Turkish van / angora mix ?

[carl05]

This kitten's recently been introduced to a new home, ours. Was advertised as a Turkish van, and it has many van-like characteristics and the coat to boot, but only faint marks on the head and no tail colourings (and it's not the odd-eye variety either). So it's not an official Turkish Van, it has no pedigree books and certainly wasn't bought from a pedigree breeder... yet I wonder if there isn't confusion here with Angora, or this isn't actually an Angora + something else... ie a 'simulation' of a Van ! Wonder what people think. Great cat anyways.

 

[StefanZ]

Yes, I think too it is sooner a Turkish Angora wannabe than a Turkish Van wannabe.   :-)

They are of the same group, in Sweden for example they are in the same association called "Vangora".  So a mix up of names is not that peculiar.

I myself prefer to use the expression "of the type" or "lookalike" or joking "wannabe"  then mix.

You are almost sure she isnt no purebred. There is no guarantee either she is a mix, by the same reasons.  Besides, cat mixes do often looks different, it is not at all sure they looks almost like mom or dad.

Very nice looks!  Congrats!

Good luck!

Ps.  Welcome to our Forums!

 

[carl05]

Thanks! Vangora wannabe is a great description I reckon. The distinction between Van and Angora can be overstated, in fact I read quite a convincing article, arguing that originally Van and Angora were the same cat, before breed specifications were established.. here http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/were-the-turkish-angora-and-turkish-van-the-same-cat.html

In this case any confusion on the part of the seller might be quite innocent, as for most people there isn't a great awareness of either cat, and therefore one is barely more well-known, or valuable, than the other. It's funny reading the characteristics for both breeds, as this cat seems to meet both sets of the characteristics. Dog-like? Check. Playful? Yes. Head-butting? Absolutely. So I'm not sure that the distinction is always useful.

In relation to being 'pure' - there's no obvious outside influence... but I guess that's how it works with dominant vs recessive genes and a litter of kittens. The ears are not quite as tall as some pictures of Angoras, and the jaw seems a bit flatter. Maybe in a year or two we'll see how big it gets, and then could say with more certainty what might have happened!

 

[missymotus]

In this case any confusion on the part of the seller might be quite innocent,

Perhaps, but still not right. If someone is advertising a cat of a certain breed, then that's what it should be.

Hard to tell from the photos but she doesn't look like either breed to me.

 

[carl05]

Agreed - I think it's probably unethical, but the cat's great, so it does compensate. The character is quite different to what I've experienced before with animals. We did have a cat in the past which may have had a bit of Van, and that was great despite some flashes of aggression, but this is a real 'follower', the type of cat which clings to your shoulder.

A couple more pictures if I can indulge... if I were to gamble I'd suggest 75% angora and... maybe a black and white cat.

 

[StefanZ]

to avoid misunderstandings about the swedish cat club  Vangora.  They themselves knows perfectly well which cat is registered as Turkish Van and which is Turkish Angora.  But the breeds although NOT identical, do have a kinship, there are few individuals - so instead of two very small clubs, they do have one almost medium-sized club; The Vangora.  

 

[northernglow]

to avoid misunderstandings about the swedish cat club  Vangora.  They themselves knows perfectly well which cat is registered as Turkish Van and which is Turkish Angora.  But the breeds although NOT identical, do have a kinship, there are few individuals - so instead of two very small clubs, they do have one almost medium-sized club; The Vangora.  

There is also a Finnish TUA/TUV breed club called Vangora.

The cat in the pic seems to lack the head shape and facial features of an Angora or Turkish Van, so I don't think she's either one. I don't know how common these breeds are where the OP is located so not going to guess if she could be a mix or not.

 

[carl05]

Well, there are no real Turkish Vans here in Hungary, as far as I am aware, absolutely none. But there seem to be a small group of non-registered breeders of Angoras, judging on what I have seen regarding kitten availability, and theres some evidence of people actually bringing Angoras out of Ankara Zoo, along with the associated bureaucracy. However, there's not much of a breeding tradition here or in neighbouring countries as far as I can tell, so I imagine that unless people had somehow established a proper colony, then there'd be 1 or 2 'true' angoras with a lot of mixed offspring, as dealers looking for a fast buck struggle to establish something that looks like an Angora. I'm inclined to think that this cat is either a 1st or 2nd generation offspring of one of these imported cats. The consistency of the coat and the tail would suggest this, anyway. Also, bear in mind it's a 5-month old kitten - have to compare like for like.

 

[carl05]

Quick search for likely crosses led me here: http://www.freeads.co.uk/uk/buy__se...oss-available-for-stud/pic/2?rotate=0&count=3 .. this seems as good a theory as any!

 

[carl05]

Hi - thanks for your replies everyone. I went back to the people who sold the cat and asked them to confirm, and they were quite confident he's a Turkish Van, and to all intents and purposes, that may be good enough for me, in this case. The older he gets, we can see he's a big cat, and meets the general criteria and characteristics. So we're very happy, would be great if he had some proof, but he's a family animal, not a show cat or (now) a breeding stud.

 

[leslierad]

I know this post is pretty old,

I am looking for the same info about my cat Fluffy, and seems pretty close to yours Carl05.

My cat was advertised as a persian female in Romania, turns out hes a tom and a Turkish Van / Angora mix at least that's what I can tell so far also without papers etc and the breeder mentioned that his father was from Hungary.

Anyway hes a year old now and the pic below is a bit old but he still looks the same.

544583_10151569521563714_1747030106_n.jpg

• leslierad
• Aug 19, 2013

 

[maewkaew]

Hi!  Welcome to TCS!  

He sure is a very handsome cat!    And he is so stylish and cute in his bow tie!  

I'm afraid I don't think there is any way we can really tell his ancestry,  especially from just one photo   and I think a really good answer would require more  knowledge of the native cats of both Turkey and southeastern Europe.    

   I think he really may be part Persian.  Obviously  he is not a Persian of the extreme type with the flat face / very short nose with deep nose break ( crease in the nose) .    But the eyes look rounder and set more straight -set  than most of the native Anatolian  / Turkish Van  type cats.  that seem to have eyes set more at a slight slant and not as round.  

He may be something like a mix of Persian and just local  longhair cats from southeastern Europe   ( and   I'm not sure how close those are genetically and phenotypically to the cats of Anatolia.   which seem to be closer related to cats the opposite direction  like Syria, Greece, Cyprus.   but it is possible some of the cats in Romania are   similar to Turkish Van / Angora?  

  Turkish Angora and Turkish Van  started from cats that just developed on their own via random breeding.  and there are still random-bred cats like that in Turkey and nearby countries --  but more in Asia / eastern Mediterranean countries.

 You might find this article interesting.  http://www.turkishangoracat.org/arastirma.aspx

 I hope we will get to see some more pictures of your beautiful cat.  

 

[leslierad]

Hi Maewkaew,

Thanks for the welcome message and through response,

The main reason I even queried the cats origin is that my neighbour suggested he looks more like an Angoran than a Persian
I then saw the wiki page on Angoran's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Angora and saw the image  " Ankara Zoo Angora in 2012 January" http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.../220px-Turkish_Angora_in_Ankara_Zoo_(AOÇ).JPG

and thought well that looks exactly like my cat, he also is fascinated by water, not really a lap cat but loves attention, is active and likes to walk with his bushy tail upright.

Prior to that I just thought he has a Persian with far less than perfect pedigree which doesn't matter as he is a house cat now.

Here are some more pictures of a very tired Fluffy.

IMG_1778.JPG

• leslierad
• Aug 21, 2013

IMG_1103.JPG

• leslierad
• Aug 21, 2013

IMG_1783.JPG

• leslierad
• Aug 21, 2013