What is the quickest and most convenient way to feed raw?

[jclark]

I think your dad will like the Natures Variety. It's very easy to handle and not too expensive for one cat. 1/4 patty 2x/day. A bag should last almost a month.

An added benefit to raw is the significantly smaller and low odor stools. I have 3 cats who receive NV raw & canned, and the smaller stools is a godsend.

Wish you the best of luck!

 

[ldg]

I hear what you and LDG are saying about giving bone in animals as a snack and not needing to worry about balancing the nutrients. And, I know for something like rabbit we would have to order it from one of the aforementioned specialty places. But, is it okay to feed cornish game hens and chicken wings bought at the grocery store? Or, do these need to be specially ordered too? One of the articles I was reading said to never use ground meat from the store as the risks of bacteria is just too high. Is the same true of the bone-in meats? I'm assuming there is also a difference between a traditional grocery store and something like Whole Foods. Would ones purchased from there be acceptable if a standard grocery isn't? 

Rabbit can also be purchased from ethnic markets, if there are any accessible to you.

The meat I feed I buy primarily from the supermarket, the same food we eat. They just don't sell rabbit.

When feeding chicken wings, buy the whole wings, not the "party" wings. What's best for kitties is the two smaller parts, not the large third part (though Livvy sounds like she's experienced enough). Dad can keep the third part for his own use. Just chop them off and freeze them until he wants to use them.

The issue with supermarket GROUND meats is

1) Loss of nutrients due to exponentially larger surface space: light, oxygen, etc. degrades some nutrients;

2) Increased potential for unhealthy bacteria. Salmonella, etc. is sometimes present commercial meats in the U.S. in small amounts. Our cats do fine with normal amounts, small exposure here and there - many cats are already exposed to it. It is located on the surface of meat (if present) due to meat processing practices. But the grinding, which is done usually at the supermarket, creates an environment where the bacteria can increase to amounts people and cats can't handle raw with the large batch processing and not necessarily using the best, most thorough cleaning methods, etc. Further, it mixes it INTO the meat, so if someone wants to sear the surface, that doesn't work as a method for infection prevention. Ground supermarket meats can be used for homemade cooked, though due to the nutrient issue, it's still better to grind it yourself at home (or use a food processor).

The main difference between regular supermarket and Whole Foods is the quality of the meat. Whole foods rates their meats on the basis of humane treatment; better treatment often (not always) means better feed ingredients. Supermarket meat is typically from large "cost management" factory farms. I would feed locally raised, grass-fed meats if I could, but I can't afford it.

Of course... what goes into cat food is the garbage from the process of providing supermarket meats to us.

 

[peaches08]

To add to what LDG said, since I buy meat for the cats at the grocery store too, it might be a good idea to go with your father first and look at the labels. Sometimes meat is enhanced with sodium to increase water content and cats don't need that much sodium.

 

[ldg]

Oh good point. :nod: The nutrient analysis in meats are based on 4oz portions. Anything over 100mg of sodium per serving is enhanced, and should not be fed.

 

[tammyp]

Many thanks for your kind words and encouragement EB24!  I will be sure to update.  Not thinking about it too much seems easiest until there is something to actually think about, but that doesn't sometimes stop the 'what ifs' that happen in the quiet times.  I'll let you know - but I won't hijack your thread any further.  Sounds like you are well on the path to sorting out some food for Livvy 

 

[eb24]

I think your dad will like the Natures Variety. It's very easy to handle and not too expensive for one cat. 1/4 patty 2x/day. A bag should last almost a month.

An added benefit to raw is the significantly smaller and low odor stools. I have 3 cats who receive NV raw & canned, and the smaller stools is a godsend.

Wish you the best of luck!

I agree and I think this is what we are going to start with, especially since he already has it on hand. While lowering the frequency of the UTI's is our primary goal, believe me when I say that less stinky stools would be a MAJOR benefit!!! Between fostering and the shelter I have been around a lot of cats and cleaned a lot of boxes and I have honestly never smelled anything as rancid as what comes out of this girl. Seriously, there were times that I had her as a foster that I would literally have to leave the apartment to keep myself from throwing up. My Dad's house is big enough that she thankfully doesn't clear rooms anymore but still- it's brutal! 

Rabbit can also be purchased from ethnic markets, if there are any accessible to you.

The meat I feed I buy primarily from the supermarket, the same food we eat. They just don't sell rabbit.

When feeding chicken wings, buy the whole wings, not the "party" wings. What's best for kitties is the two smaller parts, not the large third part (though Livvy sounds like she's experienced enough). Dad can keep the third part for his own use. Just chop them off and freeze them until he wants to use them. 

The issue with supermarket GROUND meats is

1) Loss of nutrients due to exponentially  larger surface space: light, oxygen, etc. degrades some nutrients;

2) Increased potential for unhealthy bacteria. Salmonella, etc. is sometimes present commercial meats in the U.S. in small amounts. Our cats do fine with normal amounts, small exposure here and there - many cats are already exposed to it. It is located on the surface of meat (if present) due to meat processing practices. But the grinding, which is done usually at the supermarket, creates an environment where the bacteria can increase to amounts people and cats can't handle raw with the large batch processing and not necessarily using the best, most thorough cleaning methods, etc. Further, it mixes it INTO the meat, so if someone wants to sear the surface, that doesn't work as a method for infection prevention. Ground supermarket meats can be used for homemade cooked, though due to the nutrient issue, it's still better to grind it yourself at home (or use a food processor).

The main difference between regular supermarket and Whole Foods is the quality of the meat. Whole foods rates their meats on the basis of humane treatment; better treatment often (not always) means better feed ingredients. Supermarket meat is typically from large "cost management" factory farms. I would feed locally raised, grass-fed meats if I could, but I can't afford it.

Of course... what goes into cat food is the garbage from the process of providing supermarket meats to us. 

To add to what LDG said, since I buy meat for the cats at the grocery store too, it might be a good idea to go with your father first and look at the labels. Sometimes meat is enhanced with sodium to increase water content and cats don't need that much sodium.

Thank you both for explaining this in further detail. Since I haven't ever cooked meat in my life it's all very foreign to me! I have made a word document analyzing all the brands we have discussed and that I have researched independently, and have added a section on how to feed raw meat bought from the store properly as a snack so that he doesn't just throw down some raw hamburger and call it a day. A lot of what I put in the document is verbatim from this thread so thank you all for your fantastic explanations! I think it's laid out well enough that he will be able to follow without being too overwhelmed. 

We have a meeting planned for tomorrow afternoon to go over all of this and hopefully that is when we will start transitioning her diet. My fingers are crossed that she takes to it and that it starts to help her! 

 
Many thanks for your kind words and encouragement EB24!  I will be sure to update.  Not thinking about it too much seems easiest until there is something to actually think about, but that doesn't sometimes stop the 'what ifs' that happen in the quiet times.  I'll let you know - but I won't hijack your thread any further.  Sounds like you are well on the path to sorting out some food for Livvy 

You feel free to hijack my thread as much as you want/need to! I agree it's best to try not to worry until you have something to worry about but that's always easier said than done. I know those times when we were waiting for scan results were some of the most stressful and difficult for me. I felt like I could deal with what I knew- it was the not knowing and letting my mind run wild that would get to me! 

I do think we are well on the path to starting the transition tomorrow (or whenever my Dad decides he is ready). I couldn't have gotten here without your advice and the amazing advice from everyone else! I love being a part of TCS for many reasons but when something like Livvy's situation comes up and it all feels overwhelming and hopeless I am reminded of exactly why this is such a great community. Everyone broke it down and explained what to do in a way that seems so simple and manageable. I know there will be bumps in the road but those don't seem nearly as scary knowing I have somewhere to turn! 

 

Thank you all again and I will keep you posted!!!! 

 

[eb24]

So just wanted to briefly update that the meeting with my Dad went really, really well. He was very open to all the information (with the exception of Stella and Chewy's which he automatically vetoed. He said it's less gross to go pure meat and add supplemental powder than to mix water to dried food. I thought that was a little wacky but whatever floats his boat). 

So, the plan as of now is to start offering her the patties next to her wet food and see if she takes to it. We decided to start with the rabbit formula and see if that helps the transition. In the interim, he LIKED the idea of giving her whole meat snacks between meals (again, I think he's nuts but this is the man that used to boil deer heads in our garage and would take bets from the neighborhood kids on how long it would take for the eyeballs to pop out). He got all giddy at the idea of dressing and giving her the dozen pheasants he killed on his hunting trip, so I'm just gonna go with it. Who knows, he may actually end up liking the prey model raw better than the patties, but for now I think we are at a great starting point! 

 

[lilin]

 
So just wanted to briefly update that the meeting with my Dad went really, really well. He was very open to all the information (with the exception of Stella and Chewy's which he automatically vetoed. He said it's less gross to go pure meat and add supplemental powder than to mix water to dried food. I thought that was a little wacky but whatever floats his boat). 

So, the plan as of now is to start offering her the patties next to her wet food and see if she takes to it. We decided to start with the rabbit formula and see if that helps the transition. In the interim, he LIKED the idea of giving her whole meat snacks between meals (again, I think he's nuts but this is the man that used to boil deer heads in our garage and would take bets from the neighborhood kids on how long it would take for the eyeballs to pop out). He got all giddy at the idea of dressing and giving her the dozen pheasants he killed on his hunting trip, so I'm just gonna go with it. Who knows, he may actually end up liking the prey model raw better than the patties, but for now I think we are at a great starting point! 

Eccentric dads are always interesting. I have one myself. It sounds like maybe this is something they could, dare I say, bond over?

The only concern with the wild-caught animals is that I would be worried about parasites. I believe freezing kills most parasites, but definitely look into that before you do it.

 

[ldg]

Wild caught game (other than bear and boar) is FINE for cats. Just make sure anything hunted is frozen for three weeks prior to feeding. :nod: And make sure no bones too big are offered. Small bones - the two smaller wingbones and ribs from birds - should be fine. And pheasant is great if she likes it!

 

[lilin]

Wild caught game (other than bear and boar) is FINE for cats. Just make sure anything hunted is frozen for three weeks prior to feeding.

And make sure no bones too big are offered. Small bones - the two smaller wingbones and ribs from birds - should be fine. And pheasant is great if she likes it!

Thanks. I was pretty sure freezing kills 'em, but it's good to check.

 

[eb24]

 
Eccentric dads are always interesting. I have one myself. It sounds like maybe this is something they could, dare I say, bond over?

The only concern with the wild-caught animals is that I would be worried about parasites. I believe freezing kills most parasites, but definitely look into that before you do it.

Haha glad I'm not the only one with a total oddball of a Father! 

 And, I totally agree with you that this may be something they bond even further over. I just couldn't get over how excited he was at the idea of giving her whole prey- I thought he would say it was out of the question!

The big thing I did try to enforce was that just giving her the types of raw meat that we talked about doesn't meet her nutritional needs without more careful tracking of what she's getting, and if he decides he only wants to do the prey model then there is more research that we need to do.  He seemed to understand that, and wanted to try giving her patties 2x a day with a whole prey snack in the afternoon to supplement what used to be a feeding. For such a tiny girl Livvy has a ferocious appetite and always seems to be hungry so I don't worry about her getting too full from it. Though, it would be nice if switching to this diet does finally satiate her! 

And, thank you for bringing up the point about potential parasites. I raised that concern with him too but he was pretty adamant that the risk was no higher than her killing and eating rabbits and birds in the backyard. I know the birds are already in the freezer but I will make it a point to remind him that they need to be for 3 weeks as LDG recommends just to be sure any possible parasites are killed off. I will also remind him about the bones- thank you LDG for the heads up! I could so see him trying to give her a bone that's as big as she is! 

 I suppose the nice thing about having the cat and the dog is that the Mac-a-doodle will happily scarf down whatever is too big for her to consume- what a team they make! 

 

I haven't heard from him today but I'm dying to know how the first day went. I suppose no news is good news, right? Hopefully he will let me know later! 

 

[vball91]

I am dying to hear how it went too!

 

[ldg]

Can't wait to hear!

 

[eb24]

Sadly I have no updates as of yet. 

 My Dad and I had a little, er, disagreement about the involvement of his girlfriend of 4 months involvement in the holidays (my Mom has only been gone for 5 months. And no, you didn't read that wrong

). We finally had dinner tonight and turns out, he hasn't switched her yet! 

 All this work and sound advice and he hasn't even started! Of course her UTI has cleared up and she's all "back to normal." So, to him, out of sight out of mind. Until it happens again.....

I'm going on the record and saying if she pees on his bed again and he even THINKS of giving her up I'm going to chain her to his leg and swallow the key. You don't get to complain if you aren't willing to try and fix it! 

He has promised he will so I will update again then. I'm so tempted to go each day and feed her myself but it's the whole "give a man a fish versus teaching a man to fish" debacle. If I start doing it and can't one day it will just go back to how it was and that doesn't solve the problem. He has to get there on his own and be committed to changing her diet to hopefully improve her health and, by extension, her behavior. If he wants to learn it the hard way so be it! 

Men. 

 

[tammyp]

Oh yep, that be Men!  Can't be told, gotta work it out for themselves.  You are wise!

 

[eb24]

 
Oh yep, that be Men!  Can't be told, gotta work it out for themselves.  You are wise!

 

[fhicat]

Men. 

Heyy!