Starting a Raw diet?

[elliriyanna]

My Kitten Emma is 1 year in two weeks and I have never been able to get her to eat wet food she is on a very good dry food and drinks quite well the vets say she is completely healthy but I am a paranoid mommy ... I have tried pretty much every brand I have access to. I would like her to be on a 50/50 wet dry diet. 

I have been trying to research but good information seems hard to find so any information would be great. What do you feed how much how often and so on. 

Sorry if I seem ignorant I am just beginning to research

 

[mschauer]

I'm a bit confused. You mention "raw" in the thread title but ask about "wet" in your post. You do know that raw and wet aren't the same thing? Raw is literally raw meat and organs. Wet refers to the canned stuff you get at stores.

I suspect you really mean wet (canned) food rather than raw. If so, I think you will find over the long term that getting her to eat more wet food will be beneficial. 

Cats frequently don't immediately take to a new food so if she is used to dry you might have to work at it to get her to eat wet. You might try mixing just a tiny bit of wet into her dry, increasing the amount of wet slowly over time until she is eating the wet.

 

[elliriyanna]

Yes I know they are different my hope was to replace wet with raw ... I do NOT mean wet 

And wet is not new to her I have had her since she was 6 weeks and she has never taken to any wet food I tried I am not just now introduce her ... Mixing it doesnt work she hates  That 

Sorry about my original wording I thought I said that because she wont eat wet I would like to try her on a raw diet * facepalms* 

 

[mschauer]

OK. You should probably post in the raw feeding sub forum then. You'll get lots of advice there on how to transition a cat to a raw diet. There is a sticky at the top of that sub forum with links to information to get you started.

Don't be surprised if she doesn't take to raw food right away either. Some cats take a lot of convincing before they will eat what we want them to eat. If you keep at it she more than likely will eat raw. Persistence is important. 

 

[Willowy]

Just start offering raw meat. Cut up little tiny pieces of raw chicken (scissors are easier than knives for making tiny pieces) and offer it to her. If she snarfs it down, great! You'll have an easy time of it. If not, you have to trick her into it. There are tons of great tips for that in this forum, just poke around.

 

[elliriyanna]

Yeah my problem is what to feed her raw and how much how often bone in or boneless ... she LOOVES meat ... I got her to eat some cooked chicken so I may be able to get her to eat raw ... DO I only do chicken or are there other meats? 

 

[Willowy]

Chicken is a good starter meat. But the goal is to have a rotation of as many different kinds of meat as you can. Normal amount is 2%-3% of the cat's body weight daily. Usually feeding 3 times a day is recommended because acid can build up in their tummies if they go too long without eating (making them throw up). Bone-in or not is up to you and your cat. If not, you have to supplement with calcium.

If you want to go the easy route, you can buy any of the pre-made raw products avilable. Of course you pay for the convenience, but even though it's expensive, it still costs less than many high-quality canned foods.

 

[elliriyanna]

well she would still be getting her dry food. So she would not ever be going without food This is way more simple than I thought  

Is that why some cats are so pukey? Mine NEVER throws up 

I would rather prepare her food myself so I knnow exactly whats in it 

Emma is 6 lbs so about 60 grams a day of raw meat and 1/3 cup dry? 

 

[ldg]

Well, you shouldn't feed her just meat. It's a great way to start, for sure! But it's not a balanced diet long term.

You can supplement with calcium instead of feeding bone-in meals, but they do need some organs. The general rule of thumb is modeled after the prey they eat: 80% meat, 8-10% bone, 3-5% liver, and 3-5% other secreting organ (kidney, pancreas, spleen or something). Heart, lungs, and gizzards are considered muscle meat.

There are a number of kitties that have eaten dry during the transition to raw. Is the kibble you're feeding grain free and low carb? The issue is that grains and carbs slow down digestion, which if there are any bacterial issues with the kibble or the meat can cause diarrhea.

Here is the resource thread Willowy referred to: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread

If you're interested in making homemade, there's two ways to go: whole prey model (frankenprey) or ground. http://www.CatCentric.org has a lot of resources for feeding frankenprey: Dr. Pierson's site, http://www.catinfo.org/ has a lot of basic information about nutrition, and a time-tested recipe for making homemade ground food.

As to how much to feed her... we have no idea what dry food you're feeding her or what the manufacturer recommends as a feeding guideline, so it'd be really hard to know how to answer. Given she's still essentially a kitten, even though she's at a point where her energy needs are diminishing in relation to what they were, she most likely needs to be fed at the high end, if not a bit more. If she were eating all raw, at 4% she'd need about 110g; at 3% she'd need about 82g. So if you want to feed her kibble, then you just need to decide if you're going to provide a 70% raw / 30% kibble mix, a 60% raw / 40% kibble mix, etc. And I would ensure it is a low carb, grain free kibble to be as safe as possible.

 

[elliriyanna]

Yes its Evo chicken and turkey  completely grain free low carb and high protein ... And I wasnt just going to feed her dry food during the transition i was going to keep her on a half raw half dry diet ... 

The only organs I can really get are chicken livers  

I have done a LOT of research trying to find the very best diet for my little girl  

I want a 50/50 ... The manufacturing recommendations for a cat her size are 1/3 cup which is what I feed. and she is a little overweight since she is indoor only so I was thinking the 2% body weight calculation which is 56 grams a day I was thinking instead 2 servings a day 30 grams each and she gets her dry in the morning 

Here is a link to her food ... its the very best I can get in my budget and that she will eat ... I know wellness core is better 

http://www.naturapet.com/products/1441

 

[whollycat]

well she would still be getting her dry food. So she would not ever be going without food This is way more simple than I thought  

Is that why some cats are so pukey? Mine NEVER throws up 

I would rather prepare her food myself so I knnow exactly whats in it 

Emma is 6 lbs so about 60 grams a day of raw meat and 1/3 cup dry? 

It is not as simple as giving her raw meat. Meat contains much more phosphorus than calcium, so it is not balanced. You need to add ground bones or calcium supplement in the correct ratio to balance the calcium to phosphorus. Deficiencies or excess of either can cause health problems. I highly recommend visiting the raw forum for more information. A couple sites that I like regarding raw feeding are: http://www.catinfo.org/ and http://www.holisticat.com/why-raw.html

HTH a bit,

 

[elliriyanna]

well thats why I came here is to learn ... from the posts I had so far how was I supposed to know 

I found these sites I think but I need answers from owners and directions I wouldnt have come here if I could find the answers on a site for this ... Those sites make it so complicated 

 

[ldg]

Well... feeding your cat homemade food isn't rocket science, but it does take some learning to understand what's needed. And, of course, as you say, that's why you're here. But if you don't want to spend the time reading the information out there, and just want answers, most of the raw-feeding site owners are available for consultation for a fee.


To consult with Dr. Pierson, owner of www.catinfo.org, here is the information: http://knowwhatyoufeed.com/contact_us.html

To consult with Kymythy Schultze, here is the information: http://www.kymythy.com/consultation.html She does require you read her book prior to a consult.

To consult with RawFedCats' Linda Zurich, the consult form is on this page: http://www.rawfedcats.org/aboutcontact.htm

And if you're more interested in whole prey model (meat, bones, organs), Tracy Dion of CatCentric.org is available for consults http://catcentric.org/about/consultations/

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I am going to request this thread be moved into the Raw Forum for you, where you may get specific questins answered, although some raw feeders have already seen it and are helping you out.

One thing I know, though,is that kibble and raw digest at different rates, so you don't want to feed them at the same meal. Plus, a lot of people order their meat and organs over the internet.  There really is  wealth of info on the Raw Forum. 

 

[whollycat]

well thats why I came here is to learn ... from the posts I had so far how was I supposed to know 

I found these sites I think but I need answers from owners and directions I wouldnt have come here if I could find the answers on a site for this ... Those sites make it so complicated 

Please don't be discouraged, hon. If you take your time and visit the sites, they actually provide step-by-step instructions for recipes. It was quite daunting when I first started feeding raw, but since time was of the essence because my Maxie (Maine Coon w/EGC) had to have a better diet, I dived in and did what I could to learn about feeding raw. It's a process that can take some time, but oh so rewarding in the end!

Here are some diets listed at Holisticat: http://www.holisticat.com/well-fed/ - Sandy Arora also does fee-based consultations if you need extra help.

Also, a good site to get pre-ground with meat, bones, organs is from Tracy at Hare-Today. Many, many varieties of meats to choose from. Here's her site: https://www.hare-today.com/ Using something like her ground chicken with bones and organs would simplify things for you. I do add a couple pounds of extra hearts to a 5-pound chub so my kids avoid constipation issues, but if I don't have enough hearts, I add a fiber source (psyllium w/extra water--my kitties won't eat veggies). I get my hearts from Hare-Today also.

There are commercial frozen raw diets out there (like Nature's Variety from Only Natural Pet), but I didn't have much luck with these because of the added veggies, and in some cases fruit, that are added to them--my bubbies turned their noses up at all of those.

I mostly make my own ground mix using my Tasin grinder, packaging into daily portions in baggies and freezing, but in a pinch I have meats from Hare-Today on hand. I don't recommend buying pre-ground meats from a grocery store due to bacteria issues, but Sandy at Holisticat does have one boneless recipe (calcium supplement is listed to balance the diet) listed just to get folks going that don't have a grinder to do their own yet, or other reasons.

This might be a viable option to get you going by starting with some ground chicken w/bones/organs from H-Today. Unthaw a chub of the meat, mix in some water, and bag and re-freeze. Unthaw enough for a day or two and if needed, add more water to a consistency kitty likes, warm a bit by immersing in some warm water for a bit (to around room temp--or mouse temp, LOL), and feed. Once they are accepting of that, then you can add supplements such as B-complex, Vit E, Taurine, egg yolks, and salmon or krill oil. We can give advice on the best supplements to choose that have minimal fillers, etc. that we add for our kitties.

Best of luck in your new endeavor! You'll do fine, just take a deep breath and relax.

 

[ldg]

Yes, and the Hare-Today.com shipping rates are great! When my cats were still eating ground, I bought Hare-Today ground mixes, and added Alnutrin as per the instructions. https://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=71f6d31ecd3110b28e4c9cdbe77cc057

And since you're talking grams, I'm thinking you may be in Canada? In that case, you can order from http://www.carnivora.ca/index.cfm. I SO wish they shipped to the U.S.!