Too much bone???

[txcatmom]

Hi.  I'm guessing from things I've learned on this forum that my cats are getting too much bone right now.  They eat ground raw (meat with bone and organ with alnutrin added) from Hare Today....mostly chicken, rabbit and turkey. 

It makes me so nervous that they would get constipated without me knowing it.  Even though I'm home during the day, I seldom see them poop.  When I do observe it, it seems they are okay.  The poops I pull out of the litter box are usually small (ranging from really small to more medium sized) and hard.  They have usually dried up a bit (from being in the litter) and are often pretty chalky looking.  A couple of times I've noticed a little bit of red streaking on a poop.  But this was very dried up poops and I assume blood would dry to brown....not sure what the faint streaking was but it made me nervous.

Anyways, I'm not sure how to tell if a cat is constipated in a multi-cat household where I don't get to observe them pooping often.  SO, instead of waiting around for a problem, I think I'm going to buy some plain chicken to cut up and add to their ground raw. 

I've read that they can have 15% of their meat un-supplemented.  So, I'm figuring, with their small daily snack counting as one weekly meal, that they get 15 meals per week.  I figure two of those could be plain meat.  I think for now, to get them used to the chunks (which I've been wanting to do anyways) I'll make four of their chicken meals per week 50% plain meat mixed with 50% of the Hare Today. 

Does this plan sound okay?  Anyone have a better idea?  Also, any thoughts on my question about how to tell if a cat is constipated in a multi-cat household?  I assume eventually they would stop eating and start vomiting?  I'd hate for things to go that far....better to prevent it by adding some plain meat, I think. 

 

[harleydiva]

I also feed ground meat/bone/organ mixes, and have worried about the bone level.  My guys poops look just like what you are talking about, but like you, I only infrequently actually see them in the box.  There are 4 litter boxes in the house, so the chance of catching them is slim.  What I am doing, is adding 20% green tripe to most of the mixes, as well as giving them chicken hearts and gizzards as an addition to the mixes.  The beef mix I get is 50% green tripe.  I get my stuff from My Pet Carnivore, and they don't offer boneless mixes.  I have thought of ordering some boneless mixes from Hare Today, but hate to pay shipping when I get my stuff now with a monthly delivery at a site about 18 miles from me.  I'm hoping the tripe and the extras are getting the bone levels down where they need to be.  I haven't seen any indications of any of them being distressed with constipation.

The green tripe, by the way, gets them to pretty much eat anything I put in front of them.....they love the stuff.  

 

[txcatmom]

I've seen some recent threads about the tripe. I'll have to order a pound next time and see what the kitties think. I just got back from the store and picked some boneless chicken breasts on sale...no enhancers added. I packaged them in 4 oz packages so I can do three or four "thinned out" meals with less bone each week. (4 oz makes half a meal for the four kits...they eat 8 oz raw meat at each meal.) It may be a good thing for them to have the fat cut down a wee bit a few times per week too, but I'll buy thighs next time they are on sale. Also, maybe I'll order some chicken hearts or livers next time...when I cook a whole chicken I've been giving them those and they like them.

 

[ldg]

I think replacing two meals a week with raw meat/heart should be fine. How long have they been eating the HT now?

Because trust me, even in a multi-cat household you can tell when a cat is constipated. They are in and out of the box, may cry in the box, and usually don't want to eat rather than throwing up what they don't want to eat.

But given the HT ground mixes are whole prey, and of larger animals and thus include the structural bones, they probably are "bone heavy."

The tripe does help bring down the calciumhosphorus ratio, but not as much as plain meat would. The tripe has a Ca ratio of 1.1:1, so it's a perfectly balanced food as is. The inclusion in a ground mix would bring the Ca ratio down some, but not nearly what a couple of plain meals a week would, given there's so little calcium in meat/heart/organs.

Oh - as to the liver, it's a GREAT addition to the diet. But it should not be fed as a sole meal. That will most likely wind up with diarrhea or vomiting. In prey model raw, liver is just 5% of the total diet. Most PMR feeders provide organs as 1/3 or 1/2 of a meal several times a week.

 

[txcatmom]

Because trust me, even in a multi-cat household you can tell when a cat is constipated.

That's good to know.  Thanks for the input.  They've been eating the HT ground with bone for both meals for about 3 months....for one meal since the fall. 

I think it's a pretty good bet their meals have been bone heavy, so I think adding no more than 15% of their total diet plain meat is what I'll do for now.  I mixed in 50% plain chicken breast chunks with their ground HT tonight and it went over pretty well.  They left a few chunks but I cut them smaller and will sprinkle them with something yummy and offer them again in a few minutes.  I know they say bone-in for dental benefit but the way they were chewing I would think chunks of meat have some benefit too.  But maybe once they get used to them they will gulp them faster?  Hope not. 

 

[ldg]

Oh chewing meat definitely is good for their teeth! When they're eating the plain meat, try some gizzards. Those are GREAT for their teeth!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I emailed Tracy to find out the bone ratio on the ground turkey and chicken mixes, and she said probably 18-20% bone!  So when I get them, I order just ground turkey or ground chicken (without bones) in a smaller amount to mix into the larger amount to cut down on the percentage.  I didn't want to wait to see problems in the litter box

 

[harleydiva]

Here is the statement on bone content from My Pet Carnivore:

The average prey animal has about 10% to 15% bone, about 10% organs, and the rest muscle and fat and connective tissue.  That is Mother Nature's model and therefore our model ratio for all of our Whole Ground  products.

 

[txcatmom]

I didn't want to wait to see problems in the litter box

Yeah, that was my thinking too....especially since I wasn't sure how easily I would notice. That's great that you got the numbers from Tracy...I didn't even think of that, but it seemed their menu would be a bit too high in bone.   They liked the plain chunks I added....finished them up when I offered them a second time a little while after "first dinner."  Who knows, maybe they will become chunk addicts and I'll be scrambling to order some Call of the Wild or learn how to do prey model.  But for now this seems like a good solution.  Thanks for all the input! 

 

[stealthkitty]

Here's a question for you all: Does meowing in the litter box always mean a cat is constipated? I have one that will occasionally meow when pooping, but when I check the poop the consistency is like a soft tootsie roll, not hard or dry at all. Anyone experience something like this? What does it mean?

 

[Willowy]

Here's a question for you all: Does meowing in the litter box always mean a cat is constipated? I have one that will occasionally meow when pooping, but when I check the poop the consistency is like a soft tootsie roll, not hard or dry at all. Anyone experience something like this? What does it mean?

I've noticed that many younger kittens do meow while pooping. Why? Who knows? They just DO .

 

[txcatmom]

Does meowing in the litter box always mean a cat is constipated?

My Leo has been chatty about the litter box since we got him at 4 months....with no health problems.  He still talks about it now at 2 yrs of age, but not as much as he did when he was younger.  It's not really a distressed meow....sort of a lonely meow...like "come see what I did." 

 

[stealthkitty]

I've noticed that many younger kittens do meow while pooping. Why? Who knows? They just DO

.

My Leo has been chatty about the litter box since we got him at 4 months....with no health problems.  He still talks about it now at 2 yrs of age, but not as much as he did when he was younger.  It's not really a distressed meow....sort of a lonely meow...like "come see what I did." 

Thanks guys! A "lonely meow" is a very good way to describe how it sounds... thinking about it that way, it's as though he's expressing disappointment that he had to stop playing to go poop.

Or like he's calling his buddy over to come keep him company. (Or perhaps it's the kitten version of, "Mom! Come wipe me!"

)

I'm glad it's "normal" and nothing to worry about.