Smaller portion to Hare today?

[Babypinkweeb]

I want to try giving some raw gizzard to my boy to help prevent teeth issues, but not sure if I want to commit to a 2lb frozen size offered on Hare Today. My apt's fridge doesn't have a big freezer and it's almost always full. I understand that Hare Today is safer due to them understanding it will be eaten raw by pets, and it's best to avoid grocery store for sourcing. Anyone have any other suggestions to get a safe and sanitary small amount of gizzard to see if my boy will take it to?

PS: there is a popular butcher shop in my town, but I'm not sure if that is a viable option since of course it's meant to be cooked and eaten by people. If I do contact them, what can I ask to know if they will be a good option?

 

[goingpostal]

There's nothing wrong with grocery store gizzards, my grocery store usually offers chicken ones alone and turkey giblet packs with heart, liver, gizzard.

 

[Juniper_Junebug]

I feed my kitty gizzards from the farmers market, sourced from a local farm. I think the reason people sometimes say to avoid the grocery store is because meat sits out unfrozen for unknown periods of time. At my farmers market, everything comes frozen.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

There's nothing wrong with grocery store gizzards, my grocery store usually offers chicken ones alone and turkey giblet packs with heart, liver, gizzard.

Will they be ok fed raw? I only worry due to seeing posts on here on sanitation of raw meats in grocery stores since they expect you to cook it.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

I feed my kitty gizzards from the farmers market, sourced from a local farm. I think the reason people sometimes say to avoid the grocery store is because meat sits out unfrozen for unknown periods of time. At my farmers market, everything comes frozen.

I saw your post actually! I'm not sure if our local farmers market has a meat seller, and for now trying to avoid big crowds. I'll search around for anything similar.

 

[Beholder]

Will they be ok fed raw? I only worry due to seeing posts on here on sanitation of raw meats in grocery stores since they expect you to cook it.

You are correct that it is best to avoid grocery store meats from the meat section. As Juniper_Junebug mentioned they sit around for long periods of time and often don't have the best temperature control. This is usually okay since it's cooked for humans, but not suitable for pets. However, anything frozen is usually okay, and that includes grocery store frozen meats. Also, any butcher that cuts the meat on site (so most?) are also good options. Freshly cut meat will not have the same bacteria as grocery store meats.

This may not be conventional for a small apartment, but if you plan to do all raw feeding for a while, a large freezer is a great investment. Target sells a 5 Cu ft one for about 130 and 7 cu ft for 150. It's expensive in the short term and takes up some space, but it's been a lifesaver for us in our apartment. It's also payed for itself and saved us money since we can now buy in bulk.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

You are correct that it is best to avoid grocery store meats from the meat section. As Juniper_Junebug mentioned they sit around for long periods of time and often don't have the best temperature control. This is usually okay since it's cooked for humans, but not suitable for pets. However, anything frozen is usually okay, and that includes grocery store frozen meats. Also, any butcher that cuts the meat on site (so most?) are also good options. Freshly cut meat will not have the same bacteria as grocery store meats.

This may not be conventional for a small apartment, but if you plan to do all raw feeding for a while, a large freezer is a great investment. Target sells a 5 Cu ft one for about 130 and 7 cu ft for 150. It's expensive in the short term and takes up some space, but it's been a lifesaver for us in our apartment. It's also payed for itself and saved us money since we can now buy in bulk.

Thank you for your reply! There is a highly rated old family run butcher shop in my town so maybe that is an ok place to start. I'm not doing raw or home cooked full feeding, but just starting with some gizzards to see if my boy will eat it to help his teeth. I guess worst case I can just boil them haha! In the future if I manage to adopt younger cats or cats who are able to understand how to eat raw, I'd love to invest in something like that!

 

[goingpostal]

Will they be ok fed raw? I only worry due to seeing posts on here on sanitation of raw meats in grocery stores since they expect you to cook it.

My cats, dogs and ferrets have been eating meat from the grocery store for well over a decade at this point, I also thaw and refreeze meat on the regular to portion it smaller. Everyone has their own comfort level though. I'm used to my cats stealing ferret meat that's sat out for hours to all day and my dogs digging up and eating meals they buried days earlier. Animals are pretty used to bacteria and set up to deal with it.

 

[Beholder]

Thank you for your reply! There is a highly rated old family run butcher shop in my town so maybe that is an ok place to start. I'm not doing raw or home cooked full feeding, but just starting with some gizzards to see if my boy will eat it to help his teeth. I guess worst case I can just boil them haha! In the future if I manage to adopt younger cats or cats who are able to understand how to eat raw, I'd love to invest in something like that!

I'm glad you have a local butcher near by! It's definitely a viable option.

Two of my cats didn't start eating raw until around 6 years old. They both adjusted rapidly to it, so much so that they prefered it over their canned wet food immediately. Every cat's different though, and I've heard a lot of stories of some cats taking much longer.

 

[Beholder]

My cats, dogs and ferrets have been eating meat from the grocery store for well over a decade at this point, I also thaw and refreeze meat on the regular to portion it smaller. Everyone has their own comfort level though. I'm used to my cats stealing ferret meat that's sat out for hours to all day and my dogs digging up and eating meals they buried days earlier. Animals are pretty used to bacteria and set up to deal with it.

You're right that cats have stomachs that can deal with bacteria very well because they're built to eat raw meat, however, they wouldn't be eating old meat that has been sitting around for long periods of time in the wild. Obviously everyone can do what they're comfortable with, but I've heard too many stories of grocery store raw going wrong to do it myself. Also, one of the most highly recommended sites for transitioning a cat to a raw food diet (felinenutrition.org) says this about it:

You might ask, "Why can't I just get ground meat from the grocery store?" Ground meat from a grocery store has the potential to have higher levels of pathogens. When meat is ground it greatly increases the surface area where bacteria can multiply. It also spreads any bacteria present on the outside of the meat throughout the mix. Meat ground for human consumption is often not handled with the same care as meat used in raw food for cats. Commercial raw cat food makers maintain very high standards and the meat is immediately frozen after grinding to keep bacteria from multiplying. Grocery store ground meat is intended to be thoroughly cooked. In fact, they are counting on the fact that you will cook it. We are not saying that all grocery ground meat is bad, just that the potential for trouble is higher. Keep in mind that raw meat itself is not dangerous, fresh meat is pretty much pathogen-free. Pathogens can get introduced onto the meat – and are only on the outside of the cut – during slaughter and handling.

StackPath

 

[goingpostal]

We weren't discussing ground meat, which is what is referenced in your quote, (I'd love to see some numbers or facts to back up that statement too) but I don't buy or feed ground meat really at all, the texture is a big turnoff to my animals and it defeats the goal of chewing and teeth cleaning that raw chunks give. Commercial raw foods have been recalled numerous times for bacteria, as are treats, kibble, etc.

 

[Beholder]

We weren't discussing ground meat, which is what is referenced in your quote, (I'd love to see some numbers or facts to back up that statement too) but I don't buy or feed ground meat really at all, the texture is a big turnoff to my animals and it defeats the goal of chewing and teeth cleaning that raw chunks give. Commercial raw foods have been recalled numerous times for bacteria, as are treats, kibble, etc.

I didn't say we were, I just gave that quote as an example from a well-known site that many raw feeders respect, so much so that it's pinned along with others at the top of this forum. You didn't specify if you fed ground as well in your last post so I though I would throw it in in case other people see your statement and think it's perfectly safe.

When it comes to whole cuts of meat, the bacteria is present on the outside which is why some raw feeders recommend taking the skin off or partially baking it if you're going to feed it at all. The exception would be frozen meat or freshly cut, which hasn't had time to sit around. Most raw feeders on this site and others would say the same. Again....cats are not meant to eat rotting meat sitting around in a meat section for weeks at god knows what temperature.

Unfortunately, I would love to see numbers as well, but as raw feeding is ill researched we can only go by what holistic vets recommend, and none of the prominent ones that I have seen recommend grocery store (meat-section) meat. There have been loads of studies on the bacteria on grocery store meats (as well as temperature checks- CBC Marketplace did a great episode on that one) but obviously none of that meat was then fed to cats. So all we have to use is the science that we know. We know grocery store meat has far more pathogens than freshly cut and tends to sit for longer periods of time (and in many cases not a proper temperatures). We know cats would not naturally eat old or spoiled meat in the wild, unless starving. Therefore, we can only assume that their guts have no reason to have evolved for that either. I could also cite a number of anecdotal cases from people on this site, but the obvious problem with anecdotal cases is that we have no way to certify them. So again, we must go with the current science if we want to ensure our pet's safety. You can feed your cats whatever you like, and so can everyone else, but it's also important that people know the potential risks.

And yes, all sorts of commercial foods have been recalled. That has absolutely nothing to do with grocery store raw food. That's it's own separate argument.