have SEB capsules and thought about adding it to her food in hopes of firming up the poo.  But if there is a mass of hairball and/or carpet fibers, would firming up her poo makes things much worse?

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Never a moment's rest.  Dory had some very soft poo over the weekend but had a solid movement last night.  Josie, though, continues to have diarrhea.  I've been racking my brain as to what is the cause.  On Friday there was major upheaval as I had new carpet installed in the apartment.  I wonder if it was a stressor?  Did the removal/installation of carpet bring up anything my cats inhaled/ingested?  I'm not quite sure because I think Josie's poo was soft starting from Thursday evening so that predates the carpet installation.

On Saturday, both cats upchucked hairballs.  Now this is unusual because Josie very, very rarely has hairballs.  I wonder if this is a hairball issue?  Could the diarrhea be moving around an immovable hairball?  Anyone experienced this type of diarrhea before?  Josie's diarrhea isn't explosive or a lot, but it's not tiny little squirts either.  I would think if it's moving around a blockage, it would be more of the latter?

I'm cutting out supplements, isolating foods and starting anew.  I threw away opened cans of food and gave them a fresh can of Wellness last night.  Both Josie and Dory finished their dinner.  They were probably ravenous as I had given them only some dry food during the day.  I wanted to see if it was canned foods that giving them problems.  Josie used the litter box about 6 hours after dinner and again the poo was very soft.  I don't think it's a dire situation yet as she's not constantly going to the litter box and I haven't seen any blood.   No fever. Her anus is a little irritated.  She's pooing about 2/3 times a day.  This morning, they had Wellness again (same large can).  Dory lapped it all up but Josie only ate about half.  That's very unlike her.  It makes me think if there is indeed a hairball deep down?  Last night's dinner hasn't moved all the way out--so there's no room for breakfast?  

EDIT: As I posted, I noticed Josie was chewing on the carpet.  The new carpet has some debris and loose fibers.  We did vacuum after installation but not everything was picked up.  I wonder if that's complicating the issue.

I have SEB capsules and thought about adding it to her food in hopes of firming up the poo.  But if there is a mass of hairball and/or carpet fibers, would firming up her poo makes things much worse?

Hi tdonline ... Sorry to hear about this latest bit of trouble .. It could be that the recent activities involving the carpet installation, may have caused some intestinal upset, but I am more inclined to think that the cause is hairballs, some food that might have been off, or a bug of some kind? Have you changed diet in any way, different brand or variety of food?

The lack of appetite may be on account of Josie just not feeling herself which can happen from time to time, but if she continues to consume less than she normally does, I would call or get her into the vet. As far as chewing the carpet, a bit of carpet fiber is probably nothing to worry about, but obviously it is important to ensure that she doesn't continue ingesting carpet. I would go ahead and add some SEB to Josie's feedings, as this can help to correct the diarrhea, alleviate any nausea she may be feeling and help to pass hairballs, if she is still dealing with some. SEB is not bulk-forming like psyllium, so I wouldn't worry too much about this aspect.

Hope this helps .. Positive vibes that she is feeling better soon

 

[tdonline]

One, I gave Josie one small dose of SEB Monday night.  Yesterday I came home to soft poop in the box.  It looked like a regular size BM but just not well formed.  So I'm rethinking the hairball issue.  If it was a hairball in the way, wouldn't there be more like squirts (getting around the blockage)?  The improvement is that this cat (I'm assuming Josie) only went once yesterday.  So it's not the type of diarrhea where she is going multiple times a day and is dehydrated.  There was also solid BM and I assume this was Dory's.

Last night I received Vet's Best Hairball and gave each cat 1/4 tablet.  Just now, someone...left liquid poo in the box and brand new carpet.  Ugh.   Logically it should be Josie but neither cat had a pooey butt which I think would be evident if there was very liquid poo?

I'm waiting on a call from the vet to discuss.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

@tdonline : How is Josie doing today? I assume by now you have talked with the vet. What did he/she have to say?

Sorry to hear about the accident on the new carpet. Hope this came out okay .. It's hard to say what is going on with the diarrhea in connection with hairballs. I have had next to nothing in the way of experience with this in my cats. If this continues, you could take a sample in to have analyzed. If you are giving the Vet's Best, I would stop the SEB for the time being, as the VB has SEB, Marshmallow Root, psyllium and digestive enzymes.

Continued vibes for Josie ..

 

[tdonline]

I know nothing...apparently.  I did talk to the vet and his advice was to feed kibble for a couple of days to see if that would help Josie firm up her poo.  The problem is she vomited undigested kibble within minutes of feeding.  Which once again brings up whether it's a hairball.

But get this...this morning Dory pooped and it was just a tiny liquid clump.  Darn.  I thought she only had the issue over the weekend.  I really need to narrow down the issue.  I'm going to stop feeding their normal brand of kibble to see if that's the culprit.   They have been eating CA Natural since 2009 and never had any problems with it. They have been eating their regular mix of mostly Wellness and some Fancy Feast cans the past week.  Maybe there's a bad batch of canned food?  Who knows.  The other thing I can think of is the dishwasher.  It had been out of use for a couple of months and was fixed last week.  Exactly the time diarrhea started for both cats.  Well, I used the dishwasher without cleaning it first--figuring the wash and heat would kill anything in it.  That's a long shot though.  After a couple of uses, I ran it empty with a bit of bleach to sanitize it 100%.  So it shouldn't be causing a problem now.  

The vet said he would squeeze me in if there's a downturn but since the cats are otherwise okay, I should just monitor.  They do have their annual visit scheduled for next Saturday.  

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
I know nothing...apparently.  I did talk to the vet and his advice was to feed kibble for a couple of days to see if that would help Josie firm up her poo.  The problem is she vomited undigested kibble within minutes of feeding.  Which once again brings up whether it's a hairball.

But get this...this morning Dory pooped and it was just a tiny liquid clump.  Darn.  I thought she only had the issue over the weekend.  I really need to narrow down the issue.  I'm going to stop feeding their normal brand of kibble to see if that's the culprit.   They have been eating CA Natural since 2009 and never had any problems with it. They have been eating their regular mix of mostly Wellness and some Fancy Feast cans the past week.  Maybe there's a bad batch of canned food?  Who knows.  The other thing I can think of is the dishwasher.  It had been out of use for a couple of months and was fixed last week.  Exactly the time diarrhea started for both cats.  Well, I used the dishwasher without cleaning it first--figuring the wash and heat would kill anything in it.  That's a long shot though.  After a couple of uses, I ran it empty with a bit of bleach to sanitize it 100%.  So it shouldn't be causing a problem now.  

The vet said he would squeeze me in if there's a downturn but since the cats are otherwise okay, I should just monitor.  They do have their annual visit scheduled for next Saturday.  

I think that is wise to stop the kibble for a few days, and just feed things that you know are being tolerated well at this time. Given that both kitties are experiencing either vomiting and/or diarrhea, makes me think that this might be a bug, or recent events. Just keep things really quiet and consistent. Lots of water to keep them hydrated. I would suggest to continue the SEB powder as this will help to address both the diarrhea and any nausea, but discontinue the Vet's Best, as this contains digestive enzymes which some cats can have problems with. Also, do you have a rectal thermometer, and would it be possible to check their temperature? This would give you an idea as to whether there might be something else going on, like a bacterial or viral infection?

Hope things can improve in the next day or so .. Continued vibes for the girls

 

[tdonline]

One, I don't have a thermometer but have been touching head and ears and nary any sign of fever.  Generally aside from the hairballs and soft poop, they look to be fine.  If they were  pooing 5-8 times a day, I would be taking them to the vet, but they're not.  They go once a day or once every other day.  The only change is that the poop is very soft.  Josie had a BM this morning that included one soft but formed log.  So hopefully, the trend will continue towards firm and formed.  Now I gotta see about Dory.

I've stopped all supplements period.  I am adding pumpkin to help firm up the poo.  I'm also brushing more and giving them lots of petroleum jelly.  The latter isn't ideal (why I have Lecithin and Vet's Best), but if there are large immovable hairballs...they need to move along.

 

[tdonline]

Whew.  Josie had a normal BM on Saturday and Dory had one this morning.  Crossing fingers that the drama was just some food that had gone off or hairballs that eventually moved along.  Their normal BMs were actually quite dry (and I could feel hair mass) so I'll slowly re-introduce a bit of generic Miralax into their food.