Considering the transition

[cprcheetah]

So I have 5 kitties that I have tried to transition to raw in the past but had no success. I have 4 of them on canned food, 1 is a kibble addict and I don't know if she could eat raw as she has Cerebral Hypoplasia and bobs a lot (kind of like a pecking chicken) when she eats.  I haven't been able to transition her to canned, I don't think she likes bobbing in the wetness of the food.  I do know my siamese boy cannot tolerate any raw beef, when I divy up ground beef, I sometimes drop tid bits for the kitties and if he gets even the tiniest piece about 30 min to an hour later he pukes.  I do think I have one that will transition now, whereas before she wouldn't, as I drop tidbits when I'm preparing my dogs raw (she's been on raw for 3 years) and Cedes goes absolutely nuts for it, screaming and pawing the cupboards for more.  I know one question my hubby has is will it be cheaper to feed raw than canned food?  I know my chihuahua is more expensive to feed raw as a 4# bag of food for $20 would last her 6 months.  What about bones?  Will they readily eat them?  Do you feed ground bones or just give them whole?  I feed my chihuahua cornish hens for her boney pieces (she's only 4#) and can't eat chicken legs or wings.  Do you do whole prey?  I have access to dead mice.   Are cats the same in their needs of about 2% of their body weight?  Any special considerations for a Geriatric cat (14 years old)? 

 

[ldg]

Welcome! I hope we can help. :cross:

My kitties were mostly older when we transitioned. They'd been free-fed kibble for 7 years, with a "meal" or two of canned food (I didn't monitor how much food they ate - of the dry or wet, but used wet food, which they liked, to add water to the diet. 3 of the boys had blocked, and everyone was on prescription c/d, both dry and wet).

We rescued our last rescue, Chumley. He had allergies, and the food had to change. Billy and Ming Loy were fat from not self-regulating. In the end, we sought out a holistic vet, who discussed the problems with kibble, and basically insisted we transition off kibble ASAP. The canned we used was expensive: EVO, Wellness, Ziwipeak, Weruva, Nature's Variety. I really don't remember what else, but as we'd been using prescription food, it wasn't a huge difference.

I used to argue against feeding raw here ( :anon: ), but finally, I started researching what was IN cat food. Then I couldn't make the switch quick enough. :lol3: So the cats were on an all-canned diet for a little over a year when we transitioned to raw. The youngest was either 5 or 6; most were basically 10.

The switch to raw is about a lot of things: the relative lack of taste, different textures and temperature.

As to cost: whether or not it costs less depends on what you're feeding now. Yes, the 2% of the bodyweight is a typical amount needed. I have several cats that eat less than that, so it really just depends on activity and metabolism.

It costs us less to feed raw than canned; again, it really depends on which canned you're using.

Are you feeding your chihuahua prey model raw?

I'm feeding my kitties an adaptation of PMR: I do it without bones: I use eggshell as a bone alternative. I also use MCHA, which is freeze dried bone as opposed to bone meal. It's expensive; it costs a lot less to use just eggshell powder. I have a few that chomp bones, and once a week or so I feed them a quarter quail; at times chicken wings. But only 5 of my 8 eat any real bone, and one of them can't be relied on to eat it. I do give them gizzards as meals for their teeth, but I rely on dentals at the vet for their dental health. For us, raw is simply about better nutrition.

Some of my cats are good with chewing; others aren't. Billy gets his meals as one chunk of meat; Spooky will eat it only if minced. Some get long thin strips; others get bite sized pieces. I made a lot of adaptations for what each cat will and won't eat. I put up a thread with pictures... that I'm not finding. I'll see if I can find it later. :lol3:

I used commercial raw to transition. I only had access to Nature's Variety frozen raw and Vital Essentials. And I found out really quickly my cats got bored of the same protein.

For your CH kitty, I would think she'd do fine with boneless PMR with her pieces of meat cut into bite-sized chunks or strips. Have you ever offered her a small bite of meat? Because the easiest way to transition a die-hard kibble addict is to make a pea-sized piece of ground raw or small pea-sized bit of meat, and roll it in crushed kibble. Make a few of these, and put it in the kibble dish at meal time. Not mixed in, but next to the kibble. It took over a month for one of Carolina's cats to lick at the kibble on the raw - but once THAT took place, the transition didn't take long. Sally did the same (mrsgreenjeens) - and again, it was one of those situations where persistence pays off.

For the others, if you want to go PMR, then I'd suggest mincing the meat and just mixing maybe 1/8 of a teaspoon into their current wet food (and reducing the wet by a 1/8 of a teaspoon). This may work for some: if, like other kitties, some may refuse to eat "adulterated" food. :lol3: If you want to use ground (whether commercial or homemade), the principle is the same.

The real trick is to simply have patience. Very small amounts, very slowly. Get tricky about how it's presented, or what it's covered with; whether it goes IN the food or NEXT to the food (or on a separate plate next to their food dish!). In the end, it's simply about desensitizing them to the presence of the new food - and then to get them associating the food AS food.

 

[cprcheetah]

Thank you for your information.  I feed my chihuahua prey model raw.  I make up a mix that has the organs hidden in it (I can't get her to eat them otherwise) and she gets that every day, then she gets a cornish hen boney piece 2x a week.  I don't think bones will be a problem for my boy Munchie, he already digs chicken bones out of the trash and eats the ends off them.  Actually I don't think I have ever offered Mini Dee my CH girl a piece of meat, I will have to give that a try and see what she does with it.  I know for canned food all she will do is lick the juice off of it.  How do I handle my boy Munchie who can't tolerate beef?  Do I just skip that meat for him?

 

[ldg]

I have a kitty that can't tolerate beef. At first he would throw up one bite - immediately. I just gave him no beef for a while. When he was eating raw pretty well, I tried again. He was able to keep a bite down IF it was fed with a poultry. I just slowly worked him up to where he is now - he can eat a meal that is 50% beef / 50% poultry 2 years into raw feeding. :lol3:

His issue is any red meat: venison, lamb, beef. Though he can keep down rabbit and pork, so I guess they're not as "red."

Found the thread of how I make the organ meal (with pictures): http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264489/making-a-meal-pictures

It also explains how I manage those who won't eat certain organs (or any organs).

Ming Loy is our CH kitty. And yes, she bobs her head into her food. But she LOVES food so much, she never let that stop her from eating wet food. :lol3:

 

[cprcheetah]

Thank you so much for the information. You have really helped out a lot.  I do know that my one cat Mercedes LOVES turkey liver (as my hubby gave her some from thanksgiving), she was the only one who would eat it though.  I really think she's going to be the easiest to transition as I said before she goes nuts for tidbits and paws the crap out of me and my cupboards when I'm preparing my dogs food.

 

[cprcheetah]

We may be switching at least DeeJay right away, she is becoming so picky with eating canned I am at a loss of what to do.  So I defrosted (in water) a boneless chicken thigh to give her and got her to eat 3 or 4 dime sized pieces before she walked off.  Of course I had to share with everyone and they all ate 2 or 3 pieces of it, Munchie went and ate the pieces that DeeJay didn't finish.  I am just so frustrated with her not eating.  I don't want her to get fatty liver, but I guess as long as she is eating something that's better than nothing.

 

[peaches08]

They ate some plain chicken thigh meat and walked off? That's a great start!

 

[cprcheetah]

They ate some plain chicken thigh meat and walked off? That's a great start!

Yep everyone but my CH Kitty had some.  They each ate a couple of pieces. 

 

[cprcheetah]

Just tried feeding DeeJay some more chicken thigh, she ate about 5 dime sized pieces before losing interest.  This is progress.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Tht's pretty good

Mine took FOREVER to learn what real meat was

 

[cprcheetah]

She is only eating maybe 1oz of canned food now, I gave her a bunch of chicken thigh for breakfast that she ate readily.  My concern is with adding the supplements, she is one smart kitty and KNOWS if I try to add anything additional to her food, she will refuse it, so how do I add the necessary supplements to keep the raw diet balanced?

 

[ldg]

I added one thing at a time, but I use eggshell, salmon oil, and a home-made supplement. Some use Alnutrin with calicum. Does she like egg yolk? If so, there shouldn't be a problem if you want to use the Alnutrin with calcium to balance the meat and liver.

I just ... adjusted, given what each cat would and wouldn't eat.

None of them, not even my pickiest, even notices the eggshell. It takes 1/32 teaspoon to balance one ounce of meat. I use these measuring spoons to balance the stuff needed at the meal:
The one marked "smidgeon" is 1/32 teaspoon (the 2nd smallest one).

You can either make eggshell powder or buy it. It's quite easy to make, if you eat eggs or feed the cats eggs (or egg yolks). Just rinse the shells, and bake them at 300 or so for 20 minutes. The point is just to get them REALLY dry. (You can also just set them on a pie plate in the sun, but it takes longer). Then run them in a REALLY CLEAN coffee grinder OR a magic bullet or something. Let it settle for 10 - 20 minutes. Make it as finely ground as you can. Or just buy the Alnutrin supplement with calcium, the Alnutrin supplement with eggshell - or just the eggshell powder: http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/shop_online.html

I don't know how much Alnutrin with calcium or how much Alnutrin with eggshell powder it takes per ounce, I've never used them. When I started feeding raw, there was only the Alnutrin (without calcium) supplement and the eggshell powder.

I make my own homemade vitamin supplement to make it balanced. Many people feeding PMR, if kitty is eating the organs, don't supplement. They use egg yolks and sardines for most vitamins needed (though the diet may still be short in iodine, vitamin E, and taurine, if you're not feeding hearts). Some supplement with at least 250mg of taurine a day.

But start with balancing at least just the calcium.

If you use Alnutrin (with calcium or with eggshell), you still need to feed liver.

You may have seen: I have one cat that won't eat any of the premix type supplements, and won't eat even freeze dried liver. I pill her with a specific amount of cod liver oil daily to ensure she gets her vitamin A. (She doesn't like the cod liver oil, or I would just squeeze it onto her food).

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I know how much Alnutrin with Calcium to use per ounce, and how much Alnutrin with eggshell powder.  If you need that info, I can get it, just don't happen to have it handy at the moment.  There's also Call of the Wild, which can be used in place of liver AND bones.  some cats really like it, some don't.  It's made by Wysong, and if you call them, they will send you a free sample.  That way you can see if DeeJay likes it.  Does she like FortiFlora?  What I have found is that if a cat likes FortiFlora, they like Call of the Wild.  But my survey isn't too scientific since I only have a sampling of three cats

@LDG has EIGHT cats, and some of hers like Call of the Wild and some don't.  Maybe she can take a survey and compare it to FortiFlora and see if hers matches mine

 

[ldg]

All of my cats like Fortiflora, and 7 of the 8 will eat CoTW. But 4 eat anything. Spooky hates CoTW.

So... :dk:

:lol3: