Hooligan Update! I still need some help...

[melrai]

I have managed to get Hooligan to eat 1 raw meal out of 3! He's been doing great and really liking his Horse Chicken mixture. I have yet to introduce Organs, but he really seems to like chicken heart. 

What do you guys think about liver? I know some raw feeders from upon it. Hooligan doesn't like it very much, so I'm not sure exactly how I'll get him to eat it. I might try kidneys?

He's been doing pretty good the past couple days. He's been on the raw for about 3 days now. Just a couple minutes ago I heard the all the familiar sound and then found this: 

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• melrai
• Feb 14, 2013

That black blob is a gigantic hairball. Another one. All that other stuff is his Raw Chicken/Bone dinner. I mean, I'm trying not too worry to much, but with a puke like this - its hard not to. Has anyone gone through this? Anyone found hairballs this big? 

I won't be feeding him raw tomorrow. Just his canned, to get his stomach feeling alright. Next, I'll start the process of just meat - no bone. Let's see if that makes a difference. 

I would really love your opinions. 

Thanks!

 

[otto]

So glad he's eating it! So sorry he brought it back up. Whoa that's a lot of hair. Many of us have gone to egg yolk lecithin to control hairballs. We've learned that hairballs are made up mostly of fat, that's what binds the fur together, making it difficult or impossible for the cat to pass the fur through the way it is supposed to go. The egg yolk lecithin breaks down the fat, freeing the fur, and kitty's body is able to pass it through the digestive and excretory system.

How big of a meal was it? I know seeing the meal in reverse appearances can be deceiving, but that does look like a lot. Maybe smaller servings might work better for Hooligan?

 

[melrai]

I have been giving him egg yolk lecithin! I have been doing it for about a month or so now, and he gets it every day along with some probiotics. I have also started giving him slippery elm 3x a week. 

Maybe the egg yolk might need a little longer to work on him? He was eating kibble for about 6 years, so his digestive system is definitely not used to working this hard to digest the raw food. I mean, it makes sense but I am just so worried about the size of these hairballs!

 

[raintyger]

My kitty is long hair and she's gotten pretty big hairballs. What diameter are they? My kitty could've had one that big.

Did Hooligan eat too fast? It looks like mostly food and no digestive fluids. My kitty threw up like that once when I increased her food intake and she ate too fast.

 

[ldg]

Melissa, it looks like a rather large hairball, but there's no real perspective. How much food was fed at that meal?

And how often are hairballs that large coming up?

 

[goingpostal]

I would keep track of what meals he's yaking after, maybe there's a connection, my cat had some hairball pukes on raw but seemed like she was just adjusting to a new diet and it has tapered off considerably. 

 

[harleydiva]

When do hairballs usually start showing up??  My guys are 8,9, and 10 months old, and I've never seen a hairball.  They ate grain free canned foods from the time they came home until about 3 months ago when I switched them to an all raw diet.  Is it possible I won't see hairballs with the early switch to the raw diet???

 

[otto]

You might just not! Mazy started having hairball trouble when she was about 18 months old. And it was big trouble. I still tease her about her $400 hairball. :lol3: I laugh now but it was a scary time for both of us.

 

[melrai]

Melissa, it looks like a rather large hairball, but there's no real perspective. How much food was fed at that meal?

And how often are hairballs that large coming up?

Thankfully, these type of hairballs don't happen very often. They used to happen way more frequently, before I started the Slippery Elm, Probiotic and Egg Yolk Lecithin route. I would say, and this is a rough estimate, that they come up every month? I can't be sure though. 

I am going to start marking them down with they do, just so I can see some sort of pattern - if there is one. 

I gave him less than 1/4 of his .5 pound container of raw. It was his last meal of the day and it which chicken. I've also noticed that it seems to be coming up with the CO mix...when I gave him his Horse Chicken mix, no problem. 

Hm?

 

[melrai]

I would keep track of what meals he's yaking after, maybe there's a connection, my cat had some hairball pukes on raw but seemed like she was just adjusting to a new diet and it has tapered off considerably. 

I have just begun to. I am going to see what he pukes up and what he doesn't, I have a feeling it might be a connection with his raw chicken mix. 

 

[ldg]

OK, that's a GREAT idea. :nod: If you could keep track of what you feed him for a while, and what comes back up and when, that'll probably be really helpful. :nod:

Let's see.... I feed my cats 1.5 ounces at a meal. So 1/4 of half a pound is 2 ounces. So that's a pretty big hairball! Yeah, before raw, two of mine would hork up hairballs that large about once a month, but only during shedding and summer, really. One, I don't know what the issue is/was, but he got up less hairballs, smaller, on raw, and the egg yolk lecithin and SEB stopped it completely. The other kitty had a cancerous mass in his stomach, so his GI system is messed up and has motility issues, so different. But even for him, the EYL and SEB have stopped all hairballs.

I don't know what canned you were feeding him, but maybe it has a decent amount of fiber in it... in which case, if it's not related to a specific food, it might be he'll need the SEB more often than 3x a week? :dk:

 

[otto]

I keep a cat journal, I've been keeping one for almost 30 years. I record what they eat, how much, and when. I also record poops, regurgitations, hairballs, sneezed, eye gunk, nail trims, medications, and weights. It has been so helpful over the years. Often when a cat gets sick, looking back it can be very difficult to remember when things started going down hill. You'd be surprised how time gets distorted. For example, I might think "well her eye has been watering for a few days" only to check in the journal and see it has been two weeks, on and off.

It's also very helpful when looking for patterns. Heaven knows I've been pouring over my notebooks constantly over the past year trying to find patterns for Mazy cat's regurgitation.

It looks like this:

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• otto
• Feb 17, 2013

I have different color ink for different things, even. :lol3:

 

[melrai]

OK, that's a GREAT idea.

If you could keep track of what you feed him for a while, and what comes back up and when, that'll probably be really helpful.

Let's see.... I feed my cats 1.5 ounces at a meal. So 1/4 of half a pound is 2 ounces. So that's a pretty big hairball! Yeah, before raw, two of mine would hork up hairballs that large about once a month, but only during shedding and summer, really. One, I don't know what the issue is/was, but he got up less hairballs, smaller, on raw, and the egg yolk lecithin and SEB stopped it completely. The other kitty had a cancerous mass in his stomach, so his GI system is messed up and has motility issues, so different. But even for him, the EYL and SEB have stopped all hairballs.

I don't know what canned you were feeding him, but maybe it has a decent amount of fiber in it... in which case, if it's not related to a specific food, it might be he'll need the SEB more often than 3x a week?

It was a pretty mighty one! I think he horks them up that large so frequently in the winter because grooms out of anxiety. And she grooms Ruby also, so that doesn't help very much. He was having these giant ones way more often before I started the Egg Yolk Lecithin, so it is working! 

I'm feeding Instinct Canned, Rabbit Formula: http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/rabbit <-- that one! Maybe huh? Maybe I'd need to up the SEB when I feed him his raw a little more regularly? I wonder...

 

[melrai]

I have different color ink for different things, even.

Whoa! This is such a good idea! I never thought of going that intricate on the details, ie: watery eyes, sneezes, etc etc
I'm definitely going to start this tomorrow, it looks great. 

Thanks for the advice!

 

[raintyger]

I have different color ink for different things, even.

I second the journal recommendation. Right now, I am using a day planner to make quick notes in and then transferring figures to an Excel spreadsheet. I record stuff like how many urine clumps there are per day, urine pH, and poop. I'm dealing with a constipation issue right now, and the journal was really  useful. After 1 week of meds I could see Poppy started off fine, but then was gravitating back to the constipation pattern. I called the vet and asked if I should change meds. Not sure if I would've noticed a pattern otherwise.

 

[ldg]

OK, that NV is 3% fiber. Not a lot, but a little with every meal. Cats with healthy GI systems shouldn't NEED fiber - but there's clearly something going on here. I'm not saying he'll permanently need fiber or anything, and I REALLY think the journal is the way to go. I mean - for all we know, it's related to one of the proteins or something. :dk: (Though large hairballs usually aren't an allergy. :lol3: They're a motility issue, which is why fiber can help). But... :dk: :scratch:

 

[melrai]

OK, that NV is 3% fiber. Not a lot, but a little with every meal. Cats with healthy GI systems shouldn't NEED fiber - but there's clearly something going on here. I'm not saying he'll permanently need fiber or anything, and I REALLY think the journal is the way to go. I mean - for all we know, it's related to one of the proteins or something.

(Though large hairballs usually aren't an allergy.

They're a motility issue, which is why fiber can help). But...

If I give him his raw + the SEB with his meals, shouldn't that be enough fiber? If he has another, I'm quite unsure what to do next...Carolina mentioned that, since on raw his acid juices and digestion is are better, the hairballs that are coming out are from when he was eating his kibble for 6 years. Since he had a lazy gut before, it's all coming up now...now that it is finally working...

I'm going to be starting a meal of raw again tonight - see how it takes it! I'll also start my journal, it just sounds like the best idea!