BoneLESS Frankerprey - Anyone does this?

[mschauer]

Not that one but I've made plenty of mistakes! I considered using a spreadsheet but they are just too hard to work with.My program is far more flexible and user friendly than a spreadsheet can ever be. Plus it has an interface to both the USDA database and a local database for storing custom ingredients (for ingredient not in the USDA database like MCHA) and recipes.

You should sell it.....

I've considered it, briefly. But I don't want to deal with users!  

If you and Laurie want to PM me your menus I will try to work an analysis of them this weekend. Just include however much you think should result in a balanced diet, one day, one week, whatever.

Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to get at least a quick and dirty hard copy output. Worst case I guess I can give you screen shots!

 

[ldg]

Aw, that's REALLY kind of you! I'll PM you. :nod:

 

[ldg]

OK, screen shots of new Ca spreadsheet, using NOW HCA. I didn't hide any of the columns even though HCA numbers repeat throughout. Just thought the correct info should be up here for anyone else considering boneless frankenprey. If it's too hard to read the numbers, I'll hide some of the columns.

For anyone that wants to use HCA to supplement calcium, don't forget to scale up the amount you're using based on the size of the meal. Again - this is calculated per ounce. Most of the meals I feed my cats are 1.5 ounces.

 

[ldg]

Oh cool, you can see them larger by clicking on them.

 

[mschauer]

Excellent! 

Now if you want to know exactly how much MCHA you need per oz of meat you can take the P mg/oz and C mg/oz and do this:

(P mg/oz - C mg/oz)/125 = # of caps of MCHA for ratio of 1:1 .

So for chicken thigh: (53 -3)/125 = 0.4 caps (400 mg) of MCHA 

 

[carolina]

Now really...... instead of doing this..... do you want to do the same thing for eggshells? :spit:

 

[mschauer]

And converting capsules to teaspoons:

1 cap (1000mg) = 1/3 tsp

3/4 cap (750 mg) = 1/4 tsp

1/2 cap (500 mg) = 1/6 tsp

1/4 cap (250 mg) = 1/12 tsp

That's enough fun with math for one day!

 

[ldg]

I did, it was really easy to convert. I did make the assumption that the amount of phosphorus in eggshells was trace amounts.

What I'm wondering, after doing this, is why is 1,000mg of calcium recommended per pound of meat? Because it is definitely not balanced on a Ca basis. :dk:

Let me go take the screen shot so I can post it.

 

[mschauer]

Now really...... instead of doing this..... do you want to do the same thing for eggshells?

Well, as I said in the other thread you need about 1/3 as much eggshell as you need of MCHA.

 

[carolina]

I did, it was really easy to convert. I did make the assumption that the amount of phosphorus in eggshells was trace amounts.
What I'm wondering, after doing this, is why is 1,000mg of calcium recommended per pound of meat? Because it is definitely not balanced on a Ca basis. :dk:
Let me go take the screen shot so I can post it.

Gee..... Good thing you put it in the spreadsheet - ok, I wait for your post.....

 

[ldg]

Need to do a little work on how much eggshell to use on organs... or just add a little more.

 

[ldg]

I must have done something wrong.

 

[ldg]

Oh :doh3: I used full teaspoon to adjust per ounce. But only HALF teaspoon is needed to balance per POUND. Fixed and edited. Pictures in post 111 are corrected.

 

[carolina]

I might be wrong... but I think your Ca levels on 1/32 TSP are wrong.... should be 60.9375..... not 121.88...... It will take double that to balance..... I had calculated before, and It was going to take roughly around 1/16th tsp per 1.6oz for Lucky's and Hopes food.... a bit more for Bugsy's but just a trace....

 

[carolina]

Oh :doh3: I used full teaspoon to adjust per ounce. But only HALF teaspoon is needed to balance per POUND. The amounts listed are double. :anon:
I'm going to edit the above post to post the right numbers. Give me a minute to fix.

Opsy, we posted at the same time - yep, I caught that..... :nod:

 

[mschauer]

Do cats have a minimum calcium dietary requirement? Or.... ???? Because this much eggshell is not required to balance the phosphorous for the meat.

Either that, or I've done something quite wrong in the figuring here....


[

The AAFCO calls for a minimum of 0.6 % of the total food weight (DMB) to be calcium. Another source, not the AAFCO calls for a max of 3%.

 

[mschauer]

I did, it was really easy to convert. I did make the assumption that the amount of phosphorus in eggshells was trace amounts.

What I'm wondering, after doing this, is why is 1,000mg of calcium recommended per pound of meat? Because it is definitely not balanced on a Ca basis.

Let me go take the screen shot so I can post it.

In case you aren't sure, eggshells do indeed have only trace amounts of phosphorus.

 

[ldg]

In case you aren't sure, eggshells do indeed have only trace amounts of phosphorus.

At 95% calcium carbonate, I assumed it was a safe assumption. :nod: But thanks!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

So, Carolina, does this mean that you are going to do eggshells for the entire gang, even though the holistic doc recommended the MCHA?  ( I realized Lucky cannot have MCHA, but that doesn't mean Bugsy and Hope can't, does it?)

I must say, this thread has my head reeling...I'm so confused by it, and maybe that's because I'm not to the Frankenprey stage yet.  I mean, I realize that if you feed boneless Frankenprey, you need to supplement with some sort of calcium but, jeez, this sounds awfully confusing. I was hoping I could just put a certain size spoonful of the eqqshell powder on the meat chunks and call it a day

.  If that's not the case, I may be in deep doo-doo. 

 

[carolina]

So, Carolina, does this mean that you are going to do eggshells for the entire gang, even though the holistic doc recommended the MCHA?  ( I realized Lucky cannot have MCHA, but that doesn't mean Bugsy and Hope can't, does it?)

I must say, this thread has my head reeling...I'm so confused by it, and maybe that's because I'm not to the Frankenprey stage yet.  I mean, I realize that if you feed boneless Frankenprey, you need to supplement with some sort of calcium but, jeez, this sounds awfully confusing. I was hoping I could just put a certain size spoonful of the eqqshell powder on the meat chunks and call it a day :happy3: .  If that's not the case, I may be in deep doo-doo. 

All the vet said, was that due to MCH having a closer profile to bones, he agrees to be a better option. However, he also said that the other calcium, such eggshells, and the calcium I am currently feeding are completely fine as well....
Problem is, MCH capsules are huge - 1/2 capsule is a lot of powder.... not if you put on ground meat, but yes when you are talking about frankerprey.... Then I also have to consider that this is not the only thing that is going to go in the food - there is a capsule of proviable-DC in the morning, Bugsy's stomatitis drops.... Forget it if I want to add taurine (he said not necessary, but I bought it, and would like to use it :lol3 It is just too much.....
It all boils down to this: It might be the best option, but it is no good when the cats will not eat it.... And the second best is eggshells, which the kitties eat just fine.
By the way, that 1/2 capsule is per ounce.....
So... yes.... When it comes to stuff like this, there is no choice really.... it has to be: Does it work? Will the cats eat and do well on it? Perfect. Case settled. :nod: