Liver failure :(

FeebysOwner

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Is it more tricky to inject into the skin above his leg? I don't see a lot of instructional videos about that. If it's risky, I could just take him in for a moment and let the vet inject it, as we live only 2 min walk away from the vet. Last time we came in for cerenia shot, I carried him in my arms, went in, the vet injected it while I was still holding him and we were on our way. Although injecting at home would be eveeen better.
I know it certainly looks trickier to me! Feeby's vet is doing blood draws via the inner leg/thigh. And, it sure looks harder to me, but maybe it really isn't. Ask your vet about doing it a home the next time you see them. Maybe they can show you a few times before you try.
 

cat nap

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Thanks!
I gave him a couple of shots last week so I think I would manage, however the vet advised against injecting into the skin between the shoulder blades as it can give him an abscess. Is it more tricky to inject into the skin above his leg? I don't see a lot of instructional videos about that. If it's risky, I could just take him in for a moment and let the vet inject it, as we live only 2 min walk away from the vet. Last time we came in for cerenia shot, I carried him in my arms, went in, the vet injected it while I was still holding him and we were on our way. Although injecting at home would be eveeen better.
Funny thing is I also need B-12 injections, so me and Musiaka are on the same boat :)

By the way Musiaka hasn't vomited yet! Even after eating the chlorophyum. He usually holds up pretty well after several cerenia shots and might avoid vomiting for up to a month. Then it comes back.
Hi Musiaka,:wave3:...
as daftcat75 previously wrote...there are many youtube videos with very good instructions and visuals...on how to give sub-q injections at home.

It's kind of great, though, that you live only 2 min walk away from your vet. :)
You get fresh air and exercise from the walk...and hopefully your vet does not charge too much money...for giving those injections, either.
I also like FeebysOwner's suggestion of asking your vet...or even a vet tech...to show you a few times on how they do it...so that you see their methods...and tips and tricks...to getting it done fast.

**One of the videos that I find extremely useful...is done by 'Fundamentally Feline'.
She really explains things well,...and has so many different videos...on so many cat related topics.
Check this one out,...which does specifically deal with B12 injections:


**Also, not sure if it would be helpful or not...but would putting those Epato tablets into 'gelatin capsules' ...make the pilling easier for Musiaka.
(I don't know with ibd cats if this is okay, or not,...due to gelatin shell or absorption...so probably best to ask the Vet.)
(I'm not sure about the different sizes of the empty gelatin capsules...and the ones that would be useful for you...as I have never tried them myself...but have read on this Site...how others have ordered them...for placing awful tasting pills inside of them...or adding more pills to one capsule...for easier pill giving. You might have to research online...for advice about sizes and reviews.)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PYVJU1A/?tag=

**Lastly, does your Epato come in different forms...like pastes and liquid:
Maybe the paste would taste better and easier to give to Musiaka. (just a thought.)
▷ Epato Pasta Plus For Cats Fatro 【 Cat 】
 

daftcat75

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Hi Musiaka,:wave3:...
as daftcat75 previously wrote...there are many youtube videos with very good instructions and visuals...on how to give sub-q injections at home.

It's kind of great, though, that you live only 2 min walk away from your vet. :)
You get fresh air and exercise from the walk...and hopefully your vet does not charge too much money...for giving those injections, either.
I also like FeebysOwner's suggestion of asking your vet...or even a vet tech...to show you a few times on how they do it...so that you see their methods...and tips and tricks...to getting it done fast.

**One of the videos that I find extremely useful...is done by 'Fundamentally Feline'.
She really explains things well,...and has so many different videos...on so many cat related topics.
Check this one out,...which does specifically deal with B12 injections:


**Also, not sure if it would be helpful or not...but would putting those Epato tablets into 'gelatin capsules' ...make the pilling easier for Musiaka.
(I don't know with ibd cats if this is okay, or not,...due to gelatin shell or absorption...so probably best to ask the Vet.)
(I'm not sure about the different sizes of the empty gelatin capsules...and the ones that would be useful for you...as I have never tried them myself...but have read on this Site...how others have ordered them...for placing awful tasting pills inside of them...or adding more pills to one capsule...for easier pill giving. You might have to research online...for advice about sizes and reviews.)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PYVJU1A/?tag=

**Lastly, does your Epato come in different forms...like pastes and liquid:
Maybe the paste would taste better and easier to give to Musiaka. (just a thought.)
▷ Epato Pasta Plus For Cats Fatro 【 Cat 】
Gelatin is good for IBD cats. Like today’s collagen health food craze for people. I used to make my Krista meat stock (like bone broth but not cooked so long) for her gut. It seemed to help until that fateful undercooked drumstick that almost certainly was the source of a terrible clostridium infection.🤦🏼‍♂️😿
 
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Musiaka

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I know it certainly looks trickier to me! Feeby's vet is doing blood draws via the inner leg/thigh. And, it sure looks harder to me, but maybe it really isn't. Ask your vet about doing it a home the next time you see them. Maybe they can show you a few times before you try.
Once, a month of two ago, I got a cerenia shot for Musiaka and the vet was quite easy going about me injecting it, just showed me real quick on another cat and said I was good to go. But I got home and chickened out!
It was a bit easier for me to inject into the skin above Musiaka's shoulder blades, because there's less space to get things wrong, lol
 
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Musiaka

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Hi Musiaka,:wave3:...
as daftcat75 previously wrote...there are many youtube videos with very good instructions and visuals...on how to give sub-q injections at home.

It's kind of great, though, that you live only 2 min walk away from your vet. :)
You get fresh air and exercise from the walk...and hopefully your vet does not charge too much money...for giving those injections, either.
I also like FeebysOwner's suggestion of asking your vet...or even a vet tech...to show you a few times on how they do it...so that you see their methods...and tips and tricks...to getting it done fast.

**One of the videos that I find extremely useful...is done by 'Fundamentally Feline'.
She really explains things well,...and has so many different videos...on so many cat related topics.
Check this one out,...which does specifically deal with B12 injections:


**Also, not sure if it would be helpful or not...but would putting those Epato tablets into 'gelatin capsules' ...make the pilling easier for Musiaka.
(I don't know with ibd cats if this is okay, or not,...due to gelatin shell or absorption...so probably best to ask the Vet.)
(I'm not sure about the different sizes of the empty gelatin capsules...and the ones that would be useful for you...as I have never tried them myself...but have read on this Site...how others have ordered them...for placing awful tasting pills inside of them...or adding more pills to one capsule...for easier pill giving. You might have to research online...for advice about sizes and reviews.)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PYVJU1A/?tag=

**Lastly, does your Epato come in different forms...like pastes and liquid:
Maybe the paste would taste better and easier to give to Musiaka. (just a thought.)
▷ Epato Pasta Plus For Cats Fatro 【 Cat 】
Hey there cat nap cat nap ! :)
I think we might go to the vet for a sub-q shot (because Musiaka had some diarrhea-ish stools these days) and maybe a b-12 shot tomorrow and I will ask the vet to teach me how to inject. Also, I've been taking Musiaka for walk on a leash these days and now he's crazy about going outside, so going to the vet might ground him a little, lol

I've been wondering about those gelatin capsules, but maybe the Epato pill is too large for them, hmmm. There's quite a lot of powder when I crush one. But I might order for a test anyway. Anything to makes the pilling less dramatic! And yes, the paste option was also available at vet, but since it went so well the last time I bought it in a pill form, I thought - nah, no reason for it to not go well this time either. But god is it messy this time around, I try mixing the powder up with some lickable treats or tuna water and it gets everywhere - on the floor, on Musiaka's fur, on my clothes! Musiaka spits a lot of it out. I think he just doesn't trust me anymore, cause I doubt it tastes so bad! :D
 
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Musiaka

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I just don't understand the pooping situation. What's with that? It used to be 1-2 poops in 24 hours, now it sometimes even 3. Mostly normal poops, no diarrhea, though slightly softer sometimes (never runny). I started keeping a poop diary now as well! Can it be that Specific's Digestive Care wet food is causing this? It's more of a recovery food, which I'm still feeding Musiaka after his liver failure and I wonder if its too fast to absorb. Should be change to a more normal wet food already? He receives a little bit of kibble for the night too, RC Hepatic
 

cat nap

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I just don't understand the pooping situation. What's with that? It used to be 1-2 poops in 24 hours, now it sometimes even 3. Mostly normal poops, no diarrhea, though slightly softer sometimes (never runny). I started keeping a poop diary now as well! Can it be that Specific's Digestive Care wet food is causing this? It's more of a recovery food, which I'm still feeding Musiaka after his liver failure and I wonder if its too fast to absorb. Should be change to a more normal wet food already? He receives a little bit of kibble for the night too, RC Hepatic
It could possibly be some ingredient in the Specific Digestive Care wet food.
But it could also be the milk thistle...
or the cerenia, too.
So I don't know what to say.

**Definitely write down all the ingredients in his food...and see if there is a possible trigger or pattern.
Also writing down his medications, and supplements, too,...and if they have possible side effects.
This way, you could always bring the list in...and have your Vet look at it...and then maybe something very obvious to them...will stand out.

I don't think I would change the wet food to a different wet food already...if it is the one the Vet prescribed...to give it an experimental trial...and see how it goes.
How many days has he been on it?
Also, can you ask your Vet tomorrow...if adding some type of fiber would help...or would this just cause constipation?
 

daftcat75

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I may have been grasping for straws (because that's what you do when trying to firm up liquid lymphoma poops.) But I believe milk thistle made Krista's poops softer. And I know xanthan gum did. Anything smooth like those lickable treats will almost certainly have xanthan gum to make it smooth.
 
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Musiaka

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cat nap cat nap and daftcat75 daftcat75
Most of Musiaka's poops are not soft, just some of them. I'd say the majority is of healthy consistency. But it's just... a lot! He pooped at 22 o'clock yesterday and then 7 am today. Both quite big poops (non-soft, regular). Let's say that's the main problem isn't consistency, it's the frequency. I'm worried about malabsorbtion...Although Specifics Digestive support should be easily absorbed and digested.
Unfortunately I cannot ask my vet about it as we totally don't really agree on what's good to feed him. She is preaching a 100% veterinary kibble diet. In her opinion Musiaka should only be eating RC Hepatic and that's it. I told her I'm mainly giving him Specific's Digestive Care and she was not happy about it: "well, it's your choice, but you will make it worse for him", she said. It's as if she thinks his liver went bad out of the blue and is supposed to be treated like an isolated issue.
cat nap cat nap , the link to Epato is EPATO® 750 - Drnpet
 

MissClouseau

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Unfortunately I cannot ask my vet about it as we totally don't really agree on what's good to feed him. She is preaching a 100% veterinary kibble diet. In her opinion Musiaka should only be eating RC Hepatic and that's it. I told her I'm mainly giving him Specific's Digestive Care and she was not happy about it: "well, it's your choice, but you will make it worse for him", she said. It's as if she thinks his liver went bad out of the blue and is supposed to be treated like an isolated issue.
My cat has only one liver enzyme high right now without a symptom of illness and our vet also prescribed Hepatic food and insisted on it despite me saying my cat has grain intolerances and the food has grains. I still got the food. My understanding is and what it talks like on the food box this food isn’t recommended to be fed with forever. Not like say kidney disease foods. It’s just temporary to be certain kind of gentle on the liver. Our vet only asked us to feed with this for a month. (Then we will re-check the liver enzymes.)

Not to say feed with that or not. I myself won’t push this food much because as some other vet says that would be screwing her intestines while trying to fix the liver. But not feeding with it has its own risks too (especially if the food you feed with is somehow harming the liver.)
 
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Musiaka

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My cat has only one liver enzyme high right now without a symptom of illness and our vet also prescribed Hepatic food and insisted on it despite me saying my cat has grain intolerances and the food has grains. I still got the food. My understanding is and what it talks like on the food box this food isn’t recommended to be fed with forever. Not like say kidney disease foods. It’s just temporary to be certain kind of gentle on the liver. Our vet only asked us to feed with this for a month. (Then we will re-check the liver enzymes.)

Not to say feed with that or not. I myself won’t push this food much because as some other vet says that would be screwing her intestines while trying to fix the liver. But not feeding with it has its own risks too (especially if the food you feed with is somehow harming the liver.)
I do give him some of the hepatic kibble (leave it out for the night) but other than that yeah, I am also reluctant about the ingredients. If it's an ibd flareup that altered the liver enzymes, feels constraintuitive to feed something aggrevating for the ibd. Specific's Digestive support food is supposed to be highly digestible, compensate for nutrient loss, absorb toxic components in the gut and has an increased electrolite count, so I'm thinking it should be ok for the liver? There was no copper in the nutrients list either. Although there's yucca powder in it, not sure how it affects the liver...
 
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Musiaka

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We went in an got a b-complex shot (they didn't have b-12 only) and some hepagen too.
But unfortunately there was no time to learn on how to inject today :(
 
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Musiaka

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Don't know if I'm imagining things, but Musiaka got very sleepy and in a bad mood after the vet today. Very different from how he was before today. But it can't be the b vitamins, right?
 

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B vitamins usually make them perky. Maybe his patience with all these vet trips is running out. Krista went from curious and confident at the vets' to feisty and "fractious" ("Caution - will bite!") over so many vet visits. She never showed me that side at home. I also got in the practice of giving her a couple of hours after vet visits to collect herself and calm down. Back before the pandemic, I used to go to the tap room after vet visits. It helped me relax after the vet too. Maybe just give him a couple of hours before you judge his behavior. Or call the vet if you're concerned.
 
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Musiaka

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Damn it, Musiaka ate a little bit of a tulip leaf today! I read that it's highly toxic, so I'm in a panic mode right now... he was completely ignoring them at first and we were keeping them away, but somehow today he got interested and got to them. Don't know what's going to happen now... his liver might not cope with the intoxication :(
Should we go to the vet and what could they do? Musiaka isn't looking bad yet, but has had less interest in his wet food
 

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Damn it, Musiaka ate a little bit of a tulip leaf today! I read that it's highly toxic, so I'm in a panic mode right now... he was completely ignoring them at first and we were keeping them away, but somehow today he got interested and got to them. Don't know what's going to happen now... his liver might not cope with the intoxication :(
Should we go to the vet and what could they do? Musiaka isn't looking bad yet, but has had less interest in his wet food
The most toxic part of tulips is the bulbs. Call the vet to check if a single leaf would warrant a vet visit for fluid therapy.
 
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Musiaka

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The most toxic part of tulips is the bulbs. Call the vet to check if a single leaf would warrant a vet visit for fluid therapy.
No symptoms yet, so maybe we're fine! If nothing comes up during the night...
 
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Musiaka

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Nothing came up, no vomiting! Musiaka is eating as normal. Those 5 days getting Cerenia injections seem to have done wonders for him - no vomiting for almost 3 weeks now. Usually he would vomit directly after eating any type of plant. He didn't neither when he ate some chlorophytum nor tulip leaves (although of course he ate very little until he was stopped). Doesn't seem to "burp" or smack his lips either.
When vomiting comes back, we will get another 5 doses for sure
 
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Musiaka

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Ok, so vomiting seems to be back.
Musiaka just threw up and it was a huuuuge hairball and some bile... I think he tried eating tulip leaves because he needed to clear out the hair ball. So it seems this whole time he didn't vomit, the hair was collecting
 
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