Young kitten on raw?

[ashleyb92]

I got a kitten on Monday, and am really hoping to feed her raw, frankenprey if she'll accept it. But I weighed her yesterday and she's only 1.32lbs, which means I'm thinking she's only around 4 weeks old. I'm worried she's too young? And if she's not too young, how do I start. I've figured out she would need about 7.11 oz. of muscle meat, 0.12oz bone (which I'm worried she's to little to eat yet) 0.06oz liver and 0.06 organs a week to have the 80/10/5/5 ratio. Also just curious I don't like the idea of getting her vaccinated, but my dad tells me it's the law to get at least rabies, so I'm wondering if anyone knows if that's true? She's my first kitten, so I wasn't sure she was so young, we got her from a family down in town that was giving her away, she was in a barn, so I'm assuming she's seen her mom eat  mice. Right now she's eating rachel rays nutrish, which I wasn't happy about getting but my boyfriend insisted she get kibbles at least for now, and two differnt kinds  of canned food newmans organic and purina  beyond. I also blended up a mixture of beef liver, egg  yolks with shells, cooked eggwhites in tallow,  gelatin,  coconut  oil, water kefir, and one smelt without a head. This morning I heated that up with some canned food and she seems to just like the liquid mostly. She seems to have only pooped 3 times since  we  got her so like once a day is that enough? I made the mixture because I was worried she might still need her moms milk, since  I think she's only around a month old.I couldn't get into town to buy that replacement kitty milk, and also because I'm not sure whats even in there. Anyways I'm just wondering what I should do for now, especially if she is so young.

 

[maureen brad]

I got my Ziggy( RIP) when he was 6 weeks old and he weighed only 1 1/2 lbs. If your cat is eating kibble she certainly can eat a  raw diet. My cats eat a ground raw with chunks diet so I am not an expert on frankenprey but many here at TCS can give  you guidance on a frankenprey diet. You can even do a search on that.

If I were raising a kitten, given what I know now I would never begin feeding kibble.

Please keep in mind that kibble is never good for your cat and she needs really good nutrition while growing. I am sorry I can't give advice on frankenprey but, I can say without a doubt that raw is the way to go.

 

[ashleyb92]

 
I got my Ziggy( RIP) when he was 6 weeks old and he weighed only 1 1/2 lbs. If your cat is eating kibble she certainly can eat a  raw diet. My cats eat a ground raw with chunks diet so I am not an expert on frankenprey but many here at TCS can give  you guidance on a frankenprey diet. You can even do a search on that.

If I were raising a kitten, given what I know now I would never begin feeding kibble.

Please keep in mind that kibble is never good for your cat and she needs really good nutrition while growing. I am sorry I can't give advice on frankenprey but, I can say without a doubt that raw is the way to go.

Yeah I know kibble is bad but I had to compromise with my boyfriend when I went to the store to get food (i have been researching loads on raw the past 2 days but When I went to get food i didn't know as much) I wanted to get only wet food. She doesn't really eat the kibble though as I try and distract her with the canned/mixture i made.

I have some  kidneys and liver already from my meat CSA that I get and I also had some chicken so I cut it all up real small to see if shed eat it. She acted like it smelled like poo or something she pawed the ground next to the dish like she wanted to bury it lol. So I added some of the mixture I made to see if she would eat it then and she did but only a few bites and then walked away. That was a few hours ago and I just tried again, she did the same thing, ate a few bites ad walked away. I think she actually ate less this time but I put it into the fridge and will try one more time before bed (11:30pm/12am). Also I've been warming it on the stove for just a few seconds until it feel warm on my knuckle. I also had another question, can cats eat chicken feet?

 

[raina21]

ashleyb92


Why are you so hesitant to get her vaccinated? And yes, the Rabies vaccine is required. But the distemper Combination vaccine is a MUST for kittens.

Also, many kennels will not allow cats that have not been vaccinated to be boarded. And if you were to ever move far away and you had to take your cat on a plane with you, you would not be able to do so without proof of the cat being up to date on all vaccinations.

Are you planning to keep her indoors only? If so, get the distemper combination vaccine and a rabies shot. The distemper vaccine should not have to be repeated if she is kept indoors. HOWEVER if you plan to let her outside when she is older, I would insist you get her both the rabies and the feline leukemia shot each year as needed. Feline leukemia is VERY contagious and spreads easily though any sort of bodily fluid from an infected cat, so if your kitty were to get in a fight, she would run the risk of contracting feline leukemia.

More info on feline leukemia:

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/Health_Information/brochure_felv.cfm

 

[talkingpeanut]

If she is only 4 weeks old and mostly interested in liquids, it's because she's not totally weaned.  She's way too young to be away from her mom and litter.  Is there any way to give her back for a few weeks?  She's got a lot of learning left to do.

If not, strongly recommend you pick up some kmr (we recommend powdered by PetAg).  She will need to drink that either out of a bottle or out of a dish for the next few weeks until she is willing to eat.  She doesn't sound ready for solids yet.

And agreed on the vaccinations.  You can make decisions later about whether to continue to vaccinate her once she's an adult if she's indoor only and has no contact with other cats, but the kitten series is essential.  Do not skip these.

 

[ashleyb92]

I'm hesitant on the vaccines because from what I've  learned they can potentially cause more harm than good and if she's eating raw (properly) her body will be able to  defend most  things that vaccines are supposed to prevent. I've also learned vaccines don't necessarily prevent diseases, and they also have the ability to weaken her natural immune system. And we are planning to keep her indoors. I'm a believer that vaccines are pushed mainly for profit not necessarily the well being of my pet, of me for that matter. But she's still young so I have more research to do.

She does eat solid foods, she just seems to prefer the liquid when it there but she eats both. So far she has eaten a small amount of the kibble, some wet food,the liquid mixture, and also some of the small cut up meats I added in.

Also I'm not sure her going back for a few weeks is an option to be honest.

 

[talkingpeanut]

I'm hesitant on the vaccines because from what I've  learned they can potentially cause more harm than good and if she's eating raw (properly) her body will be able to  defend most  things that vaccines are supposed to prevent. I've also learned vaccines don't necessarily prevent diseases, and they also have the ability to weaken her natural immune system. And we are planning to keep her indoors. I'm a believer that vaccines are pushed mainly for profit not necessarily the well being of my pet, of me for that matter. But she's still young so I have more research to do.

She does eat solid foods, she just seems to prefer the liquid when it there but she eats both. So far she has eaten a small amount of the kibble, some wet food,the liquid mixture, and also some of the small cut up meats I added in.

Also I'm not sure her going back for a few weeks is an option to be honest.

Vaccinating is really important. Supporting her with holistic methods and raw food is great and important later in life, but won't do anything if she comes into contact with a highly contagious disease. This can happen whether you keep her inside or not. You can bring diseases inside your house on your shoes, etc. Not continuing with the rabies vaccine is fine after she's had the first few, but you are truly risking her life if you don't vaccinate for distemper. There are not long term risks and you can decide about boosters later.

It's all part of building a foundation for the rest of her life.

 

[raina21]

Yes, as talkingpeanut said, vaccines really are needed for kittens. Especially distemper you are risking her life by not vaccinating her. Also, you will not be able to get her spayed without vaccinating her first, as the majority of vets require cats to be up to date on their vaccinations before being boarded/held to be spayed.


When they are adult, indoor only cats, vaccines are not as important because adult cats have stronger immune systems and can fight off diseases that will kill a kitten. Distemper often does not kill adult cats, but it is fatal to kittens 99% of the time. and by the time they show symptoms of having distemper, it is usually too late to save them.

Also, I don't know if you have any Tractor Supply stores around you, but every other saturday they have $15 vaccination days where you can bring your cat into the store and they have a vet vaccinate the cat for you for $15.

 

[lisahe]

Yes, as talkingpeanut said, vaccines really are needed for kittens. Especially distemper you are risking her life by not vaccinating her. Also, you will not be able to get her spayed without vaccinating her first, as the majority of vets require cats to be up to date on their vaccinations before being boarded/held to be spayed.


When they are adult, indoor only cats, vaccines are not as important because adult cats have stronger immune systems and can fight off diseases that will kill a kitten. Distemper often does not kill adult cats, but it is fatal to kittens 99% of the time. and by the time they show symptoms of having distemper, it is usually too late to save them.

Also, I don't know if you have any Tractor Supply stores around you, but every other saturday they have $15 vaccination days where you can bring your cat into the store and they have a vet vaccinate the cat for you for $15.

These are all very good points! I'll just add a few things:

-Beyond the fact that rabies vaccinations are the law in many/most states, it's very important to get them for a cat because you never know when a bat might fly into your house and spend a minute or two alone in a room with your cat. This happened in my house last summer; everything was fine (the bat didn't have rabies and the cats were up-to-date) but I remember at least one other site member mentioning an acquaintance needing to quarantine a cat after a bat encounter because the cat hadn't been vaccinated. It can be expensive!

-Distemper killed a kitten we had when I was little: she was still very small and my parents didn't get her vaccinated in time.

-Animal shelters are another place to look for low-cost vaccinations and microchipping: the shelter where we adopted our cats seems to hold them two or three times a year.

Back to the original points that you raised about feeding, @AshleyB92, I'm wondering about the homemade food you're feeding, since it doesn't sound like a balanced recipe. Have you looked at the resources links on the home page of the raw/homecooked food part of the forum? (It's here: http://www.thecatsite.com/f/65/raw-home-cooked-cat-food) You might find something there that's helpful: kittens need lots of calories and nutrients for healthy growth so it's really important to make sure the food they eat is balanced. The usual guideline is that it's okay to feed unbalanced food for only 10% of a cat's diet.

 

[ashleyb92]

feline panleukopenia vaccines has killed kittens before

Back to the original points that you raised about feeding, @AshleyB92, I'm wondering about the homemade food you're feeding, since it doesn't sound like a balanced recipe. Have you looked at the resources links on the home page of the raw/homecooked food part of the forum? (It's here: http://www.thecatsite.com/f/65/raw-home-cooked-cat-food) You might find something there that's helpful: kittens need lots of calories and nutrients for healthy growth so it's really important to make sure the food they eat is balanced. The usual guideline is that it's okay to feed unbalanced food for only 10% of a cat's diet.

I wasn't feeding her just that mixture I was putting it over her wet food like a gravy, and I also made it just because I didn't know what else to feed and I was nervous she wasn't getting enough just from wet food,as she's so little. Also I ordered some powdered Kitten formula that should be arriving tomorrow. So I will add that to her food instead.

I went shopping yesterday and picked up some meats to see what/if she would eat. I just spent an hour cutting up (not grinding) and portioning out enough for a week of 4 meals a day. When I finished I offered her some chicken hearts and pork, she sniffed it and walked away, so I added some sardine liquid and also some sardine smushed into it and she ate all of it ... When the formula gets here I'll add that over the meat, just so she gets everything she needs. I'm so excited she's willing to eat the meat even if I have to add something for now.

She's very playful lately, but she does still sleep a lot too.

I know why people are saying the vaccines are needed, but part of me questions whether or not that stuff is in fact true. Especially since I've been reading about people who only got the rabies vaccine (because it was the law) but nothing else and those cats are the healthiest cats they've ever had (out of many they've owned). I just don't want to potentially damage her immune system, unless it is absolutely essential. I'm planning on contacting a holistic vet in the next few months to ask questions etc.. The reason I'm hesitant isn't because vaccines cost a lot of money, it's mainly her health. I'm not the kind of person to just take what I hear as truth even if it is coming from a vet, (who I believe have financial gains with every vaccine they administer, also I'm not sure all the science is true, for all I know it's funded by the companies making the vaccines. Similar to vets learning about pet nutrition from the pet food industry). My issue is that I need to figure everything out soon. How late is too late for a cat to get her vaccines? I know most people get them when their cats get fixed at a few months old but I'm planning to wait until she is at least a year so her body can fully grow the way it's meant to. So is a year to late for vaccine? I still have around 11 months until then but, I'm totally overwhelming myself with information the past few days.

 

[ashleyb92]

 also took a small video of her eating the meat, I will upload it and share the link if anyone is interested. Just to see she can eat solid foods. Maybe she isn't as young as I was thinking?

 

[catwoman707]

A few comments here.

First is, she is about 6 weeks old. I say this with confidence because at 6 weeks should weigh close to 1 1/2 lbs, but born outside means will weigh a bit less, it's just the way it is for now until she grows up.

Next is, there is a lot to be said for a raw diet, I fully agree.

However, making it yourself means not necessarily balanced, and she is growing at an astounding rate and can easily become nutritionally depleted of one or more very essential nutrients, this is the big plus for store bought, whether raw or canned.

Please give this some serious consideration, it's about her health and future being the best possible.

Vaccines-first let me say that I am against over-vaccinating. I would never give an felv vaccine unless I also owned an felv positive cat, putting her at a very high risk of getting. I do not vaccinate my cats yearly or even every 3 years, once my cats have their core vaccines, and at 1 year, they might get another one at age 6 or more, and that's it, and only at 6 again because my having a rescue and also constant exposure to cats coming in o the humane society I am on the board for and their cat advocate, so they have a better chance of being exposed.

-kitten vaccines are called core, by giving a MLV (modified live vaccine) means a modified small dose of the actual virus, this triggers her system to build an immune response, and once there, it's there when those little sneaky viruses that are literally everywhere to be useless to her. 

They do NOT kill kittens. They protect them.

She is too young to vaccinate now, but her maternal antibodies will very soon be fading and gone, then she will be wide open and vulnerable to everything there is around her.

Sure, some cats won't get sick and live fine, but many, many do not. Trust me on that, I see far too much......

Why take the gamble I ask? 

Yes, waiting a year to vaccinate is pointless, she needs her CORE vaccines, starting when the maternals are wearing off, if she will be going outside, her first should be prior to this, a good week.

Minimum is 2 core vaccines, 3-4 weeks apart. Recommended is 3, but if given 2 consecutively is plenty, my personal belief and what is taught at UC Davis Medical.

Waiting a year to spay her means she WILL get prego, so I strongly advise against waiting.

The recent idea that spay/neuters at a young age stunts growth or causes issues later is not in cats at all.

Spaying should be done at 4 months, and no later than 5 at the very latest.

Also, the powdered formula will be very good for her.

 

[ashleyb92]

I will continue to give her both the canned I have, and the raw I guess, also the formula once it arrives.

Also my video finished uploading, the fan is on in the background so it's kind of annoying sounding