In need of suggestions

[yemiya]

I met my cat about 5 years ago in my yard, and we think he was 5 or 6 years at that time. I don't think he's ever had a home, thus probably feral. It took quite some time for me to be able to touch him and he was (and still is) very skittish. Slowly, he decided he wanted to discover what was indoors, but discovering did not mean staying. Eventually, he began coming in at night to eat (only to eat--not stay all night), although I also fed him outside earlier in day. Then, he'd sit with me on the couch for awhile, but I had to keep the door ajar, which he always checked. Eventually, I was able to close the door without him panicking or constantly checking it because he trusted that I would let him out when he wanted. I should mention that at one point, he had a wound from a fight, and I tried to keep him in with a cone per vet's instructions, but after spending 48 hours with him going a little crazy to get out, I relented. Presently, he sleeps during the days, but only outdoors. He can't relate to being indoors during the days. He's inside part of the night--may come in around 9pm, eat a little, sleep for awhile on the couch with me, but inevitably goes out again. Then, he may come in and out until he settles down with me in the bed for a few hours (loves to cuddle, kiss, & groom me---amazingly), but can't make it through the night without going out. He refuses to use litter box, but that's usually not the reason he wants to go out. Even in the rain, he'll go out, just to be out. I don't have the option of a cat flap and because I don't want him out any. more than necessary, I have a motion sensor camera that alerts me to when he wants in, which works well, but sometimes, he only wants to eat more prior to going outside again, and other times wants to sleep some more. Needless to say, my sleep is off and on. One of the problems with this (other than disturbed sleep), is that being out all day makes it difficult for me to get him to the vet--which is major problem. I have a very large yard and he sometimes sleeps at property next door, but either way, it's just about impossible to get to him and get him in carrier for vet. If I keep him inside, I would do it early morning (between 5 & 7) which is usually the last time I'll see him before he goes off to his daily hibernation. So, I'd have to deal with his crying and hiding for what could be hours before vet appointment--and then, of course, there's the challenge of getting him in carrier--if I can get to him. Also, there's always a change in his behavior after I try to get him in carrier--more skittish, wary of me, etc., and if I have to do this for hours (it would be the first time), I fear the consequences, in terms of his not wanting to come inside anymore, etc. In addition to being feral, I believe he has PTSD from being trapped in structures a few times, and it's just heartbreaking to see what he goes through even if I don't open the door fast enough for him!!. I need to take him to the vet and this is just hanging over me like a dark cloud until I can get him there. Any suggestions?? Thanks!!

 

[poolcat]

My first thought, as I read this, was that he has you well trained. Which probably isn't fair, since you're obviously doing what you think is best for this poor old guy. And I know that feeling of dread when you have a cat that needs to go to the vet but isn't easy to catch. I'll be interested in seeing what Kwik suggests.

 

[yemiya]

Definitely has me well trained & I'm the one who feels trapped at this point. But thanks!

 

[poolcat]

I wonder if a dose of gabapentin would make him dopey enough that you could get him into a carrier. And might keep him calm once he's in it. It's not exactly a sedative, but it's used as one on cats. (Also as a painkiller.) That's something you could ask your vet, and get it from them if they think it would help.

 

[yemiya]

The problem with giving him a sedative is that it would have to be added to his food and it's hard to predict when and how much he'll eat and if he'll eat at all if tastes the medicine which he usually does. I want him to have a dental and don't know if he can take a sedative prior to that--but again, it's kind of a moot issue anyway since it's dependent on eating. He's fine after about 10 minutes in carrier--will just huddle in a corner. He's fine with vet as well--harder with me.

 

[yemiya]

Just to add to previous post, he's never been in carrier for much more than an hour, so I don't know how he'd be with several.

 

[Kwik]

I couldnt agree with poolcat more ( you are well trained)but at least you know it so there's some hope-lol Though I'm not quite sure what you're asking and what your end goal is here?

So,if I may ask- what's this little bossy fellows name is?I understand he's around 11 or 12 now,right? Do you want to make your life easier,without worrying his whereabouts and ensure he lives out the remainder of his life in the safety of your home( would be my choice)OR do you just want to get him to the Vet and continue providing for your outdoor friend?

This is what he knows,it's not that he's " happier " outside or will be " unhappy" as a strictly indoor cat - he is comfortable and familiar with his routine and environment and doesn't know any better- I'm not so sure you'd be up for the task as you relent pretty quickly when he protests- so let us know what you want to do and we'll be happy to offer suggestions - done properly he'd make a wonderful housecat,it'll would take time,patience,love and commitment without giving in- if you're all in so are we and it will be a success,he's not a true feral

 

[Kwik]

Just to add to previous post, he's never been in carrier for much more than an hour, so I don't know how he'd be with several.

He'll be fine,cover it with something breathable and he'll relax- most Vets are very understanding that trapping can often not go as planned and are happy to work with you by having you drop off and they will call you to pick up if you are unable to sat an appt time when you explain the situation- but usually it's best to trap the night before so you can set an exact appointment time,cats are fine in a trap or carrier overnight......

Thats much better than all the stress and anxiety on you and pussy cat having to race around hours before an appt and the uncertainty of making it in time..... that's much more unnecessary chaos that can be avoided with a good plan and less pressure worrying about missing your appt

 

[poolcat]

The problem with giving him a sedative is that it would have to be added to his food and it's hard to predict when and how much he'll eat and if he'll eat at all if tastes the medicine which he usually does. I want him to have a dental and don't know if he can take a sedative prior to that--but again, it's kind of a moot issue anyway since it's dependent on eating. He's fine after about 10 minutes in carrier--will just huddle in a corner. He's fine with vet as well--harder with me.

My cats are always better behaved at the vet than at home... probably because they're afraid. Though I did have one who went berserk when someone dropped something in a different room at the vet. I suggest that you talk to the vet, even if it's just to warn them that it's a feral cat that you're bringing in.

I give gabapentin mixed into a little bit of tuna juice, and take up all food in advance so I know the cat will be hungry enough to lap it up.

My indoor-only feral cat will be going to the vet next week for the first time. I think he'll need dental work because there's a smell of rot coming off him. I've already emailed to the vet a laundry list of things that need to be done while he's there, then talked it over with the vet. Since they only do dentals on Thursdays, I'm going to drop Rusty off the day before so they have plenty of time to do everything else. If he needs his teeth cleaned or pulled, he will be boarded overnight.

I wouldn't worry about leaving him in a carrier for a few hours. If you wrap a folded towel with a puppy pad for inside the carrier, he should be comfortable and the pad will soak up any urine. (Take an extra pad along to the vet so you can replace it if needed.) Spray a little Feliway in the carrier a half hour before putting the cat into it and cover the carrier completely with a blanket or towel. Both will help keep him calm.

 

[yemiya]

I couldnt agree with poolcat more ( you are well trained)but at least you know it so there's some hope-lol Though I'm not quite sure what you're asking and what your end goal is here?

So,if I may ask- what's this little bossy fellows name is?I understand he's around 11 or 12 now,right? Do you want to make your life easier,without worrying his whereabouts and ensure he lives out the remainder of his life in the safety of your home( would be my choice)OR do you just want to get him to the Vet and continue providing for your outdoor friend?

This is what he knows,it's not that he's " happier " outside or will be " unhappy" as a strictly indoor cat - he is comfortable and familiar with his routine and environment and doesn't know any better- I'm not so sure you'd be up for the task as you relent pretty quickly when he protests- so let us know what you want to do and we'll be happy to offer suggestions - done properly he'd make a wonderful housecat,it'll would take time,patience,love and commitment without giving in- if you're all in so are we and it will be a success,he's not a true feral

 

[yemiya]

Hello & thanks for your response. I realized, last night, that I didn't really make it clear as to what I was asking for, so thanks for pointing that out. The "bossy" fellow's name is Babes. Age is unknown and each vet differs in estimate, but probably around 10 years old. I know there are many people, like yourself, that believe most cats can adapt to being indoors with time, but I don't believe that's the case here. He's pretty hardcore outdoors. No interest in sitting at a window and looking out, nor playing with toys. His world is outdoors and I don't believe I can change that. I'm aware of the dangers of the outdoors, but would rather he live a shorter, happier life than longer and miserable. In terms of being a "true" feral, I'm 99% sure he never had a home or close relationship with a person. He's not quite the same cat that he was 5 years ago, when we met, so much of what I described in terms of cuddling, etc., has evolved over time. He's still very skittish and I have to be very cautious in how I touch him, etc., and will never be able to pick him up.

I guess what I'd like input about is how to break the pattern of in and out at night, and getting him to vet.

 

[yemiya]

My cats are always better behaved at the vet than at home... probably because they're afraid. Though I did have one who went berserk when someone dropped something in a different room at the vet. I suggest that you talk to the vet, even if it's just to warn them that it's a feral cat that you're bringing in.

I give gabapentin mixed into a little bit of tuna juice, and take up all food in advance so I know the cat will be hungry enough to lap it up.

My indoor-only feral cat will be going to the vet next week for the first time. I think he'll need dental work because there's a smell of rot coming off him. I've already emailed to the vet a laundry list of things that need to be done while he's there, then talked it over with the vet. Since they only do dentals on Thursdays, I'm going to drop Rusty off the day before so they have plenty of time to do everything else. If he needs his teeth cleaned or pulled, he will be boarded overnight.

I wouldn't worry about leaving him in a carrier for a few hours. If you wrap a folded towel with a puppy pad for inside the carrier, he should be comfortable and the pad will soak up any urine. (Take an extra pad along to the vet so you can replace it if needed.) Spray a little Feliway in the carrier a half hour before putting the cat into it and cover the carrier completely with a blanket or towel. Both will help keep him calm.

 

[yemiya]

Yes, I know he's better behaved at vet because he's absolutely terrified---at times hyperventilating. He's been to several vets and they've had no problem so no need to warn. I explain his history & there's never been a concern. The problem with food and meds is that he's extremely picky--so no matter how hungry he is, he will not eat something that doesn't appeal--will literally walk away and go without. So, sedating isn't a guarantee. Also, Feliway does nothing. As far as being in the carrier for hours, it's more his mental state I'm worried about than comfort--I've made it very comfortable and I don't think urinating will be a problem & I always cover the carrier. He is scheduled for a dental Tuesday, which I've waited some time for, but I wanted to get him in before that for blood work, etc. He may have some other things going on which I'd like to know about prior to the dental. Since the vet he's scheduled with does dentals only in the mornings, I'm going to try getting Babes in Saturday morning (no dentals). So, I'll have to try to get him in carrier before he leaves in morning, which could be anywhere between 5 & 7am. Once he's out, there's no chance of getting him in because he sleeps all day in a "secret" spot on the property next to me, and doesn't reappear until about 5pm. This wasn't the case previously--not sure if it's due to not feeling well or the weather--maybe he's found a warm spot next door that he hasn't found here--not sure--summer will tell.

 

[Kwik]

Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I don't see you breaking any of Babes habits because he has been conditioned to get his own way and come & go at will- cats do have very routine schedules that barely vary & the going in and out is part of Babes routine

- even if you can stick to your guns and keep him in for xxx amount of time and out for xxx amount of time I don't see how that would change much of anything really except to stress him-unfortunately as an owner one cannot have the best of both worlds,if you are insistent on allowing him to have both inside and outside then you may as well install a pet flap so you don't have to get up & down

As you seem to be his food source only these days( from his perspective and from what you said sbout his being so skittish of you) the only real control you have is his feeding schedule- he doesn't even sleep on your property so it's not his safe space

At least you are getting him medical attention and providing his essential needs....I appreciate your efforts and do wish you the best ( and Babes) I don't try to convince anyone of anything they do not believe is possible,I only hope to encourage if it's what they hope for.Thank you for caring for Babes,no doubt he thanks you too

 

[yemiya]

Thanks for your response! It's not that he's terribly skittish with me--I just have to be cautious in the way I handle him---best when I'm at the same level as him--sitting or lying down together. Regarding cat flap--it's not an option. I rent & owner didn't want one installed in door but it wouldn't work anyway. I explored other options--some through window, etc., but to no avail. The other issue with cat flaps is that we have raccoons, opossums and skunks---that would also be able to access. I know there are chip activated cat flaps but have read that there are issues with those as well. I even left the door ajar for awhile but had to stop after I got raccoon and opossum visitors inside. I now have a wireless security camera on porch that alerts me when Babes wants in--so, at least I can minimize the amount of time he spends outdoors--just can't control what he's coming in for--whether to just eat, or sleep. Even when he sleeps, he never makes it through the night--almost always wakes up about 2:30am, wants out & then comes back in later to sleep again, etc. Regarding sleeping on the property--he always did so in the past, which is why I mentioned this may be due to the weather, etc. He definitely feels safe on this property--knows every inch, put scent on every inch, is very territorial, notices any changes--even minute, etc. He stays in this yard at night--after he wakes up around 5pm and returns from next door, and stays here until the next morning when he goes to sleep next door for the day. I would love to break this sleeping next door habit but am unable --maybe it will change in warmer weather. Not sure if by "patterns," you're including indoor/outdoor practice, I believe I can't change that but am open to attempts to break other patterns--but maybe as you said, it won't work under these circumstances.

 

[Kwik]

Yes,that is what I meant - those are all part of his patterns

I understand how difficult this all is with it not being your property-they do make some really nice cat flaps thst fit inside a window frame with the window part open ahd adjustable widths- really nice,sturdy with good seals for insulation- perhaps you might be interested in SureFlap Dual scans to go with it- it's the only flap I know of that's racoon proof- you know those little " hands " and cunning little brains quickly figure out the way in is by lifting thd flap out towards them and viola!

I'm not sure you'd want to do all that and the DualScan adds alot of $$$ to the ambitious undertaking- buy it is an option for Babes and one that would not require any permanent type of construction,it simply slides in - I used to have one out to my enclosed patio in my single family home,and bought little window locks( pretty cool little gadgets) to secure my window locked in position halfway open

I'm being completely honest with you here,the problem is that no doubt he panics if you don't let him back out when he wants out and since your intention is not to keep him strictly indoors and you will eventually let him out at a certain point it will only duscourage him from coming inside- I tried many times throughout the years to gradually increase time inside with intention of slow transitioning,it just doesn't work thst way

8 months ago a colleague ( animal trainer)of mine was observing my " ex-feral and I " interacting as I was slowly reconditioning him to eating indoors- he commented saying " but I think it can work as you gradually increase his time inside " I replied " Sure thing,by the year 2030 he will be transitioned to my hallway" rofl

I wish I had better news for you but I don't- would your landlord permit any kind of outdoor catio,perhaps outside a window? Or do you not want Babes confined in any way?Like I said,I'm not trying to convince you of anything,obviously I'm not in favor of cats roaming at will - I would love to help you to have things more convenient and at the same time ensure Babes safety & longevity..... in my own minds perfect world

It's nice talking to you though,do you have any pets inside your home? Oh,almost forgot to mention its good to know Babes does enjoy your company ( thanks for elaborating)and on your property mainly until the change in weather...... it's very common for them to seek out where they are warmest in winter months- thsts why I asked if you ever considered a cat shelter & would your landlord permit a free standing " house " on his property?